I'm actually in favor of only having Lincoln speak. The booing does take away from the show, and I think having the current President speak takes away from the historical nature of the show. As far as other ways to plus the attraction, I really don't want any. I think the show is good the way it is, minus the current President's speech.

I wouldn't mind losing the film. It's a fine film, people worked hard on it, I just get "movied out" at WDW.

From what I understand, it's easier now than it's ever been to reprogram the AA figures. How about a show where some of the presidents explain why the electoral college came into being, instead of utilizing a popular vote for president. How about a show that discusses different presidential programs throughout history - the "New Deal" or creating the National Parks system. Nothing major - right around five to ten minutes each and rotate with the classic "rollcall and Lincoln" show. If all the presidents throughout history were really in one room, wouldn't they interact, argue, debate. Bring in an AA figure of Nancy Grace and let her interview all of them - she'll cut them off if they get boring.

Does the attraction really need to squeak in 3 shows an hour if attendence has been so lite over the years.  The new banner could read "Visit the Hall of Presidents With Three Chances to Nap Every Hour"......

Joking aside...I dig the HOP.  Not that its a must see each and every time though....

http://www.raymation.net

Sounds like what it needs is some randomized variety... Keep some standard introduction and the climactic Gettysburg Address, but bix it up with a set of "greatest speeches" of safely historical presidents that play in different, mixed and matched arrangements each show. Make it so that you'd have to attend at least a good dozen times to catch all of them.

And I dunno'... Do they jazz that show up any? What about videos and effects related to each president, which play while he's giving his speech? What about all that bursting bomb patriotic stuff?

I might be the only one to say it ... but considering that we'll have a historic first in that a black or woman might win the presidency -- it's a shame that won't get the full and proper treatment it deserves ...

and Lincoln's Gettysburg Address isn't the best Disney can do with this attraction ... the compilation of highlights from several of Lincoln's speeches as used for years at Disneyland is far more stirring ...

I also like Cory's idea ... and imagine oratory from Roosevelt, Kennedy, Reagan and possibly the gifted speaker Barack Obama could make the show far more attractive for repeat visitors.

Maybe it's time to for the Imagineers to remind us all: "Yes, We Can."

I think that the entire attraction should be euthanized and replaced with something a little more interesting like 'The American Adventure' at Epcot.  

Then they could take all the old AAs over to Epcot, stick 'em on 'The Land' boat ride and boost the attendance numbers for this yawn fest.

Why can't they finally bite the bullet and transform this into a shooting gallery?

Though, seriously, if Disney is going to do anything with the Hall of Presidents they should return it to its original "One Nation Under God" presentation.  The Disneyland revamp of Lincoln was a mess, with a weak voice job (no Royal Dano there) and a scuffy-looking nerfherder of an animatronic...there's no sense in cloning that thing.

Of course, it would be a real swell thing if Disney could get some gumption and actually create a show that **guests actually want to see** in this venue.   I've heard great things about the Ghosts of the Library show at the Lincoln Library.  Why can't WDW have a show that is at least AS MAGICAL as some museum in Illinois?

MJ

when in cyberspace visit http://plausible-impossible.com

Well, if there was ever a time to silence the newest President, it's now. No matter which three of these losers ends up in the White House, it'll end up being another 4 years of pandering to special interests on both sides of the aisle while the average American takes it in the rear.

But I digress ...

First off, if you're such a loser that you boo an Audio-Animatronic version of our country's chief executive, you should be tossed out of the park. I dislike Clinton and Bush as much as anyone else, but I would never be so disrespectful as to boo them. Not even so much out of respect for the office (which both of them disrespected more times than I ever could), but out of respect for my fellow guests. It's just plain rude and if I EVER was in a show of HoP where someone did that, he'd have a big problem on his hands.

Secondly, why in the world would WDW management want to run 3 instead of 2 shows?? I mean I love HoP as much as the next guy, but come on ... the theater is never more than 1/2 full.

