Very Interesting. Disney's definately putting a lot on Pirates, almost like a certain gameshow with a certain morning show host. Considering the last film was quite a mess story wise (IE who didn't understand that Will was only supposed to be on the flying Dutchman for 10 years or why the kracken, a great revival of a classic sea monster, was suddenly bumped off with little to no good reason), I'm quite afraid for all these new makeovers.

And am i dislexic or is there something off with this sentence?

"Which is why it's very fortunate that Universal was able to persuade Stuart Craig (I.E. The art director of incredibly able to persuade Stuart Craig (I.E. Production designer of all of the "Harry Potter" pictures that Warners has produced to date) to come ride herd of this project. "

I think a complete Pirate makeover of Adventureland would be perfect. For starters, it would please many of those who want something new in MK. And let's be honest, the only non-pirate ride there fans (as a whole) have affection towards is the Jungle Cruise. And considering that is already an attraction based on water, all they would really have to do is alter the locations from the Nile & Amazon, etc to be locations like the Caribbean & Singapore. Easy changeover and they would be able to create a whole new slew of jokes. As for the rest, Magic Carpets, Tiki Room, Swiss Treehouse......... I say let the pirates invade!

I think a Pirates theme at the MK might be a nice change, but at the same time who's to say how long the Pirates craze will go on?  Harry Potter has been around a few years now, so it's got more legs than Jack Sparrow at this point.  Now, if Disney were to focus on making nice with George Lucas and securing more Star Wars themed attractions or lands, that might be a good contender to go head-to-head with Harry Potter.  Just look how strong the Star Wars Weekends at MGM are, and that the franchise is going on 30 years strong.  If MGM...oh, Disney-Pixar Studios had a brand new Star Wars land, with an updated Star Tours and several other attractions in it, that could easily compete with Universal's new plans.

I can't believe I'm going to say this ... I agree with askmike.

Honestly, most of Adventureland is a wasteland to me anymore. As fond as I was of the old Tiki Room, the "new improved" one is a disaster that never warrants my time. Dumbo Part Deux ... er ... the Adventureland Orbiter ... er ... the Magic Carpets of Aladdin could be blown up on the spot and I'd dance on it's grave. That was one of the biggest disasters of all time ... completely ruined the crowd flow and the atmosphere of Adventureland and was an exact dup of two existing rides in MK (not to mention one in AK).

I love the Jungle Cruise for nostalgia's sake, but I'd be lying if I said I'd been on it in awhile. While I'd be sad on some level to see it go, I'd be interested in seeing what they could do with it pirate-wise.

I would imagine that Harry Potter might get a lot of business because it would be new, but Disney should be okay with more Pirated-themed attractions. Why does it always have to be one upending the other?

I actually think The Walt Disney Company has dodged a bullet on this one.  Thanks to the Pixar entanglement and other priorities.

Universal has a declared two-year schedule on the Potter project, with Warner execs and JK Rowling all over it throughout the design development phase.  Add to that the inevitable disconnect between how a film is production designed, and the rather serious  requirements involved with theme park design.  Theme park sets have to last for years with lots of abuse...a movie set has to last for the duration of the shoot and that's it.  I hope Stuart Craig's learning curve is a short one...because a two-year schedule doesn't allow for many second chances.  For example, I love the snowy renderings of the Universal press release, but snow, whether it's painted plaster or real, gets dirty and it's impossible to maintain and those "Thomas Kinkaid" snowy rooftops will be grey in a matter of months.

I don't envy the person charged with the liaison position between the Universal team, the Warner execs, and Rowling.....he or she needs to wear body armor.

WDI will do quite well with the Pirates IP.  Back in the day, loved it when Universal would develop a new attraction because Eisner would get anxious and want to come up with something better...it became an attractions arms race.

^^Not only would Eisner want to come up with something better, but he'd want it open _before_ Universal's.

This is blasphemy!  It's okay to rework rides because rides are rides.  What we are talking about is a complete rework of what Walt Disney believed Disneyland/The Magic Kingdom to be.  We are talking about removing Walt's land of adventure and the unknown.  A cornerstone upon which Disneyland was built.  I agree the tiki room needs to be removed.  But, it should be replaced with the original tiki room.  That 90's extreme/hip junk has to go.

Without the jungles and the south pacific feel, adventureland loses all meaning.  What adventureland needs is an "E" ticket attraction like the Indiana Jones adventure in Disneyland.  There sure is a lot of land behind Jungle Cruise for another Forbidden Temple type attraction.

If you want to add the Black Pearl walkthrough, what about reviving the old Pirate's Rock from the 1950's Disneyland Fantasyland?

We are losing Tomorrowland.  It's becoming Pixarland.  I love Pixar and all their movies.  Soon they will have a park all to themselves (the Disney*Pixar Studios).  Most of their films could fit into Fantasyland (great for a Monster's Inc flying door ride).  Why invade Tomorrowland?  

Even when Walt tore down Tomorrowland, he didn't replace it with characters from his movies.  He looked to the future.  Why not look at attractions for the "Possible" Tomorrow instead of the "Fantasy Tomorrow"?  You remember the final act of the Carousel of Progress?  Very outdated with the virutal reality games and graphics.  It looks like it came out of the early 90's.  That's a great place to show off newer, current products that can pick up sponsorships.  How about, oh I don't know, maybe a little company called Apple, Inc.?  I don't think that sponsorship should be too hard.

The first shot has been taken at Frontierland in Anaheim.  Frontierland's cornerstone is gone.  The original design that Walt Disney himself drew out on a cocktail napkin is gone.  Replaced with a theme that was a century and a half before Tom and Huck.  The entire Frontierland is next.  "Who cares about Cowboys anymore?"

If Magic Kingdom wants to do anything look at the huge piece of land behind the Winnie the Pooh Playground.  What land you ask?  Hop aboard the Walt Disney World Railroad (how long until that's removed?) and look at all the land behind Fantasyland as you make the turn from Fronteirland to Mickey's ToonTown Fair.  Perfect place for an "E" ticket (*cough*Matterhorn*cough*).

So the Magic Kingdom is looking to become Main Street, Piratesland, Frontierland (but how much longer?), Liberty Square, Fantasyland, and Pixarland.

Is this what Walt would have done?

Meh.

Losing Harry Potter seems fine. Will Harry Potter be timeless? Or will people cringe at a Harry Potter themed anything 15 years from now, much like they would at anything Roger Rabbit themed?

Even less timeless is Pirates. Redoing an entire section of the park in its image seems an awful idea.

I dislike comparing Pirates to The Matrix, but it works. The franchise was riding extremely high after the first movie, but the second movie hurt many people and the third was added insult. As a result the franchise is mostly insignficant, even the video games are flopping. Pirates has had the exact same effect on some people. Nowhere near as many, but still some.

