Interesting article, thanks!

Am I the only one who thought of Chris Sanders first after reading this?  Is this what Mr. Norman meant by "Today, I see the Disney Company making some of the same mistakes that were made in the 1970s?"

I have been a staunch defender of John & Ed's new policies at WDAS, but Sanders' departure from Disney was the one that really disappointed me.  Why not let the Chris Sanders-Dean Debois (sp?) team try their hand at American Dog?   Sorta like what Walt did with Ward Kimball?  I do understand that story is king, and I even agree that Lilo & Stitch, one of my Disney favorites, had story holes - but the movie oozed charm all over the place and it carried the film.  I'd like to think American Dog would have done the same, just looking at the artwork already in place.  

I'm sure Bolt will have a good story, but I can't say I'm not disappointed that Sanders' original vision for American Dog will never be seen on the big screen.  I wouldn't have been against letting Sanders have his "Ward Kimball" moment out in theaters every four years.

And you know what ... the same needs to go for the people greenlighting what gets built in the themeparks.

Quit playing it safe Disney. Poeple want more than blatant mass marketing.

In some ways, I'm amazed that Ward Kimball survived -- but we know there were times when he was given god-awful assignments and times he felt the boss' wrath. It seems like Walt was loyal to those who showed him loyalty ...

One of those artists Floyd was no doubt talking about being let go in the '70s (more likely early '80s) was John Lasseter, the very man the company is looking to revive WDFA today.

I don't know if we'll ever hear the complete backstory about any individual who is let go or leaves the company, whether it be Chris Sanders, Jan Pinkava or anyone else. It's also safe to say that everyone associated with those separations has his/her own take on the matter -- their own "truth."

According to Glen Keane, after John was fired from Disney and started to make a name for himself and Pixar, the Mouse made a few attempts to get him back. His talents and skills were far more evident to the suits after the first few Pixar shorts and a few features than when he was working as an in-betweener at WDFA. We all know that getting John back in the fold ultimately required a shakeup in management and Disney buying Pixar from Steve Jobs.

During Walt's life, Chuck Jones left Disney and did quite well. So did Maurice Noble and others. I'd argue that Chuck Jones made more of a name for himself at Warner Bros. than he would have as Walt's 10th, 11th or 12th old man.

It's always a bit sad when collaborative efforts break down -- especially over artistic differences -- when EVERYONE does or should share the same ultimate goal of creating something extraordinary. There's no reason to villify anyone. I don't know any supervisor or boss who takes pleasure in letting people go unless there's major justification for doing so. I think that's especially true when the person doing the firing has been fired himself.

Still, it's not the end of the world. Sanders is working for Dreamworks and Pinkava is working at Lucasfilm -- based on what I've read and heard. Both will continue to create -- and, it's possible, that they might find more success on their new paths OR the paths they're on may re-intersect with WDFA/Pixar in the future.

Even Walt understood that a failure provides lessons for personal growth.

How do you think things would look today is Minkoff hadn't taken Oswalt away and hired most of Disney's artists? Do you think Disney would have found success without Ub Iwerks? Would the world know Walt had he not been an innovator who embraced sound, technicolor and other advancements?

It's Oswald ... and I know that ...D'oh!

Walt let more than a few mavericks get away:

• Art Babbitt

• Grim Natwick

• Bill Tytla

Then Ron Miller let a few more slip through his fingers:

• Don Bluth

• Tim Burton

• John Lasseter

Who can truly say how the studio would have done if all these people had stayed in place?

At least they brought Ron & Jon back into the fold.

Actually, the "crazy ideas" can still sometimes be bluntly wrong.  The problem in Disney was that the counter to the crazy idea wasn't an artistic argument, it was a business decision.  Crazy ideas improve things because other artists with just *slightly* less "crazy" in them mellow them out and keep the gem of it alive while still making it accessable and fit within a framework.

But only if they're allowed to do that within the art.

It's when the crazy idea is rejected or tempered by the business manager, insisting that they know what the audience wants or will accept, that the replacement inevitably fails to be as interesting.

In their Aspen Hill, CO reunion a few years back, Monty Python's Terry Gilliam said that the only criteria for a sketch or even just a line in one to make it into the final show was did 6 guys, the Pythons themselves, find it funny.  There were no producers, no managers, no executives, no committees, no marketing "experts".  Just 6 creative guys in a room trying to humor themselves.

mnmears - good points.  There'd be no Mickey Mouse without Oswalt being taken away.  Lasseter staying at Disney might not have brought him to Ed Catmull, and Pixar would cease to exist.  It all works out.  In fact, Sanders might be able to show off his art much better under DreamWorks than if he stayed under Disney (have you seen his website?  There will be none of that in Disney, that's for sure).  Still, being that I am biased, it would have been nice to see what he could have come up with under the Disney logo.

Thanks for another insightful article Mr. Norman.

Keep 'em coming!

Most folks who disparage Disney for being culturally obtuse miss the fact that Walt was wildly experimental during the company's early days.  It was only after darn-near losing his company that Walt started making films that were increasingly-more like previous, successful formulas.

I wonder if this idea of a "Disney style" would exist if the Walt of the thirties--the guy who was successfully challenging the medium and his team--would have met success with his products of the early forties, namely Fantasia, Bambi, and Pinocchio.  

If the world had embraced these dramatically-different films, if the ensuing war, the losses from these films, and the frustration of the strike had not chased the company into doing training films, government work, and package films...what would the Disney style have been?

Bald Melon Tim:

Thanks for that list ... I knew about Art Babbitt and that's why I included the line that Walt seemed to be loyal to those who were loyal to him.

