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Maybe I'm naive, but I had no idea that people actually made counterfeit fastpasses. Seems really stupid to me, but then again so do people who'd pay money for them.

Jim asked "So what do you folks think? Are you okay with the idea of Disney cast members scanning your FastPass just to make sure that it's authentic?"

AOK with me.  I think it's an excellent idea, and if they do it right won't add any additional wait time.

Confiscate fast passes, remove holder from park, void admission media.  Sorry, but we're all grown-ups here, and you should have known better.

Why have a cast member scan the ticket?  Why not put a gate like the front entrance you must put your fast pass into? These work, and the cm could monitor and assist guests like the entrance.  This would be expensive, but they could be tied to the fast pass printer to know what to expect and assist in numbers.  But whatever is done in the park, should be second to Disney looking to stop the counterfeiters by trolling eBay, discovering where they come from, and prosecute.  The sellers try to get around legalities by auctioning off a 'plain white envelope' which, if you win, you get the fast passes for free.  This is so transparent and bogus that there is no way it would hold up in court.  

I think that if Disney start scanning the Fast Passes, then people with bogus passes will be deterred and the problem will vanish.  Simple as that.  If I had fake fast pass, and saw that a cast member was scanning them on the gate I would simply give up on my criminal ways and get in line with the other honest folk.

I think the scanning will be far more effective as a visual deterrent than a way of actually 'catching' people that are trying to use them.  There's no way Disney would build turnstiles, it would be far cheaper to use a simple hand held device.

"...If I had fake fast pass, and saw that a cast member was scanning them on the gate I would simply give up on my criminal ways and get in line with the other honest folk..."

...while I think of a new way to scam the company.  Man!  There must be a way around all these corporate suits.  

C'mon.  Seriously?  Do any of us think for a moment that when Disney makes it more difficult it's anything other than an open invitation for these jerks to just try harder?

I agree that something needs to be done.  How about get rid of FastPass altogether?  It's another system that separates those in the know from the casual tourist.  It makes it harder to get on rides like Peter Pan's Flight (which is really sad).  

If I sound like Kevin Yee, I'm sorry, but I agree with him on this one.  Rather than dump a pile of money into some bogus system like "virtual queueing" why not spend the money on new attractions?

You know what really amazes me? That there is someone out there who is STUPID enough to pay FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS for passes they can get FOR FREE!!

Quite honestly, I think they should be tossed out if they're caught. Anyone who is too lazy to do a little simple research on their vacation destination and find out they can get these things gratis in the parks deserves what they get.

I mean really ... people act like Fastpass is so freakin' complex and hard to understand. There have only been like a million news stories about it, you can read about it on Disney's website (or any one of a million other fan sites out there) ... it's on every park map, signs all over the resorts, the monorail spiel ... You've gotta be a complete moron not to know about it.

Why Disney spends so much time protecting people from themselves, I have no clue. I wouldn't waste a penny on them and if I caught them I'd toss them out on their ear.

A-mazing, the lengths people will go to. Take their passes and boot 'em from the park. There's no excuse for such behavior.

I am fine with the scanning of fast passes, I don't think it would take that much longer than the Cm's checking the time on it.

I also just wanted to post that I just looked on ebay and there were fastpasses that look just like the ones jim posted in the article and I think those look really fake because I have only ever seen the ones that have the name of the ride at the top (which were also being sold online and were much more expensive than the other kind) I would think CM's could tell counterfiets just by looking at them but I may be wrong.

I actually contacted Disney about the abuses I witnessed at WDW and on Ebay.  I also couldn't believe that people would actually pay that kind of money for something that they may or may not be able to use.  I kept wondering why the Fastpass system seemed to be failing.  I know more people go to the parks, I know that more understand the Fastpass, but I couldn't understand why the passes on the more popular rides are gone by noon.  The problem lies with the people who get a large numober of passes at one time and then don't use them (maybe put them on Ebay?)

missdisney121 said:

"I also just wanted to post that I just looked on ebay and there were fastpasses that look just like the ones jim posted in the article and I think those look really fake because I have only ever seen the ones that have the name of the ride at the top (which were also being sold online and were much more expensive than the other kind) I would think CM's could tell counterfiets just by looking at them but I may be wrong."