Adventureland might be old, but it's got appeal to everyone.

A Pirateland would lose some of that appeal. People that dislike the second and third movies would likely try to avoid the section altogether. And, over time, interest would dwindle. Everything would age quickly as pop culture ages quickly.

Rides tied to movies, fine. Sections of parks tied to movies, not as fine.

Five to ten years from now everyone will regret it.

"I can't believe I'm going to say this ... I agree with askmike."

If it makes you feel better, I like the new Tiki Room (at least better than the borefest that was the original). Still, I wouldn't mind at all if they destroyed it.

Id be most excited for the Black Pearl to be honest.

Having read the descriptions of both the Pirateland and the Wizarding World of Harry Potter--I'd probably spend more time at the Harry Potter attraction.

Disney really needs to step up on this. I don't think Narnia is necessary the answer because the main characters change from book to book. I really enjoyed reading the Narnia series, but I'm looking forward to the new Harry movie much more than Prince Caspian.

This sounds really promising to me.  The PoTC overlay of Tom Sawyer's Island at Disneyland gives me hope that this could be done elegantly.  I prefer Disneyland's Adventureland, mostly due to it's feeling of immediacy and focused themeing.  WDW's has too many cultural references (African, Polynesian, Middle Eastern, Spanish, etc.) so it doesn't feel as cohesive as it's California cousin.  I disagree that it needs the jungles and the South Pacific feel for its meaning.  WDW needs the Magic Kingdom's Adventureland to be a markedly difference experience from Animal Kingdom's Africa and Asia.  The worlds of the PoTC films are lush and enigmatic enough to inspire the same level of mystery and adventure as an African setting.  Doing this would also allow for more room for PoTC-based attractions without the need of shoehorning them into the original attraction.

I would guess that the Jungle Cruise would stay the same.  The film version is set for release in 2009, so it wouldn't make sense to make it Pirate's Jungle Cruise.  As that film will certainly follow the PoTC formula, it should fit in (at least in tone) to the revised Adventureland.

Personally, I think Pirate themes are rich enough not to just be a "land"... but possibly a separate park altogether. Pirates VS Potter?  I think a "Pirate land" will have longevity.... as long as you include MORE than just what's from the movies. Its an historical era. Treat it that way. Potter will be great for a few years... but I don't see people flocking 20 years from now. Thats why there is no "Wizard of Oz" land. I agree with the person who suggested the best way to compete with Potter directly is to expand the Star Wars areas.

As far as changing things that already exist? My thoughts are mixed depending on whether you are talking Disneyland... or Disney World.

Changing "adventure land" into "pirate land" .... bad idea. There is more to "adventure" than pirates and capt Jack sparrow or really any movie. The island/jungle theme of the land is more universal as it is. Don't mess with it. (Although I like the idea of turning Tom Sawyers Isle or a portion of it into a pirate themed zone in California).

Changing the TIKI room? CA - No way... preserve Walts original. Florida - certainly... anything is better than that Iago / Zazu stuff.

There has got to be more to these parks than just more advertising for movies. It’s no question that Country Bears were yanked out of "Critter" country in California to make way for Pooh.... obviously to better promote a series of new DVD and cartoon releases. BAD IDEA. These kids grow up.

Believe it or not... some people may love the parks.... not everyone likes every Disney movie or cartoon nor should they have to in order to enjoy the park.

The phrase ... "as long as there is imagination left in the word" doesn't mean much when you base everything on a movie.

If you believe that "Disney" is not horribly upset about losing Harry Potter to Universal, I have some nice swamp land you might want to buy, and it ain't anywhere near WDW.  Can y'all say "Rationalization"?  Jim Hill, come on!  Even you can't believe this spin.

Ah, the old Raging Spirits rumor returns. They will not put this ride in at MK. They would be idiots if they did. Raging Spirits/Indy is considered a horrible coaster and has crappy capacity. How they got OLC to put it in DisneySea is beyond me. I don't mind having a new coaster but for the love of god it better be a different one than the Raging Spirits/Indy ride. That would be a disaster. You know if they are going to build a new Pirates restaurant why don't they just build one. I know they have plans for HKDL to build Tortuga with a restaurant. I just don't see them converting Adventureland into Pirateland. That would be just awful. If they want to build a separate pirate are like Tortuga nest to POTC I think that would be great. Now if they would just get all those rehabs/upgrades done to HM, SM and JC that would be great. Then bring over HMH and IASWH and maybe MK would actually be an enjoyable park during the holidays. Thus ends my rant.

I'm all for a pirates redo of Adventureland. After all, even if people get tired of PotC, the concept of Pirates is always appealing. Pirates are the epitome of adventure, so who better to take up residency in Adventureland?

I'd give Potter a good 5 years before assessing longevity. Right now, I get about the same number of hours each week on my iPod on Potter as I do on Disney Parks but is that going to be the case once they've discussed HP to death?

A park presence can help keep a brand alive- look at Star Wars and Indy with movies made or greenlit _after_ the ride. But I honestly think Universal has taken a real gamble on this. Granted, if it does hold up at anything near where it stands right now- it will have been a bargain for Universal. But then again, it might just be that the licensing fees (between 2 parties, no less) will eventually cost more than they make from this HP part of IOA.

“Disneyland is a work of love. We didn’t go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money.”

-Walt Disney

http://imagineerebirth.blogspot.com/

http://miceage.com/kevinyee/ky052907a.htm

Well, I must admit, the team at Universal  has come up with something to get me to go back. I swore I'd never go back after BTTF was shut down, but I will need to hit IOA once to see this HP stuff, being that I'm a HUGE Potter fan.

As for the Adventureland thing, I have mixed feelings.

I don't want to see the whole area made into one big Pirates store, but on the other hand something needs to be done there. The Pirate restaurant, and new "E" ride would be exceedingly cool.

As for the movies, peraps because I'm a huge comic book reader, I was able to follow DMC, and AWE very easily. I thought AWE was quie good, in fact.

I'm excited for the Harry Potter island.  Thanks for the follow-up.  But what's going to happen with Posideon's Adventure?  A Wizard's Duel Special Effect show??  Or something completely different?

If I had a choice between Pirateland & Harry Potter, Harry Potter all the way.  Even though I'm not a big fan of the film series and book.

I'm not very heart broken that Disney didn't get Potter.

I would have thought Disney's answer be Narnia.  But more like how Indiana Jones Adventure was approached.  You don't really have to completely know the film character and the attraction mixes in different elements from all the movies.  They need to do more with Narnia in the future, I hope they're working on an attraction for the franchise.

A 1 film attraction is great.  But some people would like to be even more immersed in that film environment without having to go on a ride.  Which is why I'm fine with these "movie lands".

