Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 02:54:46 GMT

Interesting. I had always thought the whole mountains was Everest. When they showed the map in that video podcast, I got confused. Now it makes sense. The ride never even goes to Everest, it's just kinda looming in the distance (thanks to forced perspective).

"I see," said the blind man.

Also, for those who have yet to experience this attraction, just you wait. It really is a very well done and exciting ride. On our recent trip, I rode it a staggering 9 times (thanks to the singles line), and I loved every trip into the forbidden mountain.

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 05:05:18 GMT

I think this is just an okay ride. If there is anything they could add to, probably more indoor show scenes than just a video projection and a yeti encounter lasting no more than a second.

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 08:41:18 GMT

I've yet to experience this ride, but this article makes me really excited to get on it soon.

Thanks, Jim, for this article.

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 09:17:50 GMT

I rode E:E for the first time in May and, while I was overwhelmed by the ride itself (great coaster!!), I have to admit to being a tad underwhelmed by the interior ride design itself.

The queue area was great ... a typically well-themed Disney masterpiece, but I was sorely disappointed in the yeti. I'd heard so much about it ... how huge it was and how amazingly well articulated the movement was, etc. ... and then you see it only for about 2 seconds while roaring by at 25 mph!! What a waste of a great Imagineering effort.

There are like 2 or 3 separate instances where your train comes to a complete stop. Why not position the yeti AA there a la Dinosaur, so the peeps can get really up close and personal with it?? Dumb, dumb, dumb decision if you ask me ...

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 10:00:33 GMT

The storytelling is so good - it has to be diagramed and explained.

That'll be a quick Q&A - "well, you see, there aren't going to be any imagineers anymore."

Please - keep him on the lecture circuit.

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 10:05:47 GMT

That's really bizarre. I would have thought the mountain to the RIGHT would be Everest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Mount_Everest_from_Rongbuk_may_2005.JPG

The image there matches up quite well.

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 11:46:26 GMT

Ditto to what brick1974 said. Jim, are you SURE Joe said Everest was the peak on the LEFT? Near the shrine on the path from Kali to EE, there is an observation spot with a plaque depicting the mountian range, and a couple "telescopes". The scopes have become loose is the past months, but when first installed the one marked "Everest" clearly pointed at the peak on the RIGHT. Also, the peak on the left has snow on it, the peak on the right is bare rock -- the real Everest is so high that the thin atmosphere at the peak doesn't form heavy snow (see brick1974's wiki photo).

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 12:09:12 GMT

It is the small peak to the RIGHT (as we are looking at the attraction) As a opening team and test and adjust cast member of EVEREST I can confirm this.

-Mike

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 12:13:45 GMT

Another thought...

I'd love to have heard the whole speech, because I'm curious if Joe addressed the LACK of storytelling in the actual ride. EE has a fantastic Act 1 (the queue and surrounding themeing), a decent Act 2 (the train ride through the backwards portion), and an almost nonexistant 3rd Act. What is the point of setting up an elaborate story if there is no resolution?

The close encounter with the Yeti (technically impressive as the AA is) is emotionally unsatisfying NOT just because it's too short, but because it has no meaning. What EFFECT does the Yeti have on us, and vice versa? NONE! It's a close encounter with no consequence. At the end of the ride, what has changed? Nothing.

IF the short cave following the Yeti was extended into another show scene with some effects depicting the destruction of the caves/rail lines behind us, so that the way is now permanantely barred, it would give the ride a sense of closure. The swaying timbers and sound effects suggest this may have been the intention, but it's weakly executed. As is there is no consequence resulting from our ignoring the Forbidden Mountain warnings, either for ourselves, or for the tea-train/sightseeing company.

In drama, a story must have both a climax AND a resolution. EE has the one without the other. Imagine watching The Empire Strikes back, and having the movie end as soon as Vader cuts Luke's hand off. Sure, you get the "money shot", but without the followup it has no meaning. Or, think of what Splash Mountain would be if after the big drop you went straight to unload without the final Zip-i-dee-doo-dah show scenes? You got the big thrill, but without the emotional resolution it would feel hollow and incomplete. Heck, even the underwhelming Dinosaur has the "I better find him before security does" button on the story -- you would feel unresolved if you went from the finale to unload in silence.

EE is a very good ride that could easily have been great -- as it is, the abrupt and unsatifying transition back to the unload station undermines the obvious care and effort that went into the attraction. Too bad...

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 12:30:58 GMT

Hey, there's a video podcast / youtube of this somewhere. Does anyone have a link?

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:22:17 GMT

I don't know, I got to ride EE back in the spring, and I thought it was lacking something. It's missing several major components of Disney's best theming experiences - MUSIC (and audio in general - the ride feels virtually silent), COLOR, and EMOTION. The Imagineers seem to have confused "story" with "accurate recreation." The point of telling a story should not be to transport us to Nepal, the point should be to thrill and excite. To produce a thrill, you don't accurately recreate the "slurry" painting technique in the queue. To produce a thrill, you enshroud the audience in darkness, play ominous sounds, exciting and dangerous music, and focus on the feelings of the audience as they journey through the attraction - that's how Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Carribbean, and Tower of Terror work, and to be honest, I feel more thrill on any of those than I did on EE.

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:16:43 GMT

I think you guys are missing the point. The Yeti is SUPPOSED to be this mysterious, almost mythical creature that has rarely been seen. Those who have seen him, usually don't live to tell of him, or they have a harrowing story to tell how they almost didn't survive. So, you might say, that as riders on this train, and part of a similar story, it's a miracle that you encounter him and live to tell of it. I can see where they (WDI) are also going for a "haunted house" kind of effect, kind a pop-up ghost/monster that goes "BOO!", he's there just long enough to scare you.

I think it's one of the best themed rides we've seen Disney do in quite a while. Bravo to Joe and his crew. I worry what future projects will look like and whether the down-sizing of WDI will make them leaner and more focused, or thin them out so much that a lot of the creativity is lost.

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 14:40:15 GMT

GrumpyFan, you made my point precisely -- "The Yeti is SUPPOSED to be this mysterious, almost mythical creature that has rarely been seen. Those who have seen him, usually don't live to tell of him, or they have a harrowing story to tell how they almost didn't survive". Well, we encounter him, and nothing of consequence results. All the "harrowing story" elements are not well tied to the Yeti. Yes, he waves his arm near us (if you see the A-show) but then we emerge safely into the daylight with no real sense of danger. Again, to compare to Dinosaur (can't believe I'm actually comparing an E-Ticket unfavorably to CTX!) -- what if you had the photo-flash encounter with the carno, but not "they're not gonna make it" noise and lights -- yes, we saw the dangerous creature, but never really felt any threat.

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:29:14 GMT

So if you're suppossed to barely see him, why make him one of the "most advanced AA figures ever?"

We've already had a roller coaster in a mountain with an abomidable snowman - this was not that amazing of a new idea.

For something really challenging, make a train ride that the whole family could and would want to ride, and throw in a little education about real Asian animals. Put a large Vegas-style tiger cage halfway up the mountain with a couple snow leopardsin it, yaks can go farther up the make-believe mountain - it's a different ride everytime. Disney spent all this money on real Everest expeditions - show the golden monkeys they found, or an advanced AA simulation, or project them on a mist screen. The giant grasshoppers can be seen while in line. Then when you have to give a presentation on the ride, you can talk about how often the animals are switched out, how comfortable they are, how they watch the people, etc etc, instead of detailed hints that few notice. If you must have a coaster for the teens that aren't at Universal - make one loading bay mild, the other loading bay wild. In other words, something no other park has.

Right now, it's a matterhorn with a longer queue and the train goes backwards. A detailed pre-show queue is only impressive when it leads to something impressive.

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:45:48 GMT

GrumpyFan said "The Yeti is SUPPOSED to be this mysterious, almost mythical creature that has rarely been seen. Those who have seen him, usually don't live to tell of him, or they have a harrowing story to tell how they almost didn't survive"

While that may be true, it doesn't necessarily translate to a good guest experience. I mean I could make up a story about a mop, but it wouldn't necessarily pull in guests.

I think skubersky and Reginald S. Fairfax hit the nail on the head with their analyses. I especially noticed the lack of a soundtrack ...

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:56:03 GMT

Especially when the Yeti is in non-working mode, you get a ride with a climax of -5 on a scale of 0-10.

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:38:12 GMT

We definitely like our climax to be a 10/10.

I think we ought to hire Joe Rohde to play the Yeti. He looks the part, minus a bit of extra hair. :)

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Wed, 02 Aug 2006 21:21:41 GMT

<<<<The close encounter with the Yeti (technically impressive as the AA is) is emotionally unsatisfying NOT just because it's too short, but because it has no meaning. What EFFECT does the Yeti have on us, and vice versa? NONE! It's a close encounter with no consequence. At the end of the ride, what has changed? Nothing.>>>>>

To think I thought the Yeti tore up the tracks in a couple places, then attacks our train. We narrowly escape back to the station where we started from as the Yeti has prevented us from making our journey through the forbidden mountain. Must of been a different ride that we rode then yours.

re: Storytelling on an epic scale: "Expedition Everest -- Legend of the Forbidden Mountain"

Jim Hill — Thu, 03 Aug 2006 13:58:42 GMT

I thought this ride was a little weak -- especially the ending. I was reminded of how much more powerful the ending to Jurassic Park is at Islands of Adventure. Seems like we just slide past the Yeti and that's it. Felt a little like I was on Peter Pan or Haunted Mansion or something, which is fine, but not for a supposed thrill ride. I was all built up and ready for a climaxing drop -- and it never came!

Everest was fun -- but it was no Tower of Terror or Splash Mountain. In fact my girlfriend, her sister and I were more thrilled -- and frightened! -- by Dinosaur. Those animatronic carnotosaurs had me terrified. And I'm a grown man!

Scale » Storytelling on an epic scale: “Expedition Everest — Legend of …

Jim Hill — Thu, 03 Aug 2006 19:44:42 GMT

PingBack from http://scale.wvtwelve.com/archive/storytelling-on-an-epic-scale-expedition-everest-legend-of/