That's because the passes in Jim's picture aren't actually Fastpasses. They're ride re-entry passes. Disney gives them out to guests when a ride goes down and they're waiting in line or for baby swap ... sometimes in guest service instances, too.

"That's because the passes in Jim's picture aren't actually Fastpasses. They're ride re-entry passes. Disney gives them out to guests when a ride goes down and they're waiting in line or for baby swap ... sometimes in guest service instances, too."

Quite right, they also hand them out if you've given your time to help them out. For instance when I was in WDW in August, Imagineers wanted some guests to come and test the new Mansion Stretchroom sound system. And to say thankyou (like they needed to!), they gave out the Attractions Re-entry passes. Quite wonderfully, I used mine on Peter Pan, and as I walked off was handed a Dream Fastpass!! What a day!

I disagree with Original19.....why get rid of Fast Pass completely?  There is nothing inherently wrong with the system.  If there are people who don't know about it, shame on them.  The system is well promoted....and very conspicuous once you get near a ride.  Even if you didn't see any of the very large "Fast Pass Disribution" or "Fast Pass Return" signs and completely missed the many references to Fast Pass on all park maps, wouldn't you at least start asking questions the first time you had been standing in a line for an hour while these other people got to just walk right up and enter?  There is nothing wrong with a system that gives an advantage to those who are informed, when the info is out there for all to see.

The system that I think would be inherently wrong is the one JH has written up in the past which would allow different levels of Fast Pass depending on the resort where a guest is staying.  That would set up a haves vs. have-nots situation.

As an aside...I'm sure there are many guests who know about Fast Pass and still choose the stand-by line.  My family does it every once in a while.  Sometimes it is a nice rest from all the running around.  Sometimes, it is pretty cool to look for hidden Mickeys or to see all of the "pre-show" that the Imagineers have set up for us.  The queueing area is supposed to be part of the attraction and tell part of the story.

I COMPLETELY agree that Disney should get rid of the FASTpass system. The only reason they created it in the first place was to get people out of line and into stores to buy stuff.

I think that Disney is starting to understand that FASTpass isn't the way to go either (at least at DL). A number of attractions have lost their FASTpass and all of the new attractions don't have it (Nemo subs being the BIG one and I doubt if Midway Mania will have them either).

Shouldn't take any longer to scan a fastpass than it did to take a "C" ticket.

There's scams everywhere.  Go to DISboards and you'll see a very well-organized scheme regarding the PhotoPass system, the refillable mug system, even "swapping" appliances to use in hotel rooms (that aren't meant to have them).  You know, like microwaves, small refrigerators, etc.  

There's always going to be dishonest people looking to screw the Mouse they profess to love so much.

jedited said:

"I COMPLETELY agree that Disney should get rid of the FASTpass system. The only reason they created it in the first place was to get people out of line and into stores to buy stuff.

I think that Disney is starting to understand that FASTpass isn't the way to go either (at least at DL). A number of attractions have lost their FASTpass and all of the new attractions don't have it (Nemo subs being the BIG one and I doubt if Midway Mania will have them either)."

Actually, if you really think about it, it kind of makes sense to get rid of it more than it does to spend money "fixing" it. They've pretty much acknowledged that the expected bump in food and merch sales never materialized, so what's the real benefit to them anyway?

fabshelly said:

"There's scams everywhere.  Go to DISboards and you'll see a very well-organized scheme regarding the PhotoPass system, the refillable mug system, even "swapping" appliances to use in hotel rooms (that aren't meant to have them).  You know, like microwaves, small refrigerators, etc."

That's why anyone with a shred of decency should avoid the DISboards like the plague. I can't believe Pete allows that stuff to be openly discussed on his site.

I had a different idea.  I know Disney is playing with the Nintendo DS, but this is still different.

Instead of a Fast Pass, how about something like this.

You walk up to a kiosk like the fast pass kiosk now.

You enter your park ticket and get a list (Pretty ride logo/icon) for each fast pass attraction. Mabey even divided by land.

You then get to choose a set number of your must ride attractions. lets say 5 for now.

So you pick the 5 rides, the order you would like to ride them, mabey what time & where you plan to eat lunch and dinner.

You then get an itenerary showing what time to be in each place (With a 1 hour window)

You can ride ANYTHING at any time, but thats subject to the stand-by line. But you don't have to keep running across the park to get fast passes all the time.

You could even have these kiosks in your Disney Property Hotels so guests can have everything planed out ahead of time.

What do you think?

turlaach said:

"That's because the passes in Jim's picture aren't actually Fastpasses. They're ride re-entry passes. Disney gives them out to guests when a ride goes down and they're waiting in line or for baby swap ... sometimes in guest service instances, too."

First off the passes in Jim's picture are not dispensed by a fast pass machine at the park, they are given out by customer service, under certain circumstances that I am aware of:

1) Customer Service Issues (to right a wrong)

2) A ride breaks down and you are comped with these Re-Entry passes.

3) You get spotted by the Disney prize patrol and are given these passes.

4) VIPs, Celebrities, or Corporate Promo's for companies affiliated with WDW.

The last way is how I came across the passes I was given. I also spotted the ad Jim was referring to on eBay, I captured the picture and opened it with adobe PS, enlarged it by 150% and all the passes that Jim has pictured are perforated and look genuine, as for why people would pay for them?? But I do know for a fact you cannot get these types of passes from the machine there.  After using the ones I was given, I can understand why someone would buy them,... who wants to stand hours in a line???

At least buying these passes is more tangible then buying a pet rock... but then again what do I know?      

"Due to the way that they're created, real FastPasses have a perforated edge along their top & bottom. Whereas faux FastPasses (Which are typically cut out with scissors and/or trimmed on a paper cutting machine) typically have straight, flat edges on all four sides."

Sweet. Now the cons will create even more realistic tickets with perforated edges thanks to the article.

UPDATE!!!

I also clicked on "Ask Seller a Question" when I was viewing the ad on ebay, and sent the seller a link to Jim's Article and told him that his passes could be possible fakes, he replied to my email addy with a real closeup of one of the passes, front and back, now I'm no expert but it looks as real as the ones that I have left over from my trip. he also said the following:

"Please thank Jim for featuring my picture, I usually only get 100 hits a day on my ad, I couldn't figure out why today the counter was over 500 hits?  Now that I have read his article I guess I should thank him for the FREE advertising. His article is helping me because these are the real deal. Please look closely at the picture I have sent you, does this pass look fake to you? I only wish I could duplicate them, it would be like a having a license to print money. I acquired these passes as legally as you can from the mouse himself. Jim needs to educate himself a little better on the difference of park issued fast passes and complimentary passes. Just look and see how many fast pass ads there is her on eBay & also look and see how many non licensed sellers there is of WDW theme park ticket, as well as AAA Diamond parking passes. People even sell complimentary park admission tickets, even though they state not for sale in the fine print.  When I was in Hawaii a few months ago I was amazed to see people buying bottled sand at a gift shop. haha Who would have thought.... I had a few tons of it in front of my resort, I think I will bring a shovel next time.

Thank you for your inquiry and don't forget to thank Jim,

Cheers,

AQ"

I guess I do see his point, if there is a market for something, there will also be people trying to capitalize on it. JMHO

jedited said:

"I COMPLETELY agree that Disney should get rid of the FASTpass system. The only reason they created it in the first place was to get people out of line and into stores to buy stuff."

The only reason they created it in the first place was to get people out of line and into stores to buy stuff.-- I agree.

Therefore "I COMPLETELY agree that Disney should get rid of the FASTpass system. "-- I disagree!!!  I would so much rather be in a store or on a bench or another attraction or the restroom or in a restaurant than in line!  I suppose they make more money from me, but I am lots happier!  If someone would rather wait in line, there is plenty of opportunity to do that at some of the non-FP attractions!

Re the Qs posed by Jim:

I think if you are using fake stuff you should be kicked out of the park.

However, it is better to deter than to get into these confrontations.  Scanning seems like a good plan.

As for why people pay for FPs which are available free in the parks, you are limited to a certain number in the parks.  Not X number during the day, but because you're blocked to get another until a certain time, there is a limit to how many you can accumulate.  We all know how it works.  I am guessing that you can buy more than you would be able to get.

I never understood the hatred for FastPasses in the Disney community. As long as they don't go the Universal/Six Flags route, where a caste system of upper and lower class guests are created, the FastPass is an amazing tool. As long as it remains free and available to all guests then it allows for a day at Disney unparralleled to any other entertainment experience. If they got rid of them all together I don't know what I would do being able to ride only one or two rides a trip.