WDW's Liberty Square is like DL's New Orleans Square.  So having WDW's Pirateland be equivalent to DL's Adventureland kinda makes sense to me.  Pirates would give more consistency in WDW's AL.  Theirs wants to cover too much area while DL's covers mainly the jungles of Africa, Hawaii, India, and Arabian desert oasis.  They all kind of blend and merged with each other.  The areas in WDW's AL stands out more.  And I've been waiting a long time for a Raging Spirits type of ride themed around the Fountain of Youth.  But hopefully with more track layout, longer ride, and more theme.  Like having those mythical creatures (Chupakapras (sp)) as a threat to your goal.  Maybe some sort of Fire God with the tornado seen from DisneySea's Indy ride as well.

A pirate themed land? Great. Don't tear apart Adventureland and its time-tested rides that have lasted 30,40,50 years - they lasted for a reason. Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse lets you explore and burn off energy. If the Jungle Cruise starts failing to draw a crowd, (which I haven't seen yet) it can easily be plussed. Especially if a Jungle Cruise movie is coming out - don't rip out the ride. (Why did the Disney Store discount all the Pirate action figures two weeks before World's End debuted? I realize the packaging said Dead Man's Chest, but kids still want Capt Jack figures. Discount 'em in a couple more months when the fad dies down.)

Now, take your drawings of Tortuga, your life size Black Pearl, a few parrots, and some treasure maps and drop them all on that island just off the Contemporary - the one that used to be a bird sanctuary. Now it becomes Capt Jack's excursions to Pirate Isle. Fully immersive experience. Separate ticket/admission fee.  Cha-ching. Five years later, pirates fad starts to dwindle, island becomes seasonal, then closes up again like it has in the past, no harm no foul.

Remember, a few years back, Universal opened one of the great all-time theme park rides - Spiderman - long before the movies were released. It was thought Disney would step up and create a fantastic new E Ticket to compete. That never really happened. Disney's attendance levels never seriously dipped, so why react - tourists are still coming anyway. If people are drawn to Potterland, they will probably stop by WDW after flying all that way - Disney Co probably won't notice a serious $$$ shift.

Now you've got Universal with a big licensee name, but not big rides. The dueling dragon coaster has been there for quite a while, the kiddie coaster has been there a while, flying in the Weasley car sounds kinda like flying in a DeLorean. Yes it's a themed area, but unless there's more coming that wasn't announced, this isn't worth flying to Florida for. Was that all Disney was going to do? Make Rockin Rollercoaster into the TriWizard Tournament ride?

Licensing is highly overrated, and usually ends up being a trap. Star Wars characters are popular, but Star Tours has never been updated - the technology is there - just can't do it. Disney already holds thousands of character licenses outright - use them if you must on your rides. Disney Co doesn't need to be competing for licensed characters. Walt and his imagineers got it all wrong - they didn't call it the "African Queen Jungle Cruise" or "Zorro's Ride through Nature's Wonderland" or "Humphrey's Country Jamboree" or "Long John Silver's Pirate Ride". Basing a ride on a movie property is no guarantee of success. The Tower of Terror would be just as successful without licensing the Twilight Zone, and the Indiana Jones darkride could easily work as Aladdin's Cave of Wonders.

Make good rides, make them so the whole family can experience them together. You don't need a media-friendly title for your rides. The media come down to Florida for a week. I'm sure sometime during that week you can explain what the new ride is about.

A pirate themed land? Great. Don't tear apart Adventureland and its time-tested rides that have lasted 30,40,50 years - they lasted for a reason.

1) Disney World as a whole has only been around for 36 years, so I have no idea where you are getting those number from.

2) Magic Carpets hasn't even been there for more than 7 years.

3) Tiki Room UNM has only been around for about 9 or so years

4) Swiss Family Treehouse has been there since day one, but is not in the least bit popular. In fact, the Disneyland version had to be turned into Tarzan's Treehouse.

Obviously Pirates wouldn't be going, and I'd be very surprised if JC had any more than a theming makeover.

"It was thought Disney would step up and create a fantastic new E Ticket to compete. That never really happened. "

Are you freakin' kidding me? SM opened in 1999. Since that time, Disney has built Rock 'n' Rollercoaster (also 1999), Mission: Space, Test Track, Soarin', and not to mention that little thing called Expedition Everest! And that's just to name a FEW.

curmudgeon, you took the words right out of my... um, post. Discovery Island was originally planned to be a pirate-themed island (it originally had the name Treasure Island), but Disney decided they didn't want to spend to the money to carry out the plans, so it became a bird and animal park and its name got changed to Discovery Island. Imagine the Pirates Lair concept from DL on steroids - let Imagineering run wild on this one - and then price it equivalent to Discovery Cove, with limited entry per day and premium pricing. (I don't think the island and the boat transportation system could handle throngs of people going to the island.) There'd be tons of people clamoring to get on the island and I have no doubt that Disney could blow Potterland out of the water.

I'm not thrilled about the idea of re-making Adventureland into Pirateland. Admittedly, Adventureland seems to be a jumble of different "exotic lands" concepts, but making the land into a pirate-themed area isn't the way to resolve it.

Besides, I'm really getting tired of Disney resorting to the same old "favorite flavors" to jazz up attendance or to push merchandise sales;  at the rate they've been going recently, I'm expecting that eventually everything in all the parks is going to be pirates, princesses, Pooh, Pixar, or Fab Five.  Is a little more orginality too much to ask?

Admittedly, for anything to come to fruition at WDW, Potterland's got to be a big enough hit to boost Uni's attendance figures significantly and/or cause Disney's figures to drop. It'd be neat if it happened, but we've been here before; Uni promises stuff that'll raise the bar in Orlando significantly, but once the new attractions open at Uni, they go over with a big thud; Disney's attendance figures are basically unaffected, and WDP&R decides that a C-ticket  attraction or two or another marketing promotion is all that the parks need to do to remain the top dog in Central Florida. We'll see what happens...

"Why does it always have to be one upending the other?"

That's what drives the machine!  Would you rather Disney simply did nothing?  I'd like to see Disney impress me and continue to earn my money!!!  

"This is blasphemy!  It's okay to rework rides because rides are rides.  What we are talking about is a complete rework of what Walt Disney believed Disneyland/The Magic Kingdom to be."

Walt once said that Disneyland will never be finished...that it will always be a work in progress.  Personally I tend to think that if Walt had been with us for part of these past 40 years, a whole lot more would have changed at the theme parks than has since his passing.  

"If you believe that "Disney" is not horribly upset about losing Harry Potter to Universal, I have some nice swamp land you might want to buy, and it ain't anywhere near WDW.  Can y'all say "Rationalization"?  Jim Hill, come on!  Even you can't believe this spin."

Do you REALLY think Disney would have been out-bid or beaten on the creative front if they wanted the HP rights that badly?  

I don't mind change. But I think that Walt looked at Disneyland as a separate venture than his movies and with the exception of Fantasy Land.... the rest of the park should be original and something new. We go to the movies for one experience... and we go to the parks for another. Let the parks take us somewhere the movies do not. I think over the years TOO MANY attractions are based on movies. Get away from that.

A pirate themed land was a good idea before there were three movies made about POTC. Before Jack Sparrow was REAL history, real pirates, real locations etc.

I don't think that the people at the top would be as stupid as to tear up adventure land in order to market three movies that will be sitting in the back row of multimedia cabinets by the time the renovation was complete. ... and they don't even know if there will be more films yet.

Not to mention that if you were to create a whole land like POTC with all new state of the art, fast moving thrills .... then maybe the original ride will start to look simple and quaint.... and fade away like Tiki Room or Country Bears.

Yikes

tjkraz said:

Walt once said that Disneyland will never be finished...that it will always be a work in progress.  Personally I tend to think that if Walt had been with us for part of these past 40 years, a whole lot more would have changed at the theme parks than has since his passing.  

Yes, Disneyland is never finished, but what was proposed is a complete rethemeing of a land to fit a franchise movie.  It wasn't just "Adventure Stories", it was supposed to be based off True-Life adventures including animals.  Walt wanted the Jungle Cruise to feature real animals.  Walt used to disguise himself so he could ride his beloved Jungle Cruise.  Even the Jungle Cruise was changed from a serious look at life in the wild to a comedic Bob Hope/Bing Crosby road show movie.  (Think of the Road to .... episodes of Family Guy with Brian and Stewie).  Plusing rides (ala Pirates 2.0), that's fine.  Removing a theme, that's different.

I defending Adventureland at WDW because if they change it to Piratesland, then all of the Adventurelands could be doomed.

I agree with TechGuy.

Its kind of depressing to me that Disney continually neglects their best work in favor of whats the latest fad. The "Pirate" movies are entertaining, but I wouldn't say they are the phenomenon "Harry Potter" is. People are already growing tired of "Pirates"; I've heard from so many people that they hated the latest film. The films have recieved mixed reviews at best. It just seems a bit silly to entirely convert Adventureland into Pirate land; people may enjoy the films, but I'm not sure if they are enough of a draw. I even like some of the ideas (touring the Black Pearl would be cool; and a tavern could be a lot of fun) but as a whole, it doesn't seem that well thought out. Why not dedicate that area of the park solely to ADVENTURE? Peter Pan, Pirates, Aladdin, Hercules even. They have a wealth of films to choose from and they should honor as many as they can. Not just the film thats able to hold the #1 spot at the Box Office for two or three weeks. Like mentioned, an Indiana Jones attraction would be great! The one at Disneyland is one of my favorites.

I have the same problem with Pixar invading Disney World terrain. And what is up with the latest Monster Inc attraction? It sounds exactly like Turtle Talk with Crush. What is so exciting about a film screen that interacts with you? Is this really the best they have to offer? I haven't experienced either of these attractions, so I apologize in advance if they are truly amazing. It just seems that if they really want to continually better themselves and stay ahead of the competition, they should come up with more original ideas. Why not have a restaurant themed after "Be Our Guest" from "Beauty and the Beast"? Or have the flying magic carpets actually sail over story sets of "Aladdin"? These films will always be classics. Its 4AM I'm just throwing ideas out there.

We're forgetting something pretty big here, IMNSHO.  "Creativity".  That minor detail seems to be greatly lacking in the last 2 Pirates films.  Yes, they had this huge box office, but what they really had was a little bit of story buried under loads of special effects.  Great for the kiddies for a while.

Most kids I've ever met have a very short attention span.

Now they are talking about reworking the Disney theme parks to take advantage of the Pirates phenomenon.  They'd better hurry.

So Universal got Potter, etal, eh?

I hope they are fully aware of the size of that tiger they've got by the tail.

The fans will be deadly if the park doesn't live up to expectations.  And that fan base is bigger than anything Pirates can command and they are very, very vocal.  Not to mention organized.  And, Rowling and Company can hold the bar up pretty high.

I'm reminded of that phrase ... Be careful what you ask for.  You might get it.

As for Disney, what we are seeing is the sad result of too many bean counters and too few creative minds.  But that situation is prevalent all throughout the "entertainment" industry.  It took people who looked beyond the bottom line of the accountant's books to create Disneyland, etal.  

I never cease to be amazed at how many people are actively engaged in what happens  on Disney property...well into adulthood.  There seems to be a lot of fretting over turning Adventureland into a different Adventureland.  When I left Disney, the parks hadn't yet been turned into a mega Disney store by Paul Pressler, the "freight train" as one WDI executive called him.  That was seventeen years ago and I haven't been back.  Maybe it's time to visit again...I'll take my grandkids when Pirates is completed.

Wow... quite a few different opinions here. Personally, I think an entire re-theming of Adventureland is wrong, however adding more pirates to the land would be ok by me. POTC Ride has been a Disney staple for... well...since Disneyland opened, remember the outcry when WDW didnt have it, and they had to jam it in? I think ading to the pirate contingent in MK is a good idea, pirates are timeless -regardless if they dont hold up against the kiddie fare today or not, the fact the ride has existed and thrived for over 50 years is proff that pirates are popular as a theme park attraction.

I really liked the idea about turning discovery island into a Tortuga or whatever, I had not thought about that, great idea. However lets assume that they powers that be only want to increase their pirate levels in the MK park itself.

So... where does it go? Do they tear out existing structures? Move them? Lets think about this for a moment.... Lets say that the JC needs an update due to the movie coming out. Do we get rid of the ride? Heck no... we move the ride. There is land behind MS USA and on the other side of the railway tracks. The JC loading area can move to but no one says the course has to be the same.

Now in the vacant land from the "old" JC course make potc ride better and longer. Add more scenes add the black peral battling the flying dutchman, our boats can go around the whirlpool with these two battling boats. Add the bayou scene which should have always been there and maybe one other scene from the movie.

I also like the idea of chaning Tom Sawyer Island to a pirate island, I know getting people to the island has always been a problem (riverboat capacity sucks!) So why not build a pirate ship (Black pearl?) that is somethign to explore and acts as a bridge to the island? Yes... yes.... I know it does pose a problem for the Riverboat.... I'm not sure what to do about that one.

Also I would add a "E" ticket ride just west of POTC ont eh other side of the rail tracks. I know this area would be top heavy with "E" rides (Splash Mountain, Big Thunder) and thats where the smart guys at WDW would worry about crowd control etc... I just think of the big ideas. I would like a ride using either the Spiderman or indy Ride technology.

Here is the thing... WDW alrady has a stron track record with Pirates, as for Harry Potter... well the last book is coming out, 2 more movies after this one (maybe 3) after that what vehicle will there be to inspire new generations of Potter fans? Star wars is lucky they have spanned to new generations thanks to (love or hate them) the prequils. I dont see Potter having much life after the last movie... I could be wrong, but... just a feeling.

