Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:18:29 GMT

Thanks for a more balanced article than your previous Pixar-bashing ones. (Wonder if it has anything to do with someone from Pixar instead of Disney actually talking to you.) Though Wall-E sounds wonderful to me and I'll be there on the first day, I also can't wait to see what Pixar does with the new live/CGI projects.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:24:21 GMT

Very good article, and raised some good points on both sides.

Both of those live action films sound very promising, especially 1906.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:52:05 GMT

Yes, I think that Pixar needs to expand into live action. I think it's a very smart move. I hope that the Pixar folks don't ever swallow the "brand fatigue" thing. That's a bunch of baloney in my opinion. Not every film is gonna have a "Finding Nemo" result. Remember that Disney lost money on all the big films after "Snow White." (Due to circumstances beyond their control) That's life...so move on.

Now as for getting people out to the theatres, I admit that I'm one who waits for the DVD. But not for reasons one may expect. I usually don't like going to the theatre. I used to be a projectionist too! One of my fellow workers was shot and killesd at the theatre by a guy they had thrown out of the theatre warlier in the day. I hate the rudeness of people in theatres so I usually stay away from them.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:58:10 GMT

Floyd Norman: If you are reading todays postings; I just want to congradulate you on being honored as a "Disney Legend." I saw your picture in a local newspaper and you sure looked like you had a great time. I hope all of your family was able to be present.

Blessings and best wishes to you and your family,

Warren Crandall

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 03:06:26 GMT

A well written article Jim, although I can't help but point out the irony that you inadvertently contribute to that negative press about Pixar's grosses despite your intentions. I still think that a lot of the blame for Ratatouille's grosses should fall back on Disney Marketing because they seemed to be advertising it as just another "furry animal" movie. My sister loves Pixar movies and even she as reluctant to see it at first because it was just another talking critter movie. I was talking with a guest about it and WALL-E the other day and she was telling me how excited her son was watching the new trailer because it seemed like Pixar was making a movie with their trademark magic in it and how Ratatouille didn't seem to have it from the trailers. I gotta admit she had a point. Finding Nemo had some of the best trailers ever and Ratatouille just well... didn't. And no I don't blame the story for that. If marketing can't sell a movie as brilliant as Ratatouille then they shouldn't be in the business. And maybe if Disney treated its movies with a little more synergy... I mean how is it that the Food and Wine festival only has the Ratatouille display in the front of Epcot and we can't find the characters inside? France? Helllllo? Doesn't take a genius. Maybe if Ratatouille came out now instead of the Gameplan the company would see some REAL event marketing instead of throwing it up against a movie based on a line of TOYS!

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 04:48:45 GMT

Good article, though Jim, or anyone really, isn't IMAX a good thing? I mean it isn't like a sales gimmick or anything is it? I'd think that having a sci-fi CGI movie would warrant an IMAX release with all the effects and such.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 05:05:58 GMT

I think the comment made about people just waiting for the DVD is very justified. While I would never miss a Pixar movie in the theatre I was perfectly happy to wait for both Chicken Little and Robinsons to be released on DVD, and this year took the same approach and with Shrek 3, Die Hard 4, Pirates 3 and many of the big releases. Sometimes it's a matter of can i get the the cinema to see the movie (I did plan on seeing Pirates 3 but it just never happenned), but sometimes it is just a matter of thinking it'll be out on DVD in a couple of months, I'll just wait for that.

That said, Ratatouille was finally released here int he UK on Friday, we went to the 11am showing at our local Saturday morning and the place was almost full; that's got to be a good sign. We went to the same early morning showing of the Simpsons the day after it's release and the theatre was pretty much empty. So hopefully thats a sign that the Rat will be getting a very strong box office here.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 05:21:22 GMT

Jim's grosses for Ratatouille are a bit dated.

From Variety (10/16)

---------------------------------------------------------

"Ratatouille" opened solidly in the U.K. with $9.8 million at 400 and stayed strong in its German soph sesh, declining just 22% to $6 million -- in each case, taking in more than the combined grosses of all other pics in the top 10. The Mouse waited until the fall to take advantage of the disappearance of summer tentpoles and opted to position the pic to take advantage of school holidays in the U.K.

"Ratatouille" also won via holdovers in Austria, Denmark, Greece, Norway and Switzerland as the foreign cume hit $271.4 million.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

As the film pushes towards $500 million on $150 million production budget (via boxofficemojo.com), I'm thinking a lot of studios out there would be pretty happy with that kind of "disappointment".

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:53:50 GMT

Well, there you have it Jim.

With Spyres post giving you the current updated foreign box-office receipts, "Ratatouille"s total world-wide gross is at least $475 million (and still counting!)

Hey, wait a minute...Didn't Cars only make $461 million worldwide?

Can we finally stop talking about this downward trend?

Jim, you must have known that "Ratatouille" was opening in several foreign markets this past weekend, adding to it's total worldwide gross...and you must also know that it's opening next weekend in Italy, adding to it even more ...but that wouldn't have helped you make your point of a slow-but-steady-erosion or a downward trend, would it?

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 08:41:34 GMT

Will they still be called Pixar Animation Studios when they release live-action films?

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:42:20 GMT

I think you see more and more of the "home theater" impact in the US, and moreso with family films, where the ankle biters miss some of the movie to go to the bathroom, refill their tub of popcorn, etc.

The other way I see it as an American phenomenon is in the worldwide grosses. Most family films now make 60 -65% of their box office oversees, as opposed to the US. Fewer Americans are visiting the multiplexes for the family-style film.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:04:22 GMT

I am waiting for the DVD. Though I love to see Pixar animation on the big screen, I figured this film might have the same impact on my TV as it would on the over-inflated cinema experience. There is much truth about the speculated DVD reasoning.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:20:42 GMT

First off, I can't understand why people are giving Disney marketing a hard time on this one. I'd say they actually made some great decisions on how to market a movie that Brad Bird admitted would be hard to market.

I have a feeling that when Bee Movie comes out, we'll see what the public really thinks about Pixar's brand name appeal. As good as Bee Movie looks, I don't see it getting close to any of Pixar's movie grosses.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:29:15 GMT

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117973938.html?categoryId=1278&cs=1

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:53:59 GMT

The DVD thing is partly true, but there are two things that come to my mind. One is this is the excuse Disney made when their last 2-D movies came out - that DVDs were hurting their sales. Second, that's true with all movies these days. And it was true about the first Pixar movies, but people go out to see those special movies they want to see on the big screen. People went to see Pixar movies when they were event movies. Cars and Rat. just haven't felt like event movies (I loved them both, but they weren't movies I HAD to see in the theater).

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:23:19 GMT

To echo Tuckenie's comments...how in the world are they not serving ratatouille at the France pavillion right now??? It's absurd. The problem is that Ratatouille is by far the most "adult" of the Pixar films. Sure, I as a 25 year old film buff and foodie was drooling over the movie, but how many 8 year olds can claim the same?

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:33:46 GMT

I think Ratatouille may have suffered from being in the middle of a summer of The Simpsons, Pirates 3, Spiderman 3, Harry Potter 5, Shrek 3, etc.

Look at the money its making round the world right now - clearly a delay in Europe was a great idea and its going to make quite a bit more than Cars did in total. Considering they are about to start work on Cars 2, I think they will be very impressed by that.

One of the reasons Pixar greenlighted it was they knew it would do well internationally, which would be critical in getting people in to see their first post-Disney release.

Most people in America are probably just waiting for the DVD. I think they should have recognised that a new pixar film was always going to struggle domestically in summer 2007.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:43:25 GMT

I agree that many people wait for the DVD to be released before seeing films these days, and that has affected "Ratatouille"s box-office somehwat ...but there are several other facors at work here.

The marketing for this film was nothing like 'Cars' or even 'The Incredibles'. The Disney suits even admitted not knowing how to market this movie, but, again, on the day it premiered here in NYC at the Ziegfeld Theatre, I strolled over to the 'World of Disney' store only a few short blocks away, and there wasn't one Window Display advertising "Ratatouille" to the 5th Aveneue traffic. I would have thought that would have been a no-brainer. Also, have you tried looking for "Ratatouille" merchandise? It is almost non-existent. On the opening day, there was a small fixture with some items, and when I went back a few weeks later, there was even less.

It seems Disney was almost setting themselves up for failure because they didnt foresee this film to do particularly well, so why invest in all the merchandise?

But they should know that the merchandise itself is great promotion!

Also, this was a fiercely competitive summer, with 7 of the top ten movies this year either being sequels (Shrek The Third, Spiderman 3, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End) or spin-offs from other sources (Transformers, The Simpson's Movie). Is there any originality out there anymore?

On that note, I think it's a very sad state of affairs that the top 4 movies so far this year here in the United States is this mediocre slop, looking to make money instead of providing first-rate entertainment... and what is sadder is that the American public buys into it...but what can you expect from a generation being raised on Dancing with the Stars, Britney Spears, American Idol, Paris Hilton, America's Top Model, Big Brother, etc (and trust me, we're only a stone's throw away from these shows being turned into movies themselves).

I really feel that the masses (the American Public imparticular) have lost sight of what genuine entertainment is... and in the absence of genuine entertainment, they will watch anything that they are given and think they are enjoying it.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:39:45 GMT

I believe that live action films will not so much help the "brand trouble" Pixar is having. But I do think that live action starpower combined with Pixar's crafty storytelling could produce very popular films. That could provide Pixar with the financial freedom to keep producing animated features.

As for the brand hurdle, it will only take one good Pixar animated features to rejuvinate their trackrecord. The only reason I feel Pixar may some credit with their audience and the press is because Cars sucked. That, along with the viable arguments of gas prices and a busy box office, accounts for the mediocre financial result that Ratatouille booked.

They'll be back in business after Ratatouille is released to DVD, more people watch this picture perfect film and will be psyched for more, more that Wall-E will surely deliver.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:51:13 GMT

I would love to see Pixar expand into live action films. I don't think it is something necessary they need to do though. The Pixar brand is still strong. They're just not going to have massive hits all the time. That's reality.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:07:08 GMT

Diz...

the gong show and battle of the network stars comes to mind but ehh, if i go further i will start to show my age. Just want to say that variety shows have been around a lot longer that the last decade. in fact the same themes have been used and are just now presented differently.

sure theres some new stuff....i get your point.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:09:03 GMT

I think that Pixar is wrong in not using "gimmicks".

I saw Meet the Robinsons in 3D and I LOVED it. BUT I suspect that some of that had to do with the 3D effect (something by the way that I can't get on my 60" HDTV at home). IMAX, 3D, etc make a movie required viewing at the theatre since no one has those technologies at home.

I RARELY go to the theatre because I have a 5 year old and a 2 year old. Going to the theatre with them is nearly impossible and VERY painful. So yes, I usually wait for the DVD.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:18:55 GMT

Thanks Jim, for a much more balanced article.

The problem with calling Rat a 'Huge Success'. Is how different people define the word success. You hollywood insiders define it as how much money it makes, and us average Joes look at the quality of the movie.

Its a fact that this movie didnt do as well as it should have. Especially with the great reviews. And while I think marketing played a huge part, I think the common thought about CG animated movies these days is "eh". When Toy Story first came out the public perception was very positive for CG movies. But since every company besides Disney, has gotten their hand in just trying to make a quick couple million, instead of producing great films, the public is on overkill with CG. Its not special anymore to go see a pixar film, because people assume it wont be any different then all the other CG movies, and it'll be cheaper and easier to see them at home.

I think DVD sales for Rat will go nuts. And maybe Pixar will have a better shot with Wall*E, once everyone and their brother see's how this movie is so much more than a talking rat.

And speaking of talking rats... I think some dead billionare once said 'My only hope is that we never lose sight of one thing, that it was all started by a mouse'

Quality will prevail, and Pixar knows that. Dont forget, Disney is just coming back into A.)Being an incredibly successfull tourist destination post 9/11 and B.)Finally listening to the guests instead of the stockholders, as far as what people want to see in the Theaters, the parks and online. With Enchanted, The Frog Princess, and the mairiad of other Disney movies comes out, I think public perception of the Walt Disney Company and Pixar will change and improve and get people to realize that seeing a DISNEY (PIXAR) movie in a theater IS an event in itself.

maybe i have rose colored glasses on, but Im really hopeful.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:33:06 GMT

I think Brad Bird was including Jim Hill Media when he made that first comment you printed.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:46:42 GMT

I'm not totally sure about the "wait-til-the-DVD" thing, otherwise Shrek III wouldn't have made as much money as it did.

If we're only focusing on Ratatouille not making as much money as Finding Nemo, which to me, is a self-destructive goal of long-term success, it's NON-disappointment had a lot to do with the marketing, which wasn't completely honest about the theme of the movie. Ratatouille was nothing like the run-of-the-mill CGI films that has been made recently.

That's why I'm betting on Wall-E to do much better, since Pixar is in control of the marketing. Once people get the idea that it's NOT copying anybody, they may be more inclined in see it when it comes out.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:47:48 GMT

AS FAR AS BY-PASSING THE THEATER FOR THE DVD . . .

Everyone had better get used to it. That's going to be the trend. Fifteen years ago, I told people that movies would go the way of publishing. A limited number of people by the hardcover editions of books, and the mass audience where they make the most money buys in paperback. Theater is the hardcover, DVD (or whatever the home entertainment media becomes) is the paperback.

The home experience is just getting too competitive with theaters.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:49:33 GMT

I continue to watch classics like Pinnochio, Fantasia and Sleeping Beauty because of the quality of films they are. I don't care or consider the poor box office they generated on their initital release. I think Jim is beating a dead horse trying to convince us that he was right on how to classify this movie since even Brad Bird is disappointed about his box office numbers. It is too soon to judge. Frank Capra was rewarded eventually that "It's a Wonderful Life" was a box office disappointment too and now it is iconic.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:56:28 GMT

It's kind of astonishing that Jim is willing to casually quote a Disney executive who reinforces everything his own detractors have been saying: that after having a massive smash like Finding Nemo, every other movie is going to seem disappointing, even if it performs perfectly well. And the press is then going to tear them to shreds for "declining profits". And 'the press' would most definitely include Jim. Yet Jim doesn't seem to absorb this point at all, and continues with his relentless anti-Pixar spin. Criminy, the quote even underlines why people are so upset at Jim's dishonesty: painting Ratatouille as a bomb give the Disney executives licence to meddle in Pixar's storytelling, thus almost guaranteeing a lower quality of movie.

Like most people, I don't actually care about Pixar's grosses per se, but I worry that Jim's articles are feeding the corporate politics that could mean the end of the triumphant Pixar films we've grown accustomed to. I remember the mid-90s, when Disney literally killed the goose that laid the golden eggs. As the guy above mentions, they were in a similar place--huge hit followed by some supposed disappointments...though "Pocahontas" and "Hunchback" represent a much more serious dropoff than "Cars" and "Ratatouille", in both quality and profits, so in that case the word "disappointment" is more justified. Nevertheless, Disney's post-Lion King movies WERE solid long-term performers--but apparently the simple fact that they didn't light the box office on fire right out of the gate was enough to open the doors for corporate meddling. It really is shocking to see how relentlessly Disney sabotaged its own feature animation division; the movies were both making money AND branching out in interesting directions, yet formula-minded suits did everything in their power to kill the animator's attempts to recapture their glory. The real turning point was "Tarzan", which could have been "The Incredibles" seven years earlier, but was burdened by the over-cautious tinkering of the bean counters. Tarzan was actually a substantial hit, because people saw the marketing and thought Disney was doing something new, forging a serious action-adventure movie free of songs and wacky sidekicks. But they left the theater realizing Disney had, mostly, pulled a con on them, and after that they weren't willing to give Disney the benefit of the doubt in the future. Movies that were unabashedly aimed at kids still made money, but people stayed the hell away from "Atlantis" and "Treasure Planet", which could have been the new direction for Disney. Then the whole "3D has killed 2D" meme took over and, well, you know the rest.

At every step, stupid, arrogant decisions on the corporate level, based on fear and superficial perceptions of the situation, took a reliable cash cow and killed it. We worry that the handful of people banging the drum of "Pixar's not what it once was" are beginning a similarly nightmarish process for Pixar. In fact this is a (ridiculously minor) dip in the otherwise rock-solid Pixar performance, at a time when virtually everyone else in the movie business is on an out-of-control roller coaster, yet here's Jim, trying to make the case that Disney should start mucking about with the formula for success. A glance at the recent past shows that there are much, much worse things that can happen to an animation studio than extremely minor and dubious downward trends, and then tend to happen when you try to fix what isn't broken.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:13:29 GMT

I can't really speak for "the masses", but I can say that I myself haven't seen the film, nor have I seen very many films at all in theaters recently. The main reason I don't go to the movies much anymore has nothing to do with gas prices, and little to do with ticket prices -- although I'll admit that charging me admission AND showing me commercials before the film is a pet peeve of mine.

Actually, the greatest deterrent for me from going to the movies is the other patrons. To be blunt, the number of people found in my local multiplex at any given time who are actually smart enough to be there is rapidly approaching zero.