Which brings me to my third and final point. Maybe more people would like this show if it wasn't a 22 1/2 minute "White Guilt Festival." The entire show basically boils America's great history down to the fact that we once had slaves. There's no mention of any of the amazing things this country has accomplished. Frankly, it's really annoying. That's one of the main reasons I never go to see the show anymore. It would be like being Italian, going to the Italy pavilion at Epcot, and having to sit through a 22 1/2 minute show on Benito Mussolini's reign. Or a German watching "The Adolf Hitler Review" in the Germany pavilion. Does anyone really think Germans or Italians would go see shows like that?? I don't.

Ever since Eisner listened to Eric Foner and changed the show into a long, boring apologist festival, I've lost interest. This attraction used to celebrate America's accomplishments, the great things so many in this country have done over the years and, while I think slavery should definitely be mentioned, there's no excuse for it being the entire focus of the show. That's one small portion of America's history that happens to be shameful. Why are we the only country in the world that's expected to self-flagellate on our vacations???

Nostalgia doesn't cut it with HOP.  Time to gut it and put in a new attraction.  The Magic Kingdom shouldn't be a museum.

Pickstar....could not agree more!

I agree with Pickstar's last three paragraphs.

Pickstar, you make some valid points.  The show should definitely be about the amazing accomplishments we have made as Americans. I think that a few different presidents should speak to tell us what happened while they were President, with a filmd running behind them to dramatize it.  People should leave the theatre feeeling proud to be an American, or with a better understanding of what it is to be an American.  I like the IDEA of the show, but it really is dull.  And I have not enjoyed any of the latest Presidents speeches. If either Hillary or Obama win, they should get a VERY short speech just to acknowledge that we've finally elected either a woman or African-American to office. At least it is a relevant piece of history.

First off, thanks for the words of agreement. Normally, I feel like I'm out on an island. It's nice to hear I'm not always nuts. ;)

Destino, despite what I said I actually agree with you that if Clinton or Obama gets elected it would be fine for them to just have a short speech that says something like, "I'm so proud to be the first woman/African-American President ... etc."

The truth is, on a personal level, I'm just so down on our "leaders" these days that in reality I really don't want to hear a word from them.

I love the Hall of Presidents. However, I have never been to WDW! I have seen the show on video. I like the idea of cutting the current president speeches. Especially if Hillary Clinton were to win the next election. Should they remove it, personally I hope they don't. I am a Civil War amateur historian and I find Lincoln fascinating however as others have stated, Disneyland and WDW aren't museums. As such, I think that most young kids would be happier to see something new in that spot. As far as the Lincoln robot, they could just put that over in the Walt Disney story. Even if they just put in inside a store front window and let it run through it's routine continually so those who want to see Lincoln can do so. Or maybe put Lincoln in the American Story show at WDW. That could be interesting especially since they currently have one of the great mans real stove pipe hats on display there, on loan from the home of Lincoln's son Robert.

I'm not a regulat at WDW (not as regular as I'd like to be anyway!) but when I went last year we checked this show out twice, and both times it was less than half-full; why have three shows an hour if that's what two shows gets? Surely it's best to improve it and fill up those two shows better?

Unless the logic is people don't like waiting around for teh next show to start, and more shows=less waiting...

Picstar and Destino, both of your comments are great!

I think shortening may help it be a little less boring. I like the ideas about changing to make it an advertisement for America, and some of the great things that this country has accomplished in it's short history. We should be proud of our country, and not be afraid to show it off to the rest of the world.

Maybe the presidents could engage in a dialogue with each other that was more interactive-like, transferring from one to the next talking about their accomplishments and the kind of things they had to overcome while in office.

Pickstar- I think Eisner was trying to cash in on the Ken Burns Civil War craze....

again...following, not leading

buttermaker said:

"Pickstar- I think Eisner was trying to cash in on the Ken Burns Civil War craze....

again...following, not leading"

I'd like to believe that's the case, but the truth is, if you look across the resort, HoP was not the only attraction to undergo changes of this nature during Eisner's tenure. I think he agreed with Foner's interpretation of American history (i.e. America, BAD!) and liked the changes he proposed.