FastPass was originally created to fix the problem of people waiting in line too long and not spending time elsewhere in the park (namely stores).  

Eisner tried to fix this problem by putting in some cheap off-the-shelf rides like the Magic Carpets.  The main idea behind a move like this is obvious: if there are more rides and attractions the lines everywhere else should drop or at least equalize to a lower wait time.

While I believe this is the right idea I don't think rides should be put in just to fill a void.  I think quality rides and attractions should be developed; however, this costs money.  A lot of money.  This is where the lame idea of "virtual queueing" was born... and on paper it kinda makes sense.  

Doesn't it bother anyone else that Disney keeps removing attractions and not replacing them?  Just look at Tomorrowland - what a ghost town.  And what a sorry excuse for a replacement the 100 acre wood play area turned out to be.  20,000 Leagues (when it was working... don't even get me started on that one) used to really move a lot people.  There's more but I know I don't need to name them all.  

I stand by my opinion: Disney needs to build quality rides and attractions and stop wasting money on crap like FastPass, Pal Mickey and Magic Connections.  

people are actually stupid enough to pay 500 dollars for fastpasses?  WOW

Disney should just get rid of fastpass all together and get back to doing elaborate queues that keep people entertained.  Offer the passes only to people staying in their hotels and have them show hotel key upon use.

I don't see any reason for Disney to get rid of Fastpass. I happen to think the system is a great tool for use at the parks. Yeah, it sucks to miss out on queus sometimes, but I'll trade that for being able to hit the entire park. And, I'm sorry, but if there's anyone who doesn't know what fastpass is, what with the way Disney at nauseam pushes then, then I have no pity for them.

A) It is just shy of impossible to ride everything at Disneyland in one day.

B) When you use Fastpass, it slows down the regular line thereby forcing those poor 'suckers' to ride even fewer things during their day at DL. How nice/fair.

C) $66, while a nice chunk of change, is not all that much when you look at value. I count about 8 'E' ticket rides, which turns out to be about $8.25/ride. If you pick your top 8 rides and only go on them during your visit... I'd gladly pay $8.25 to ride my favorites. Heck, if you manage to ride 14 rides, your only forking over less than $5/ride! (There are 53 attractions by my quick count) How anyone complains about not getting to ride enough is beyond me.

D) I would assume that most of the 'idiots' who know nothing of Fastpass are foreigners or first-timers. Let's punish them for their ignorance.

I would gladly vote to remove Fastpass.

And while they're at it can they ban people from saving spaces for parades and shows until 30 minutes before showtime... I hate those people with a passion!!!

In response to Jim's question from the article... I too, vote for kicking the folks out who have the fakes. Or at least take them to security and figure out whether or not they made them or bought them and then punish accordingly.

Or maybe give everybody one chance. If you get caught, then you go to security and give them your name and information, give up all passes, and then released. If you get caught a second time you are immediately kicked from the park. If you get caught a third time you are banned from the park.

A) It is just shy of impossible to ride everything at Disneyland in one day.

-You're right in theory, and I should have chosen better word use. There are several rides in MK for example that I don't go on (regularly at least), and I know I'm not the only person who does this. Therefore, it is possible to hit everything I want to in one day, which still is a majority of the rides.

B) When you use Fastpass, it slows down the regular line thereby forcing those poor 'suckers' to ride even fewer things during their day at DL. How nice/fair.

-First off, I never called anyone "suckers". Second, while I'm sure that FP does make standbye lines longer, I don't think it's enough of a detriment to cause removal of the system.

C) $66, while a nice chunk of change, is not all that much when you look at value. I count about 8 'E' ticket rides, which turns out to be about $8.25/ride. If you pick your top 8 rides and only go on them during your visit... I'd gladly pay $8.25 to ride my favorites. Heck, if you manage to ride 14 rides, your only forking over less than $5/ride! (There are 53 attractions by my quick count) How anyone complains about not getting to ride enough is beyond me.

-I understand your POV, but I think you're missing something. It's not only a question of "riding enough", it's a question of going n the rides you want. I'm only able to get to WDW at most once a year, and I want to ride the big attractions while I'm there.

D) I would assume that most of the 'idiots' who know nothing of Fastpass are foreigners or first-timers. Let's punish them for their ignorance.

-I also never called anyone idiots. I don't think first time visiting is an excuse, especially for those staying on property. The Fastpass system is heavily plugged and explained on the in-room Disney channel, as well as in all park maps, and outside of every FP attraction. As for foreign visitors, I wouldn't know as I really have no experience in that area, however I would assume it's pushed and explained the same way.

WDWTITAN24 - I was by no means responding to your post in particular. I can see how it may have looked like that since you are pro-FP and my post followed yours. Please understand I was not trying to put any words in your mouth nor to attack your view.

Sorry for any confusion.

Captain Hook got it right: First time you are caught with FAKE fast passes, security detains you for questioning as to their source & let's you go.  Next time, eviction from the park; third time bar for a year, if that's feasible.  Fourth time?  Well it's probably hard to sue someone for faking something that is free, but I'm sure lawyers could make a case against someone who is wilfully interfering with the system Disney's has put in place to give its guests experiences they have paid for.

I would think that the machine issuing a FastPass could code it electronically for time AND DATE, and that the turnstile receiving that card could read the information, so that invalid passes would be rejected and no pass could be used after the park closes on the date of issue.

I hadn't heard about the "merchandising angle."

I applaud the idea of making the queues continually more interesting in and of themselves with quality displays and first-class video clips (which last for more than 2 minutes so you are not bored to death with repetitions).  Certainly compared with the cost of a ride or show mechanism and building, some good video -- perhaps a 20-minute segment, assuming that is the longest time you could possibly spend in one queue area -- wouldn't be a budget breaker.

Example:  "Expedition Everest" might have 12 different explorerers and indigenous people talking cleverly about the search for the Yeti.  Hire really expert comedy writers and cast excellent actors and then create first-class funny/scary "interviews" and adventure tales WORTH STANDING IN LINE to watch!!!  Not just one clip repeated over and over and over ad nauseum.

Merchandising or no, guests who remember Disney as "standing bored in lines" are not going to rush back soon.

Uh...  Here's the thing about all this.  I know they don't check closely, but, every Fastpass HAS a date on the bottom of it.  Date, year and time.

I've checked, because I've thought of reusing them, and when I saw they had dates, I figured that wouldn't work.

Maybe the newest ones don't, but as of October of last year?  All the Disneyland Resort Fastpasses are timestamped.

So, I don't know, if they could have a barcode on there or something that included that information, maybe it'd be more useful.  But the date is on there.

I know some people said "if it had the date," so, I just thought I'd chime in there.  They do have the date.

This isn't exactly a major crime wave, folks, however dumb it is and however gullible the purchasers may be. As my dear dad always said, "Locks are for honest people." and people will try to break a system every which way they can.

The issue, of course, is not the system or its locks. THe issue is how much value there is in what's inside. If people will really pay $500 to get on a ride quicker, then the SMART thing for Disney to do is to charge, say, $5 or $10 more per passport for a "HOV-Lane" style access to a permanent "fast-pass" encoding on your regular Disney passport. Its a market-based system and you get what you pay for.

Now you might say this creates a '2nd Class Citizen' status for those who cannot pay or choose not to, and that this may cause resentment against the Disney company thereby. Why? After all, some people pay for Motel 6, some for the bargain Disney resorts, and some for a suite at the Grand Floridian. There isn't any evidence of huge class-warfare-style resentment against Disney for charging more for fancier places or, for that matter, for discounting (slightly) the passport prices for WDW Resort guests. And if so...well, heck. Who DOESN'T resent the Mouse these days for SOME reason or another.

But the bottomline is that if FastPass became a pay-Disney-for-special-access system that cost a visitor $10 a day more or so....NOBODY would pay Ebay-crooks $500 for fake fastpasses and the incentive to create them would vaporize overnight.

Meanwhile, I just wonder about how much legal right Disney has to search a guest or confiscate property they bought and own. They may have recourse against the counterfeiters if they can find and sue them, but that pass, however bogus, is the property of its holder. Invalidate it? Sure. Kick 'em out? If you like. But frisk guests or threaten them? I smell lawsuits. Lots of them.

Who is your best director?