Also last note... I agree with those who said not EVERY ride needs to be themed after a movie, I like that many of the original rides were just stand alone. Look at it this way would POTC movies have been made if all rides were built on movies? The ride wouldnt have existed until aftert he movie was made. However if theming rides after movies means more development into rides, then maybe its not that bad. (I am only refering to MK here, I know other parks make rides not based on movies)

soor this was so long... had lots to say.

Whatever WDI chooses to do with Adventureland, I think we're past the time when we need to worry what "Walt wanted" for the Magic Kingdom or for any of its lands. I doubt that Walt planned for Main Street, U.S.A. to be one giant merchandise store, or for 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea to sit vacant for years, or for the Downtown Disney Area to exist at all. The point is, Walt couldn't have imagined a lot of what's happened at WDW, and that doesn't make it any less entertaining or enjoyable.

I loved the original Pirates attraction, and I love Haunted Mansion, and Space Mountain and all of the classic attractions, but at some point are Disney fans getting blinded by nostalgia? Call it blasphemy if you'd like, but some of the "classic" rides really suck as attractions (DLR's Enchanted Tiki Room and Matterhorn top the list).

Walt's legacy isn't specific 50-year-old rides--it's the concept of creating richly themed, immersive attractions that Guests look forward to experiencing over and over again. Disney is still the best at this, and as long as they keep this in mind (rather than clinging to specific, outdated rides), they always will be.

Tomoyo said, "A park presence can help keep a brand alive- look at Star Wars and Indy with movies made or greenlit _after_ the ride."

You really think it was Star Tours and the Epic Stunt show that kept Star Wars and Indy in the public eye?!?!?  If anything, it was the enduring popularity of each franchise that kept people interested in the theme park offerings.

Cosmic Ray said:

"Whatever WDI chooses to do with Adventureland, I think we're past the time when we need to worry what "Walt wanted" for the Magic Kingdom or for any of its lands. I doubt that Walt planned for Main Street, U.S.A. to be one giant merchandise store, or for 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea to sit vacant for years, or for the Downtown Disney Area to exist at all. The point is, Walt couldn't have imagined a lot of what's happened at WDW, and that doesn't make it any less entertaining or enjoyable."

Walt would be saddened to know that E.P.C.O.T. was never built.  Considering it was one of the final things he planned out on the hospital ceiling for his brother before he died.  WDI ignores the original design.  They stuck it in a dark corridor on the TTA instead of housing the original designs in the Epcot Park.

What about the Jungle Cruise francise-tentpole movie that is supposedly being worked on? Could that too influence this possible Adventurine-Piratesland? Interesting...

Disney has a new Swiss Family Robinson movie coming out in '07 or '08.  The Treehouse ain't going anywhere.

The reason all we get these days is an interactive video screen.... is because we keep paying for the rising price of a ticket.

These interactive "attractions" while cool .... are something that could be installed at your local mall.

Why invest in a $35 million dollar ride.... when you can build a $5000 video screen and have some programmers and artists do the rest.... and still charge $63 dollars a head to see it?

I was always dissapointed with the Adventureland of WDW or DL for that matter. It did not have a true adventure "I am lost in the jungle" feel. That is why I am very glad that they moved into the right direction with Adventureland in Disneyland Paris. I believe that is they do change the WDW adventureland it is for the best, as now it looks very chaotic, no clear theme. Disneyland Paris adventureland really gives a person the feeling he is exploring! The caves, long bridges and overgrowth of bamboo make you feel you feel you are some place far away. It is also very Pirate themed. The place has a skull rock, huge captain hook pirate ship, mermaid lagoon and underground caverns with pirate treasure's and not to forget the PoC ride itself.

But I do hope they have a better anwser to the move of Universal to make a Potter Land. A tortuga Island could be very promising, and be good competition for Potterto be honost. They need to go by it the right way though, give it a real "cosy" but "dirty" pirates feel. A Pirate Tavern would be amazing, as long as they do not turn it into a restaurant. Have the tavern with a pirate band, and serve only drinks and small snacks. Sell real alcoholic bevrages for adults, and for the kids why not have alcoholic free beer or fruitbeer. Keep it real, so that people really feel as if they are on Tortuga, accomplish that and you have a winner in your hands. To me that sounds better and more exciting than a Narnia franchise land due to the complex world of Narnia. If you have Pirate Land you can dress up people to look like pirates. Have a Narnia land and it would be really hard to have realistic costumes  where people look like centaurs and little talking bevers (as there are no humans in Narnia) .  

Just my two cents :)

Tmerman said: "Sell real alcoholic bevrages for adults, and for the kids why not have alcoholic free beer or fruitbeer. "

None of the Magic Kingdoms (at least stateside, I don't know about elsewhere) will ever sell Alcholoic Beverages.  The only excepion is the exclusive Club 33 because well, it's exclusive and not open to the public.  This mandate came from Walt Disney himself.  You can get Alcoholic drinks on WDW property, just not in the Magic Kingdom.

I always felt the old Skyway landing point in Fantasyland would be a great place for Grumpy's Tavern.  A place to get a tall, frosty mug of Rootbeer and scoops of Ice Cream.  WDW used to sell shirts advertising a fictional rootbeer tavern named Grumpy's Tavern.

Just a side note for Techguy, California Adventure does have a wine tasting area.  It's the first place I hit up when I arrive. :P

michguy said above that the Swiss Family Treehouse isn't going anywhere, due to an upcoming remake of the Swiss Family Robinson. Couldn't the Imagineers or whoever just transplant the tree over to Disney/MGM? It is a "tree" after all:)

Yes there is alcohol on Disney Properties, but the Magic Kingdoms (Disneyland and WDW) do not sell Alcohol.  You can get drinks from around the world at EPCOT, you can get beer at MGM, even Downtown Disney sells various drinks.  The Magic Kingdoms have not and will not sell Alcohol, with the exception of Club 33 at Disneyland.  That's the way Walt wanted it to be.

DailyRich> Speaking as someone born a little too late to see any of the Star Wars OT  in their original theatrical run, my main memories up until the mid-90s  were related to the ride. And I imagine the same is true of my little sister with Indy. For generations that came after the movie a theme park presence is a way to maintain and develop brand awareness. Not the only way, mind you, but a decent starting point with a location that will always have the films available for sale and some merchandise. I do think it contributes to a brand's longevity long after its story has been told. And I think that'll be the case with Potter, if done correctly and kept up.

And Swiss Family Remake doesn't necessarily mean the treehouse won't go down anyway. Country Bears went down in Anaheim months before the film, although it still had another one in the US- unlike SFT. But the Tarzan overlay's recent troubles lead me to believe it can't simply be moved.

I think turning Adventureland into Pirateland would honestly be great - partly because the Pirates attraction/concept was one that Disney - and by that I mean Walt Disney - dreamed up himself. It's a Disney original. And if it were done right it would be a huge boost to the parks, and easily be on a par with Universal's Potter attraction.

But once again I have to ask....what about NARNIA!!!!!! I haven't heard SQUAT about any attraction based on that very successful film based on a timeless classic that the "Potter" books can't even touch in terms of quality, imagery and creativity. A Narnia attraction would be great in either Fantasyland or that waste of space that is the Animal Kingdom. The only good thing about that place is the Tree of Life - the rest of it is just a damn zoo no matter how the Disney admeisters spin it. I don't understand why Disney isn't making more of their rights to a British fantasy tale that is more than equal to "Potter" and has stood the test of time. Have you heard *anything* regarding any imagineering plans for Narnia, Jim?

I think the problem with Narnia ... is that the story.... at least for the first Chapter.... takes place in a forest or on the plains.   How much can you really do with that?  I can see a major attraction.... but a whole themed land? I don't know about that. Perhaps by the time all the chapters are done in movie form... there would be enough to work with ... but thats going to be another 10 years.

I still think that STAR WARS is a better bet as far as dirrect competition with Potter. There are just so many locations that could be explored. And the ride ideas could be endless. With the new animated series coming out in 2008 and who knows what after that ....

Who knows... maybe Lucas wants to make his own park eventually.

Adventureland is ripe for a major overall.  If you look at the amount of land it occupies, my guess is that it's not attracting the kind of traffic it should.  A pirates re-theming of the entire land could work (if you replace the bazaar with, say, Tortuga you could integrate shopping and restaurants).  The POTC ride can remain as-is with just some minor architectural changes to make it flow together.

Magic Carpets would have to go, as would Jungle Cruise and Tiki Room.  Tiki Room would be difficult to do much with, as it's adjacent to Country Bear.  I'm not sure whether Swiss Family Treehouse would necessarily have to go, but it could be rethemed into something from Dead Man's Chest or At World's End.  But it's all doable.

The appropriate term here is "sour grapes".

Disney is missing out on the biggest franchise since Star Wars.

Personally, I haven't been to a theme park in years.  The Potter thing would be reason to visit, unless they botch it.  The pirates stuff sounds cool, but wouldn't be enough reason for me to make a trip just for that.

Jim Hill Readers: Meet Grain of Salt. Grain of salt, meet the Jim Hill readers...

Hmmm, so 1st of all I need to say all of you shouting 'WHAT WOULD WALT DO!?', stop. Walt was a business man, and he was a showman. Its near impossible to say what he would do re: re-theming an area of his park. He stated Disneyland (and later world) would always be changing, meeting the needs of the population around it. Stop hypothosizing about what he would think, there is no way to know.

I'm sure this is on the drawing table.....but I dont see it moving past that. I hope Pirates becomes a timeless fanchise for Disney. But if it doesnt, what a way to ruin an area that doesnt have problems getting people in.

DONT GET ME WRONG I WOULD GO NUTS IF THEY DID THIS AND TAKE OUT A LOAN AND SPEND A LOT OF MONEY ON ALL THE MERCHANDISE BECAUSE IM A PIRATE FANTATIC.

I think Universal is going to ruin the world of potter. Honestly. Not initially. no. Initally it will look cool. But once Universal has it built and the throngs of brats who are 'going to puke if they have to hug another princess' come through, and while their parents arent watching them, are ripping props up. And while the elements ruin the snow, and time lets mold grow on things, you will enter the Dilapidated world of Harry Potter in about 2010, 2011.

Why for do I make that conclusion? Go to Universal/IOA right now. Check out the exposed gizmos/boning on the Jaws animatronics (doesnt look so real anymore). Get on Jurassic Park and check out the first Dinosaur on your left, his mold line, at the water line, reveils its been awhile since hes left that spot. Walk through the Spiderman que and check out all the missing keyboard keys, missing phone parts, falling apart computers and general scratchyness of the cubicle area. Universal has great ideas, but terrible follow-through and upkeep.

And capacity issues? lol. lots of people are going to come to universal and be PISSED they will have to either shell out $50 for an express pass (on top of reg. admission), or wait 3 hours in line for these HP attractions. Thats my biggest complaint of IOA/Universal. No fastpass. And im NOT spending $50 to bypass the lines. Nor am i going to waste $250 to stay overnight when I live an hour away.

Im just not concerned. Go to Universal, ride Shrek and watch them poke fun at the theme park that does it better. Get on Twister, and stand around in a room with wind machines and signs on strings. Ride the mummy with effects that never work. Stand in line 3 hours to ride the Hulk, and then get in line to experience HP, and the updated Delorean, I mean Flying Car attraction, and buy yourself some chocolate frogs.

Cant wait to see it. But cant wait to see what Disney has in store in the future as well. Not as an answer to a controlling abomination of a woman. (JK rolling)

My money will always be better spent at Disney.

"abomination"?

Wow, that's harsh for someone who's created some of the most popular and beloved characters of recent years.  She's created this universe, and she SHOULD make sure that licensing stays true to the books.  It baffles me why that should inspire such vitrol.

While I like Harry Potter, I think gurgitoy2 is right. With Eisner gone, Lucas might jump at the chance to bring a new Star Wars attraction to life (or park ... you know there's enough of the franchise to build one). And that would kick Harry Potter's butt any day.

I'll gladly run to IOA to see a Harry Potter-themed land, but guys like me all over the country would geek out over a Star Wars park. The franchise has stood the test of time. And while Potter will have more movies in the long run (7 to 6), three of the Star Wars films are movie classics. Empire is considered one of the best films ever. You can't beat that, J.K. Rowling.  

"You can't beat that, J.K. Rowling."

In case you hadn't noticed, JKR is an author.  She writes books.  I'm not exactly sure how you'd consider a movie to "beat" a book, it's apples and oranges.

Harry Potter World might be the first thing that makes me want to go to USIOA since I left Orlando four years ago.  Now, when we go with the kids and stay on property, we spend our time at Disney.

I may have to pony for some US passes.

I'm dizzy from reading all of that.

I am STRONGLY opposed to changing Adventureland into Pirateland (or whatever name). No land should ever be themed to ONE movie. Make Adventureland more piratey-themed... fine. Add another pirates themed ride even... fine.

I would hate to come to Disneyland one day and look at a map to find:

Pirateland, Pixarland, Narnialand, etc,...

Adventureland DOES need some TLC in a big way... but NOT THIS.

I don't think replacing a walk thru attraction with another walk thru attraction and adding a coaster, and a restaurant is really going to make Adventureland much better or really all that different or more piratey for that matter....coasters = piratey...eh not really......now I'm a huge pirate fan but I would rather they NOT give Adventureland and pirate make over.....

I would rather they really go all out and build a huge pirate area at the studios... Take a page from the Disney Seas' Volcania/20K area.  Build Tortuga or Port Royal that would serve as a "Main Street" with Shipwrek Cove as the main area....have the walk through Black Pearl located at the dock here....build SC like it is in the film sitting in a crater looking thing....the actually pile o ships in the middle could be the pirates themed restaurant....around the inner perimeter of the crater there could be an E ticket or two...perhaps a Pirate dark ride using EMV technology.....Go for total immersion....from the time you enter Tortuga/Port Royal..whatever....you are in the films...DisneySea theming as opposed to California Adventure..

Borrow a page from Pirate Lair at Disneyland and incorporate some of those ideas here as well.....I really think Imagineering could really go all out and do up a really well done, well themed pirate area if they just started from scratch rather than shoehorning some new ideas into an established area....

And two pirate attractions at two different parks you say?  How many parks have Nemo....or Mermaid?  More than one my friends...

Lets not forget the upcoming Jungle Cruise movie.  How could Disney retheme adventureland into a Pirate dominate theme and leave the Jungle Cruise intact?  I'm in favor of updating Adventureland but leave it the way it is.  I'm still cringing at the whole Pirate's Lair/Tom Sawyer Island debacle.  Lets go with one or the other.  

Why doesn't Disney redo River Country into a Pirate themed water park?  They can build a replica of the Black Pearl out there on the lake.  With WDI interactive kick they could build a fort on land that can duel the Black Pearl with water cannons.  

Just my two dubloons

I am perplexed by the tendancy of people on these boards to dismiss Harry Potter offhand or to  villify JK Rowling. I have loved all things Disney since I was a wee one (I'm twenty seven now), but I have also fallen head over heels for the world of Harry Potter. Some  people's nasty attitudes make me wonder: does a love of Disney neccesitate blind hatred for all other brands?

First of all, I strongly disagree with all the people who are saying that a Pirates-themed Park or rethemed Adventureland would 'outdo' a Harry Potter park or have greater longevity. Harry Potter is beloved by children and adults alike and has been a phenomenon for a decade now. As well, Harry Potter is not only a hit movie franchise: it is at its core a popular series of books. A book series has an ability to continually renew its fanbase in a way that most movies are not able to.

On the other hand, POTC is merely a succeful movie trilogy that has been a going concern for only four years (The last movie was panned critically and certainly isn't making as much of a splash as the previous two.) Making a theme park based entirely on POTC would make about much sense as one based on The Matrix or Back To The Future.

Lastly, the 'world' of Pirates does not approach the wonderfully Dickensian and 'rich' world of Harry Potter. POTC hardly offers the substance to sustain its own theme park (or re-themed Adventureland). Don't misunderstand me, I personally loved the first two POTC movies. But what made them wonderfully entertaining movies were the fresh spin they gave a stale and old-fashioned genre. Verbinski invested his Pirate films with the verve and vigour of a Michael Bay action flick and gave the Pirates a world that was stylized without being overly cartoony.

My point is that, beneath Verbinski's great moviemaking (and Depp's wonderful turn as Sparrow), is a world that's filled with characters, situations, and settings that are cliched. In other words, the world of Pirates is a shallow one, hardly the stuff theme parks are made of.

And to 'Yeti': I highly doubt the popularity of Star Wars with the under-thirty set is   equal to that of Potter.

(Sorry, I didn't mean this to become some rambling, pro-Potter rant...)

You know, Disney has already built a land that was centered on pirates.

Yea, it was built in 1973, it's called Caribbean Plaza, and they didn't even have to remove all of Adventureland to build it!

Seriously, Disney will not completely destroy all of Adeventureland and theme it all to the pirates. The Jungle Cruise most likely cannot be touched, as it is a Disney classic. The Aladdin ride can easily be replaced, but the Tiki Room will have to stay, because it shares facilities with the Country Bear Jamboree (which also will never go anywhere), and besides it occupies only a small space.

The Swiss Family Treehouse was completely rebuilt only 10 years ago, and since the Tarzan redo didn't happen in 1999 it will never happen. True, the Treehouse can't be described as popular, but it is cheap to operate (basically just cleaning, some lights, and occassionally one cast member by the entrance), it would be terribly expensive to rip out (it's "roots" go down forty or so feet into the ground), and is an attraction that can soak up excess crowds (people love anything without a line; the Treehouse by definition really never has a line, as the line and the attraction are one in the same, even if I have seen days where it has a ten-minute wait). Besides, this is one of the only attractions that is virtually unchanged from opening day, and it provides a nice, relaxed atmosphere for the entire land.

Disney, however, may just go ahead and rehab Caribbean Plaza as a separate land, as it is one of the most underutilized areas of the park. There is land beyond the railroad tracks, and its probably better to get something entirely new out there than it would be to get our present Adventureland with some new paint and a bunch of Jolly Rogers.

Someone mentioned a retheming of River Country...why not.  I think a Pirate themed water park is a no brainer.  Bits of artwork that made it online shows that they have considered this. If Disney opened a pirates area at the newly named Disney/Pixar studios and at the same time opened a Pirates themed water park.... that would be quite a one, two punch worth of pirates......

----------------------------------

Tortuga Traders

Imports from the caribbean and beyond...

http://www.cafepress.com/tortuga_traders

Badlactose -

You win. Your pro-potter rant sold me. I think that a Harry Potter themed "land" will do better and last longer than a POTC land ever would.

UNLESS ...

1. ...The actors and actresses that the under 30 set have been watching all these years in the movies do not allow their likenesses used for the park. (Why Harrison Ford didn't allow himself in Indiana Jones is still a sore spot for me). Face it.... the land will be build after the movies ... not the books.

2. ...A "pirate land" at Disney is not merely an advertisment for the movies but rather a tribute to an era. In other words.... more GENERIC pirates and historical references than strictly POTC stuff. A historicly acurate 16th century Caribbean town doesn't automaticly say POTC 1, 2, or 3 to me.

3. ...They scrap a pirate section and expand Star Wars. I am going to hold my ground on this one. Star Wars offers sci-fi and technology. Potter offers magic. Since sci-fi and technology requires sci-fi and technology and magic requires ... well technology in order to look like magic... I think Star Wars has more to offer than Potter, POTC, Narnia etc... combined.

Personally... I think there is room in florida for both a galaxy far away and an academy for wizards.

Badlactose -

You win. Your pro-potter rant sold me. I think that a Harry Potter themed "land" will do better and last longer than a POTC land ever would.

UNLESS ...

1. ...The actors and actresses that the under 30 set have been watching all these years in the movies do not allow their likenesses used for the park. (Why Harrison Ford didn't allow himself in Indiana Jones is still a sore spot for me). Face it.... the land will be build after the movies ... not the books.

2. ...A "pirate land" at Disney is not merely an advertisment for the movies but rather a tribute to an era. In other words.... more GENERIC pirates and historical references than strictly POTC stuff. A historicly acurate 16th century Caribbean town doesn't automaticly say POTC 1, 2, or 3 to me.

3. ...They scrap a pirate section and expand Star Wars. I am going to hold my ground on this one. Star Wars offers sci-fi and technology. Potter offers magic. Since sci-fi and technology requires sci-fi and technology and magic requires ... well technology in order to look like magic... I think Star Wars has more to offer than Potter, POTC, Narnia etc... combined.

Personally... I think there is room in florida for both a galaxy far away and an academy for wizards.

minderbinder: Comparing J.K. Rowling and Lucas isn't as odd as you think. They are both the creators of highly popular franchises, whether they represent books (yes, there are Star Wars books!), movies, video games, action figures, coloring books ... you get my point?

The only difference is that one franchise has been around for 30 years. We simply do not know whether Harry Potter will stand the test of time. That said, I'll be at IOA in 2009, no matter what.

Rluke1971,

I see your point that a more generic pirate-theming would prevent a pirates-themed Adventureland from 'aging' too quickly. (although, on a personal level, pirates don't tickle my fancy as much as an all-encompassing Adventureland does.)

I disagree with your suggestion that the success of  'Potter Land' lies in the licensed use of the actors' faces. Since the heart of Potter's success is the books, I think fans would still be very happy with a Daniel Radcliffe or Emma Watson-free world. (lol. I think some of the Emma-hating fang girls would actually be thrilled at that thought)

I also agree with you that a Star Wars park would be enormously successful. (Though I still don't think it would be as successful with the younger set as Harry Potter land)

But to be honest, I don't think either Harry Potter or Star Wars belongs in DisneyWorld. They are both very richly imagined, beloved worlds that, well...have nothing to do with Disney. (I personally am still waiting for a Little Mermaid Ride.)

Sure, they're both creators of highly popular franchises.  But it's ridiculous to say one "beats" the other.  If anything, the Star Wars movies have done well but at this point hold few if any records while the Potter books are by far the best selling of all time, nothing else even comes close.  And JKR created the books pretty much single handedly while Lucas didn't even direct or write the screenplay for Empire, the most respected movie in the series.

It's silly to declare star wars some sort of winner just because it has been around longer.  It's over, and especially with the newer movies, it doesn't have the respect it once did.  Potter is still going strong, the series of books will end in a month but there are still three movies yet to be released.

Personally... I think the BEST idea disney could do and one that sounds way too cool... well.. I came a ccross an article on this site about a Villian Themed Land behind fantasyland... that would kick some major but!

I still think that Potter will fizzle and I agree with the other poster who said that IAO lets its rides fall into dispair... I can just imagine cardboard cutouts of the Potter universe julst like the marvel superheros... Plus have you ever seen the costumes used in IOA? Disney character costumes kick their butts all up and down.

If Disney is the the best, then Universal is only about 2/3 rds of the quality that Disney offers.

River Country will never re-open as a water park undaer any conditions... I read somewhere that you cant heat it (Part of bay lake or seven seas lagoon - cant remember which) and its way too small and poor access.

Sure, I think it's a good idea to add *a few* POTC-themed items to Adventureland. The new E-ticket and the restaurant sound good. (I also like Curmudgeon's idea of transforming the former Discovery Island into a POTC land.)

But re-theming all of Adventureland? Not at all. There are still plenty of *classic* adventure-themed Disney movies that could use tweaking. I'm still ticked that the only ride Aladdin got was a Dumbo-clone. When there's already another Dumbo clone in Tomorrowland, yet! If anything's crying out for a special-effects thrill ride, it's Aladdin! Maybe a "Revenge of the Mummy" style roller coaster ride through the Cave of Wonders.

In short, as with *all* of the Disney parks...they shouldn't get so caught up in the new that they forget what made them...the classics.

And I agree on not slamming J.K. herself. This is, after all, the woman who struck up a frienship with a terminally ill young fan and revealed the ending of the series to her just so she wouldn't have to die without knowing. Doesn't sound like an "abomination" to me.

Thanks for the great article! I would love a pirate themed area! There is sooo much they could do with it! Lets face is Walt himself was always willing to change things and plus them so people will keep coming pack. PLUS Walt always loved mixing the park with his big current thing and right now PIRATES is the big thing. NOW, if they were to do this I would time it with a release of maybe a pirates 4... :). Out of all my friends that I have mentioned it to half think it sounds terrible and half think it is a great idea. I would love it if they just added the black pearl where the tree house is... I havent done the tree house in YEARS!!! It is sadly a waste of great disney space.  I would miss the jungle cruise but hey turn it into pirate ships and sail the carribean or keep it as a world travel... visit singapore, Tortuga, and shipwreck city. It could be done. I like the idea of the pirate parrot show and if they really must keep Dumbo v.3 make the cars look like small dutchman ships ... ie the flying dutchman!

i think as long as you have the original disneyland experience, it wouldn't hurt to have diversity - how much mileage can disney get out of every park having the exact same (with some thematic differences) rides everywhere?  I would be all for a pirate themed adventureland - just have to time my next visit to florida so that it's not in construction when i go (my last trip was december '04 - when everest was still under construction)

techguy said:  The first shot has been taken at Frontierland in Anaheim.  Frontierland's cornerstone is gone.  The original design that Walt Disney himself drew out on a cocktail napkin is gone.  Replaced with a theme that was a century and a half before Tom and Huck.  The entire Frontierland is next.  "Who cares about Cowboys anymore?"

and if the <a href="http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hill/archive/2007/05/27/monday-mouse-watch-will-the-lone-ranger-ride-again-for-walt-disney-pictures-in-2010.aspx">lone ranger movie</a> Bruckheimer and the mouse are thinking about doing pans out?  Will a cowboy craze be next?  revive some of frontierlands jazz, eh?

askmike1 said:  If it makes you feel better, I like the new Tiki Room (at least better than the borefest that was the original). Still, I wouldn't mind at all if they destroyed it.

grrrr

askmike1 said:  In fact, the Disneyland version had to be turned into Tarzan's Treehouse

had to be turned into?  it's closed most of the time!  it isn't turning out attendance anymore than swiss family robinson was!?!?!? or am i crazy?

chernabog1982 said:  ie the flying dutchman!

*groan* .... nice but *groan* ;)

oh yeah, and jim - thanks for all the hard work you do - i love your writing style and (most of) your articles!  keep up the great work!

http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hill/archive/2007/05/27/monday-mouse-watch-will-the-lone-ranger-ride-again-for-walt-disney-pictures-in-2010.aspx

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