With his role in the strike, Babbitt really angered the big cheese and I think Walt's relationship with many of the creative talents changed after the unionization.

The idea of the studio employees being part of a family took a serious hit -- at least it seems so through the actions of its patriarch, Walt. I don't think Walt ever fully recovered from what he considered a betrayal -- although I believe that he came awfully close with the smaller group of creatives he cast to join him at WED.

In the early days, there were several pool parties and barbecues at the Disney family home well attended by artists and others from the studio. We've all heard stories about the more generous Walt in those early days -- rewarding Ward Kimball or someone else for a creative gag and paying out bonuses to the whole studio after the success of "Snow White."

Yes, it it was Ron Miller who let Lasseter, Burton and Bluth go -- although in the work-in-progress "The Pixar Story" by Leslie Iwerks, a couple of people including Glen Keane and Lasseter recount Lasseter's separation/firing from WDFA without specifically mentioning Miller. It's actually handled with class -- no one is out to villify Diane's husband and Walt's "son."

Actually, I hope that Miller's story is eventually documented and told, because I think too many people gave Michael Eisner credit for policies and things started by Ron Miller. I know that I spent plenty of Saturdays in the theater watching films produced by Miller -- along with those classic Disney animated hits reissued every 7 years.

Miller created the Touchstone division for more adult fare: "Splash," "Down and Out in Beverly Hills," and other films. The home video releases were started under Miller's tenure. He kept animation alive with "The Fox & The Hound," "The Black Cauldron" and others. I remember massive projects at Disneyland, like "Space Mountain," "Big Thunder Mountain Railroad," etc.

BMT, I do agree that it was good to see Ron Clements and John Musker return to WDFA so quickly after Ed Catmull and John Lasseter were put in charge ...

Now, if they would only green-light "Fraidy Cat," which sounded absolutely wonderful. Is there something wrong with using a backdoor tribute to expose children to the master of suspense Alfred Hitchcock?

I don't know anyone over 30 who hasn't seen "Psycho," "Rear Window," "The Birds" or some other great Hitchcock film. These are classics, too.

"Am I the only one who thought of Chris Sanders first after reading this?"

Hell no! Chris Sanders seems to be the one Disney artist today, I'm sure there's a few more, who doesn't conform to the "Disney" style, but as we saw with Lilo & Stitch, creates excellent concepts with his unique talent. It's still too early to tell if Bolt (a.k.a. American Dog) will suffer from his absence.

This article, the smartest I've read in awhile, immediately crushes John Kricfalusi's critiques he's made countless times about Disney's old and new artists.

Livergap, I just checked out Sander's sight, and the work is really good.

Def. not Disney, but it's good.

Thanks.

I think that Ward Kimball would habe been an interesting man to meet. I'm not an artist, but I am a railfan and it was through Trains Magazine that I first heard the name Ward Kimball. I wish I could have rode on his railroad. I just thought it was so cool that somebody had a full size steam railroad in his back yard.

The trick is keep budgets down when you're producing film for a public company. I'd suggest having a look at what those guys on Avatar are doing on a tv budget. I say shoot for lean, mean, and daring.

Hey there mnmears,

I enjoyed your perspective. I just wanted to be clear, I wasn't trying to judge the actions of Ron Miller. He made good and bad decisions just like every exec.

Burton would have likely left the studio no matter who was in charge. He was a creative square peg. Bluth wouldn't have been happy there unless he was in charge (at least that's my take). Bluth's exit (and success with Spielberg) gave Disney the kick in the seat of the pants to start their second Golden Age of animation. Lasseter's exit... well, we all know that story. And I am looking forward to what Sanders will launch out with.

My only point was that there is a good sized history of very creative people making their way through the revolving doors at Disney. Many go on to have substantial careers of note, some of them, we will never know their names.

(Tytla's story has to be the saddest, though. Torn between loyalty to Walt and his artists in arms, he chose to strike. That rift sealed his fate with Walt.)

...oh and I can't believe I failed to mention the incomparable Bill Peet!

BMT,

I didn't mean to imply you were judging Ron Miller. Actually, since I grew up in the era when Miller was running the studios, I simply like to see his name mentioned. I'm afraid he might become not much more than a footnote in the company's history -- and that would be a shame since he had a considerable career at Disney.

Imagine the stories Miller's not told or rarely spoken about. I've met him a few times. He's an awfully nice guy -- a bit shy, private, reserved -- but he has a great laugh, a nice smile, and he certainly seems to enjoy his life and giving Diane a good hug or hold her hand in photos.

Miller directed episodes of the Mickey Mouse Club, Walt's introductions to the Wonderful World of Disney, was the producer on several films and ran the company until Eisner came along. I do think that Eisner has been credited for some of the things that Miller instituted.

He certainly didn't line his pockets with hundreds of millions of dollars or get the golden handshake that was given Eisner -- I know it's a different era, but I don't have to like the outrageous compensation packages that CEOs across the country are collecting as the benefits and buying power of middle-class grunts (at Disney, that would be the castmembers who are responsible for the magic) continues to shrink.

I do agree that it's a mixed bag with every CEO, every corporate officer. There are good decisions and bad ones. I expect Bob Iger, Steve Jobs (who has had a few flops), John Lasseter, Ed Catmull to make some mistakes -- but the track record is pretty darn good so far.

Floyd, from the moment I saw the description of this article, I wanted to say -"Thank you!" :)

Aside from just loving any tidbit about Disney history, I'm also an aspiring graphic artist with animation-industry aspirations who has, if I do say so myself, my own style. Reading this kind of thing gives me a lot of hope that there may actually possibly potentially someday be a place for me out there in Animationland :).