On a different note, I've seen like 3 folks float really solid ideas for giving HoP a makeover. I love the suggestion from GrumpyFan about having the different Presidents engage each other in dialogue. It would be really awesome to have like one representative from each era in American history. They could chat with each other about the challenges they faced and what their era's legacy was to American history.

Although I don't think misterjohnson's suggestion of a shooting gallery is all that bad, either. ;)

Take "corytheraven" and "picstar" 's ideas and mesh them together and I think you have a winner. I cannot beleive that you guys came up with something compelling to talk about with regard to this article ;) Good job!

I'm a long time fan of the Hall of Presidents that has boycotted the attraction for the last 7 years because I refuse to hear THAT MAN speak at my favorite place in world.  I was looking forward to hearing the new chief executive speak in 2009 (and any of the 3 possibilities are preferable to what we have now), but I'll settle for just being able to go into the place.

"Why are we the only country in the world that's expected to self-flagellate on our vacations???"

Nah... Speaking as a Canadian, that's more of our thing really. Americans tend to be more "rah rah rah, hooray for the home team, my country right or wrong", which might explain the ambivalence towards an emphasis on slavery in the presentation. This is especially true in a Disney park, where the representation of American history has been routinely devoid of those shaping historical conflicts. Which stands to reason, of course, as they are foundational to the problems of today, and today is what you're leaving when you pass under those arches. However, there is a way to negotiate that.

Given that the self-assessment of American history tends to be more triumphalist, that's what you would want to appeal to in making a presentation. Have these randomized speeches (I'd probably stop at Kennedy though) that are all about the American spirit of triumph, overcoming adversity, etc. This would be especially resonant in the present day when it seems like America is getting psychologically swamped in both its external and internal problems. Instead of banging the drum of slavery particularly, have speeches about overcoming division. Have some Depression Era speeches about overcoming economic problems... Recall presidential speeches that have some inspirational meaning and relevance for the troubles that Americans are facing today, slipping in a covert message of reassurance under the veil of Disney historical nostalgia.

And have some neat SFX with it.

Actually, I think CoryTheRaven has a pretty good idea. I love the notion of having 4 or 5 Presidents that have given truly legendary speeches recite them in some sort of overarching theme. Maybe pull it together with some kind of movie playing behind them.

I'm thinking of stuff like Lincoln's Gettysburgh Address, FDR's " ... a day that will live in infamy", Kennedy's Ich Bien Ein Berliner, Reagan's "Mr. Gorbachev ... tear down this wall!" ... now THAT would be a truly moving and inspirational attraction.

I posted this for fun on another message board topic...if they wanted to both conserve space and spruce up this old chestnut, they could combine two different attractions...

The Enchanted Presidential Room: Executive Serenade

All Presidents:

In the Presi-presi-presi-presi-dential room,

In the Presi-presi-presi-presi-dential room,

You can hear the leaders of the free world croon,

In the Presi-presi-presi-presi-dential room!

Lincoln:

Welcome, my friends, to our show at Sixteen-

Hundred Pennsylvania Avenue.

Just sit back and relax as we set the scene

For our singing, dancing revue!

All:

ALL TOGETHER!

In the Presi-presi-presi-presi-dential room,

In the Presi-presi-presi-presi-dential room,

You can hear the leaders of the free world croon,

In the Presi-presi-presi-presi-dential room!

William Howard Taft (spoken):

Ah, the memories! I remember when I filled this office.

Teddy Roosevelt:

You not only filled it, Bill...you overflowed it!

Taft:

Go ahead and laugh at me! At least I left more of a legacy than a smile and a stuffed animal!

Teddy:

You most certainly did, Bill. In fact I'd say you were two of the finest presidents this country ever had!

Lincoln:

Gentlemen, can we get on with the show, please? There are lots of other presidents to introduce. For instance... (sings)

Now, Tricky Dick said he was not a crook,

But that claim didn't hold up to a second look.

He was caught in a fix, there was no escape,

Tangled up in a mess of recording tape!

...And so on.

As hard as it might be to believe now, right after 9/11, visitors to The Hall of Presidents were cheering Bush. The fact is that any real person, from entertainment or politics, has the potential to polarize people and is a risk in a theme park attraction that is planned to last for more than a few years. Lest we forget that, back when the Disney-MGM Studios opened, there were videos of stars that hosted attraction segments -- remember when Pee Wee Herman landed in the arms of Mel Gibson?

When The Hall of Presidents first opened, Richard Nixon was in office. Nixon had been photographed at Disneyland and even did his "I am not a crook" speech at the Contemporary. But he never spoke at The Hall of Presidents. Maybe the powers that be at the time realized how guests might have reacted -- he wasn't exactly a crowd favorite in the early 70's.

On a more cheerful note, how about adding some Pixar characters or Hannah Montana?

I enjoy the Hall of Presidents, and I enjoy hearing the current President speak (in the case of Bush43, that applies only to his AA doppleganger, not to the real thing).  I also would prefer a mix of Lincoln's speeches, rather than the Gettysburg Address.  While it's a fine Address, it's WAY WAY overdone.

I, too, agree with the last three paragraphs of Pickstar's post.  I wish they would bring back the original film that was shown in HoP prior to Foner's revisionist mess.  The original film left the viewer feeling like they do at the end of The American Adventure.

Instead of focusing on one President, why not one line of a famous speech from certain president's?  I'm sure they have the technology to do this as well as feature  three or four different speaking groups that are randomly chosen - similar to the different drop sequences on Tower of Terror.  This way, the audience would be able to experience different presidents on various visits and help avoid the "boredom" factor.

I don't want to see HoP replaced because I think it's important to keep historical attractions.  WDW doesn't need to replace more attractions with something that themed around Disney's latest hot property.

I love the idea of the presidents talking to each other, comparing ideals based on the country at that time.  Done RIGHT it could be inspiring and provocative. Love the idea of intermingling famous speeches.  So many good ideas for helping out this attraction!

"Destino said:

I love the idea of the presidents talking to each other, comparing ideals based on the country at that time.  Done RIGHT it could be inspiring and provocative. Love the idea of intermingling famous speeches."

While these are good ideas, I do not think them possible.  I do not believe that every animatronic, save Lincoln and GW Bush, has the ability to speak.  Reagan and GHW Bush spoke (with impersonations) and Clinto was the first to record his own speech, but all the rest don't have the mechanicals to do so.  Why build it if it will not be used?  So the only presidential gabfest would be Lincoln and the Final Four (sorry, last four - I've got March Madness already!)

BTW, in all the times I've visited HOP, I've never heard any booing.  Either I tuned it out as I do a lot of ignorance, or this is not as big a problem as it is being made out.  Since WDW opened in 1971, they have only added 6 new animatronics, with the last four doing a speech.  I would be a lot less work and money to simply have any new AA simply nod to their called name.  I'd believe that is more of an issue than whatever the popularity of the current president is.  Lincoln himself was very unpopular in his day.

My prediction: Disney will decide to honor the new president with a simple non-talking AA.  If HR Clinton or BH Obama Jr. are elected, there will be screams of sexism or racism because they did not get a chance to record a speech.

That was just about the funniest theme park article I have ever read. I was laughing hysterically to the final punctuation mark.

I trust Disney imagineers could re-invent this attraction -- perhaps paying tribute to the office of the presidency and its resialance over two centuries. I only hope they maintain the building's elevation. The exterior photo presented here bares the same pleasing familiarity as attractions like the Haunted mansion or the jungle cruise. While I would welcome a re-vamp, I hope the team at WDI does not go all Michael Harris -- the creative genius who changed the name of "Ye Olde Apple Days" into "Apples! Apples! Apples!"

Whatever they want to do with it will be fine - I actually do my best sleeping in the Carosel of Progress. Not that I don't like CoP, the movement puts me to sleep. Now, if they could get HoP to move around like CoP, they would have to carry people out of there!

"I'm thinking of stuff like Lincoln's Gettysburgh Address, FDR's " ... a day that will live in infamy", Kennedy's Ich Bien Ein Berliner, