Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:43:58 GMT

Well, considering the exciting trek my wife and I have been going through to get to work with the tropical storm over my head still hanging around I gotta say this sounds really lame.

How is cutting the number of ziplines from 4 to 2 supposed to be an improvement? How is any of this supposed to an improvement?

In other news; my wife and I just witnessed a drunk CP almost getting run over while dancing in the intersection with Faye pouring rain on our heads as we got off from work. Her response to the truck's honk was to laugh and yell out KUN-GA-LUSH! I'm not trying to start an argument I'm just sharing since it happened ten minutes ago.

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 02:54:54 GMT

I'm having a tough time following the logic on this one. "Let's build a 5th gate to offer a premium experience to a small group of high-roller guests... but let's skimp on what we're going to offer because it'll cost too much otherwise."

Ooooookaaaayyy...

Why do I get the feeling that this isn't going to turn out well?

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:36:32 GMT

As long as there is a new A.C. to visit for free or under $30, I do not care what they do because this thing sounds totally LAME!! It seems that Disney is making a last minute attempt to grab on to a niche idea that has already hatched elsewhere. If they build this park as you describe, it will be a disaster. For the first time in my life I planned a winter trip to Orlando and I have no plans to see any Disney park. My wife and I are going to go to Universal, Sea World and spend the rest of the time relaxing and playing golf. I cannot believe that I have went from a "foamer" to someone who is completely apathetic to Disney's effort to keep me coming back. If Universal were smart, they would immediately build an interactive nightclub like A.C. in City Walk. They should capitalize on Disney's mistake, make it state of the art and run with it. In fact, they could even try the nightclub idea that I have posted at my blog site a few years ago at (shameless plug) www.amateurimagineer.com. It would even fit in with their HHN.

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:03:34 GMT

Yeah, this is a terrible idea. Scaling back a premium experience isn't going to wow guests. Plus, only 5 hours? Yikes. At least 4 to midnight gave you a full 8 hour experience.

Bad form Disney.

I will be down there in a week and I hope to take this survey.

Getting rid of the Adventurer's Club like entrance is also stupid. How many AC fans would do this part just to get one more small taste?

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 05:44:49 GMT

I'm just waiting for then inevitable back pedal

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:17:18 GMT

The UK survey was posted on (and apparently pulled from) wdwmagic.com, but was reprinted on micechat:

http://micechat.com/forums/showthread.php/wdws_5th_gate_revealed_detail-102183.html

Read it quick while it's still there...

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:20:17 GMT

Sounds like the Grand Floridian all over...instead of a a 5-star hotel, we'll build a 3-star and "theme" it as a 5-star and hope high-end customers don't notice the difference.

In fairness, the "four corners of the globe" idea at least has potential, if they weren't cutting corners like crazy. But I'm still not sure it's enough to compare with the primal appeal (and highly interactive nature) of a dolphin swim.

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:42:28 GMT

This park is very unappealing to me. It's starting to sound so lame that I don't even think I'd shell out the money to try it once.

Disney already has a Jungle Cruise in Magic Kingdom and an entire animal-themed park. A park called Jungle Trek just doesn't seem that new and different - and certainly not worth $300. To get people to spend that kind of money, the offerings have to be very different and much better than what one could experience at any of the other parks. Instead, they're already cutting corners?

You'd think after Disney's California Adventure and Hong Kong Disneyland, Disney would have learned that when you give someone half a park, you're not even going to get half the attendance you would have gotten for a full park. I think this concept needs much, much more revamping because as it is now, I think it'll be a huge flop.

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 10:45:58 GMT

This is a mistake, and a costly one at that. If the company for some reason has $520 million burning a hole in its pocket, why not concentrate on building up one of the existing parks, like Disney's Hollywood Studios or Animal Kingdom? Build a couple of new attractions or new experiences, perhaps. If they turn the "half-day parks" into full-day experiences, people will spend more time on the property. That equals more $$$$.

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 11:22:50 GMT

I have to agree with what everybody else has said, cutting corners/costs on a premium park is going to come back to haunt them.

I also couldn't help but think, why not add this into AK? They could stick it in where Camp Minnie Mickey is, and have a special entrance just for the guests coming to it. Dual purpose the area and make part of it open to regular AK guests, and the other parts just for the JT guests. It would help drive interest in it, by giving AK visitors a glimpse of what the park had to offer.

Also, I still think converting the Rainforest Cafe at AK to the entrance and restaurant for this park/attraction is a good idea as well.

No doubt this thing will change again before it sees light of day, and the budget will most likely grow.

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:37:13 GMT

What Disney seems to not get is this: The reason Discovery Cove is popular is that it provides an experience that so many people list on their "things I want to do before I die" list: Swim with Dolphins. My wife tells me constantly that it is a dream of hers to be able to swim with a dolphin at some point. Because it is in this "dream.. once in a lifetime" mentality, people are willing to do it. I am willing to pay their premium to give her than experience. But nothing in this proposed park, as it now stands, falls into that category. I don't have a lifetime dream to ride a zip line (I can do that at home). I don't dream of swimming in a cave with bats. I don't dream of sitting in an theater to watch a show. And to plunk down $1500 for a 4 hour experience with my family of this? No Thanks. There are much better things I can do with my money. Discover Cove has the swimming with Dolphins thing covered. I can't think of too many other things that are on many people's "things to do before I die" list that would cause people to pay that kind of premium. Sorry, Disney.. you missed the boat on that one. Now.. build an exclusive park with all the latest thrill rides, dark rides and roller coasters, themed to the highest disney standards.. you know the long rumored Beastly Kingdom.. I'll go to that!!!

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:38:25 GMT

jason71-

From the beginning, the Grand Floridian was designed as a 4-star hotel. Not a 3, not a 5. To be a 5-star hotel, they would have had to make concessions that would have hurt the experience for kids and families. So they downgraded to a 4-star hotel.

At least, that's what cast members were told during the first training classes for the resort.....

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:52:03 GMT

jason71-

Disney didn't make up the hotel rating. The Grand Floridian earned it. You're welcome to disagree with it but it's not a case of lying or manipulation on Disney's part. Plus I believe Priesman is right and that it received a 4-star.

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:59:48 GMT

Honestly, this is nothing new. As we've seen in the past, design changes are part of the standard. They're just trying to keep the park profitable; otherwise, what's the point of having it? Wait until the park opens; I am sure it will be a very good experience no matter what.

C'mon, Jim, you know better than that ;)

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:43:19 GMT

The Grand may have been built as a 4-star, but it's certainly been allowed to slip since then. Bottom line, it was supposed to be Disney's "luxury" hotel, but Disney cut corners, and now they have to sell land to the Four Seasons to get that market back on property instead of the JW and the Ritz.

Same idea here. There's a market for a high-end botique park...DC proves that. But if you cut corners, making it little different than any other of the parks, then people aren't going to spend the money to go. There needs to be a level of luxury and service to attract that market segment that I'm no longer sure Disney can provide.

In any case, I'm still with swfanatic. Swimming with dolphins is a primal, once-in-a-lifetime experience. Visiting the world of Harry Potter (as was the rumor before Universal snatched away the rights) could have worked, too. But a live action Jungle Cruise ending with a variation on Tusker House and the Lion King show? Not unique enough.

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:15:05 GMT

How about this:

Are theme parks becoming obsolete?

I think Disney has captured something with their travel destination excursions, but to me I think once Vegas tapped into the family market and tehn retreated, the damage had been done

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:00:17 GMT

It seems awfully premature to judge a concept when it's in the earliest stages of development.

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:53:05 GMT

"The Grand may have been built as a 4-star, but it's certainly been allowed to slip since then. Bottom line, it was supposed to be Disney's "luxury" hotel, but Disney cut corners"

?!?! How so? I mean I stayed there in July and the place was wonderful. My room was practically new and the service was great and super-friendly. It may not be up the standards of the super rich but then again I can't imagine a better experience. I think someone may be drinking the sour-punch...

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:20:15 GMT

The activity list published on Micechat for this park sounds lame, lame, lame.

What they are offering can be done in the major European zoos for free, besides: who wants to feed bats and hippos? Ugh!

Zip lines over a river? Can be done on many tree-top-trails.

Maybe this is impressive for Americans, but visitors from the UK should know better, they have this in their own zoos. They'll keep swimming with the dolphins...

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 07:19:30 GMT

Speaking as a Central Floridian, I am THRILLED that Disney is even considering a fifth gate! The construction and operation of a new park means more jobs and returning visitors.

Well done Disney!

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:33:56 GMT

Give me Beastly Kingdom any day over this. Let's finally do justice to the dragon that hangs over the Animal Kingdom ticket booths. I don't Hippos, I want Unicorns!

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 14:44:38 GMT

lostincrowds may unintentionally have an excellent point. Beastly Kingdom would make a MUCH better premium experience then this would. Think "ultimate renfest" where YOU fight the dragon or ride pegasus! All we need is a little genetic engineering and a dream!

Oh I got a better one! Disney should rent an island from the government of Costa Rica where they can have premium guests experience the greatest adventure of all, DINOSAURS! We'll clone them from tree sap and cage them behind large electric fences! What could go wrong?!

(Note: I didn't originally intend to get snarky there but I'm coming to the conclusion that Disney doing a premium park is a very stupid idea to begin with.)

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:18:25 GMT

Over at TPI a poster noted Disney has the potential to package a premium park with hotel space. This concept can travel in a variety of directions.

Stay tuned!

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:34:19 GMT

I don't even spend much time at Animal Kingdom. Why the heck would I want to cough up $300 bucks for more zoo time?

I MIGHT spend that much for a Beastly Kingdom experience. Disney could create a park with AA dragons, griffins, unicorns, trolls, giants...and then have a medieval-castle feast at the end. That would truly rock. But THIS...forget it. My interest in Night Kingdom is zip.

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:05:29 GMT

Why don't they come up with a more fun and creative theme? Recreating locations that already exist has been done to death already at the parks. Universal's got it right with Potter. Creating a totally new, original world for people to explore. Why make a theme park themed to the "four corners of the World" when you've already got World Showcase and Animal Kingdom and Adventureland and Animal Kingdom Lodge?

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 16:11:42 GMT

Negating some of what I just posted, recreating locations isn't necessarily a bad thing if it is actaully something new that isn't already at the parks, but I guess what I'm looking at from the concepts of Jungle Trek is stuff that's already around Disney World.

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 06:04:27 GMT

Why should I pay 300 dolars to get for just ONE DAY there if for that money I can buy a park hopper for the other parks for few days???

Belive me... after a full week of park hopping you want to have a deserved rest and adding a fifth park might be a big mistake for Disney....

Four parks so far is enough and remember there are many activities to do on propety... I love WDW but 300 extra dollars extra to the thousands I spend when visiting there... not atractive ...

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Sun, 24 Aug 2008 17:56:23 GMT

Putting aside all of the very valid comments re. misc. issues, the bottomline here is simple: Can Disney (a) build and (b) promote a park that guests will not only BELIEVE in advance of actually experiencing it is WORTH $300 and (c) one that will SATISFY those guests who DO try it enough to spread positive word-of-mouth that it IS indeed worth the price?

Believe it or not, folks--rich people GET rich by not buying CRAP for high prices. They seek VALUE. And if this thing not only doesn't SEEM from the OUTSIDE to be a value for the money and also doesn't ACTUALLY become a value-worthy experience...it's doomed.

We'll see.....

re: Say "Nighty-night" to Night Kingdom and "Jambo" to Disney's Jungle Trek

Jim Hill — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:55:00 GMT

What I don't understand is even if you had that much money, why would you travel to Florida to do these things? Want to experience a zip line? Head over to Costa Rica and do it over an actual jungle. My wife and I went last year for our honeymoon, and the airfare was cheaper than going out to visit my family in California. (And the dollar is still strong in Costa Rica, so food and lodging were pretty cheap). Want to experience a safari? Go see the actual African savannah. In fact, British tourists can get better value for their pound in Africa than they can in the U.S. And it's the real experience!

I agree with The Dude. Disney should give us a new, original world for that price, not a clone.