Keep in mind that I live in a relatively affluent area. My multiplex is a two year old, state-of-the-art, stadium seating, all digital facility. The people who live in my area are mostly highly educated, well paid people working in the high-tech industry. But it seems that even these affluent, educated people don't know enough not to talk or take phone calls, kick seats, or constantly get up during movies.

And it doesn't take a packed theater either. I've had my movie-going experience ruined when there were no more than a half dozen other people besides my wife and I in the theater.

With the quality of home exhibition improving all the time, and the quality of the theater experience diminishing, it is not surprising that films of any genre, from any studio, are having trouble drawing the way they used to.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:31:19 GMT

I only wish my life could be as 'disappointing' as Rat and I dread ever having the 'success' of Jim's biased Pixar bashing articles.

Maybe I just don't understand the true meaning of those two words?

That being said, I agree that this was the most 'fair' (cough cough) article Jim has written on the subject. It's still an unfair article... but baby steps, baby steps.

But the twisting of quotes (that first Brad B quote did NOT support your position Jim), the absence of actual figures- let alone up to date ones, and the backhanded compliment ( "not a huge disappointment" - try no disappointment), and then putting words into the mouths of the folks who disagree with you... I havn't heard anyone say it was an "enormous success"... that's you trying to make the 'Pixar diehards' look stupid.... is weak.

You're trying waaayyyy to hard Jim... and failing.

Anyway, I do think that people are getting tired of talking animated animal movies and crappy cg in general. Pixar, and anyone making quality cg movies, should remember that. And YES... the whole DVD thing really messes up 99% of movies and the money they could make in theatres. I routinely go through the movie listings and put movies into one of three catagories:

1. Must See

2. Must Rent

3. Must Avoid

For me personally, 50% of movies fall into catagory #3, 35% fall into #2, and the last 15% are #1's.

And until movie ticket prices drop, the quality of the food improves, and most importantly the overall enjoyment (ie cell phones, people talking, cleanliness of theater, etc,...) improves, it is very easy to let many #1's creep into the #2 catagory due to the inexpensive DVD at home route.

Heck, I have Blockbuster Online. For about $18/month I get 3 movies in the mail, 3 more when I return them to the store, and a free movie or game rental, and I can turn them in and get new ones as fast as I can watch them and return them... I find it REALLY hard to justify going the the theatre and spending about $25 at least for me and my gal for one movie.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:39:39 GMT

Just to confirm, Ratatoullie has the 3rd highest international gross after only Finding nemo and The Incredibles!!! There is no downward trend, there is life outside the USA.

As for its performance in America, surely that has more to do with an overcrowded market and an overcrowded CGI market to be be more precise?

Bottom line, it will hit $500,000000 world wide, with merchandise flying off the shelves all over Europe and the majority of territories it is playing in. Yes the merchandise for cars sold better in the USA, but as we all know, its a global market these days.

£rd highest gross ever internationally for a Pixar film..... and its still taking money!

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:45:04 GMT

"In fact this is a (ridiculously minor) dip in the otherwise rock-solid Pixar performance..."

Actually, it's not even a dip. Overall, it made more than Cars, so that makes Cars the dip and this the first step heading back up. It's only a dip if you don't look at total performance and only look at the US market.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:10:24 GMT

While the whole "wait for DVD" argument is solid, it's far from the real reason Pixar's latest films are dropping numbers. To get movie goers out of their living rooms you have to creat something thay have to have RIGHT NOW. Both CARS and RATATOULLIE are terrific films. But neither one has that "I gotta see that now!" quality. They were both marketed horribly. And neither concept alone made anyone excited. I would have never gone to either movie based on the trailers, or the concepts. I went ONLY because they were PIXAR films, directed by John Lasseter and Brad Bird. I fear that Pixar is now making films that THEY want to make instead of making films that WE want to see. I applaud them for risk taking. I enjoy their efforts. But going into live action isn't going to help if those films don't contain the "I gotta see that now" quotient. 1906? I don't care. John Carter? Maybe, maybe not. I have faith in Pixar's talent, so I'm keepng my fingers crossed. Any failures they have won't be because they didn't try hard enough.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:43:21 GMT

Hey Pixies...raise your hands if you actually think John Lasseter isn't one hundred percent involved with Disney, when it comes to the marketing his films. Sometimes bad films make tons of money...sometimes great films make...not as much. Breathe...breathe...

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:03:46 GMT

I like that Pixar has so much integrety and pride in their work (like letting the film stand on it's own and not getting mixed up in IMAX3D and the like). I enjoy that. It's the difference between movies and films, and Pixar makes films.

I think that Pixar could successfully make great films in any medium, and I look forward to 1906. I think it will shock people to see a live-action film with the Pixar lamp beforehand, but in a good way I hope.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:05:15 GMT

I think its funny how so many of the people who respond to Jim's articles take what is said so personally. To quote from this article :

" Well, perhaps now you can understand why Pixar's latest is considered to be something of a disappointment by the folks back in Burbank & Emeryville."

He didnt say HE thought is was a disappointment. He said D & P managment think it was a disapointment. Whether right or wrong, thats what he is hearing from them. Jim is'nt just sitting a computer and making crap up to piss all the diehard "PIXAR CAN DO NO WRONG" people. He is reporting information as it comes to him. If Jim was writing an editorial filled with his opinion, I could understand anger directed at him.

If anything, everyone should be mad at Disney's marketing of the film. The trailers really failed to give you a feel of what the movie was all about.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:06:06 GMT

I think that it is being a bit rash to associate the numbers with Brand Fatigue. I’d put more weight on the subject matter that the past two Pixar films are about.

To be honest, I almost didn’t go to see Cars because I have no interest in them whatsoever. I decided that I should see it since Pixar is master at story telling. And I know that a number of young girls wouldn’t be interested in that either. That leaves it to families with boys, adventurous girls, and diehard Pixar fans. Ratatouille was about a rat. I happen to like rats; a majority of people do NOT. I would think that this is part of the reason that it was not received in the same fashion. Also, Brad Bird chose to show the rats in a very life like manner as opposed to the cartoonish look of Mickey.

And I think that Pixar may be making the same mistake Disney did in the late 90’s. If you are making movies that do not have as broad an appeal, Treasure Planet and Atlantis, they are not going to do as well. Disney decided that the traditional animation look was to blame. Pixar is now looking to go into live action. Which is something that I am waiting to see before I decide how that could go.

Disney joined a number of studios to jump on the computer animated train. Now audiences have a much larger offering of computer animated films, therefore another reason that recent Pixar releases to not compare to earlier ones is there is a flooded market. It is not BRAND FATIGUE, but STYLE FATIGUE. Though Pixar’s name is associated with quality it is just another of the computer animated movies that is being churned out during the year.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:39:05 GMT

"gambit"? "gimmick"? "deal with brand fatigue?"

I don't think so. I think it's what they want to do next, pure and simple.

And more power to them.

If you want to manage expectations, just put out a couple really crappy movies. Then everyone will get excited when you put out a successful one. Thank goodness Pixar isn't interested in managing expections, as the quotes you give here show.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:23:29 GMT

Jables, I went to Chefs de France at Epcot a couple of weekends ago and a highlight on their menu was ratatouille.

I think it would be wonderful if they plugged that much-discussed Ratatouille version of Crush's Coaster from WDS Paris right into the France pavillion at Epcot. They certainly need more rides in the World Showcase.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 02:41:16 GMT

Yes, I think perversely, because every Pixar is worth watching again and again, people now just fall into a pattern of - well, I'm going to buy the DVD at Costco in 4 months, why bother - as was mentioned in the piece ... but I think it would help to release them earlier so people feel there's a greater distance to the holiday season ... when it's May or early June, then it feels like the holidays are a long ways off but by July or (june 20 in this case), the summer feels over for family with kids going back to school in mid august and the sensation that DVD season is just about upon us - yes, it's jkust a perception but in the case of PIxar, I think that's what they need to do create the perception the DVD is a long way off ... but hey, the crowd is weird, Shrek 3 and Ice Age 2 or 3 (hard o tell) were God awful with bad animation but hey, slap a 2 or another number and people are like sheep.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 13:37:00 GMT

The move to make Pixar more like a full fledge studio can be seen in their expansion plans launched back in 2004. You don't add 1,300 jobs to just do more animation. Here is a link with a map and links within the link:

http://pixaranimation.blogspot.com/2004/06/pixar-plans-1300-job-california-hq.html

How this plan unfolds now, with Disney as the parent, remains to be seen.....

http://www.raymation.net

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 15:41:50 GMT

I think Pixar is doing fine and this "brand fatigue" is only in the minds of those who look for it. I also agree that Jim has misused the first Brad Bird quote, as it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what Jim is talking about. Also, I think that for an article entitled "Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?", he spends far too much time trying to convice us that there's a problem and far too little talking about the live action productions. I know no more about them now than I did before I read the article.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:15:23 GMT

TheYeti...thank you for that. I must have missed that when I went to Epcot a few weeks back, and I was even looking for it. I will definately check that out. However, I still think if this was a more traditionaly Disney or Pixar film they would be flaunting this. Nemo gets two brand new attractions this year, with mega marketing behind it. Ratatoille gets a quiet menu add at a Disney eatery.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:12:30 GMT

The first Brad quote sounds like he's talking about people like you, Jim.

Also, you know that Fantasia, Pinnochio and Bambi were all "financial disappointments" when they were first released.

You yourself said that you thought Ratatouille was a quality film. Quality wins out in the long run - and if it doesn't...well, at least it's freakin' quality.

On Brad's second quote, I feel that the film may have been mismarketed in the U.S. - TV commercials with "fun facts" about gross-out foods that weren't in the movie. Also, I went to the three major local retailers here in Santa Maria - Wal*Mart, K-Mart and Target - and could not find one single Ratatouille toy. Not one. There is something terribly wrong with that picture, especially when there were still "Surf's Up" toys in the store. The conspiracy theorist in me suspects that Disney merchandising created a self-fulfilling prophecy by assuming people wouldn't buy adorable rat toys - or worse, are purposely trying to steer Pixar away from "risky" films like Ratatouille, and towards more "guarenteed" "marketable" sequels like Toy Story 3 and Cars 2.

I'm on a discussion board with some people who insist that Disney's California Adventure was an unqualified success. I don't want to be one of those people with regards to Ratatouille. But you don't see it being the butt of jokes all over the place the way you do Disney's California Adventure.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 15:40:08 GMT

US and foreign boxoffice numbers seem to be figures that the media selectively reference to make their case about how a film is doing. Is the foreign money not good on some days and good on others?

Ice Age II didn't do as well as Ratatouille domestically but did huge overseas and yet I don't read much about that sucess.

That said, I think Ratatouille "under performed" because the whole fancy Paris-cooking-rat thing probably seemed a bit too sophisticated for the the average suburban soccer mom to risk taking her five-year-old to.

She wants obviously safe bets like talking penguins on ice flows or a singing princess in a castle.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 16:43:55 GMT

Though we hate going to theaters to see movies, we make an exception for Pixar movies. We go see each at least once in the theater.

Until recently, we also then purchased the DVD when it was available. However, now we skip the DVD and wait until the Blu-ray DVDs come out.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:41:08 GMT

Best "disappointment" ever.

http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=ratatouille.htm

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:14:02 GMT

Does Jim even know that "1906" IS NOT a Pixar movie?

I suppose not.

Brad Bird is actually making this movie for Warner Brothers. Everyone in Hollywood knows this... It's bizarre that Jim's calling it a Pixar film.

And now RATATOUILLE is officially the third highest-grossing Pixar film ever.

Someone's gotten strangely silent on this subject.

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:35:43 GMT

RATATOUILLE grosses as of 10/28/07. (from Variety)

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117974901.html?categoryid=13&cs=1&nid=2562

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"Ratatouille" has cumed $346.8 million overseas -- well above Disney's forecasts -- and $552 million worldwide. It may still have enough gas in the tank to have a shot at becoming the 29th pic to hit the $400 million mark internationally.

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Yes, that's $552 Million on a $150 production budget.

I might not be a Disney Exec or Jim Hill, but I'd opine that to be a pretty damn impressive fiscal performance (and it's not even done yet!).

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:21:46 GMT

The walls are really crumbling at Pixar these days. :P

re: Monday Mouse Watch: Will live action productions really help Pixar deal with its brand fatigue problem?

Jim Hill — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 16:41:45 GMT

"I know, I know. Pixar diehards keep insisting that "Ratatouille" is this enormous success. That there's no possible way that anyone could ever be disappointed with the way this Brad Bird film has performed to date."

As of 11/04/07...

Ratatouille Worldwide Box-Office: $580,708,238

Uh, Jim... We Pixar Diehards are waiting for our apology.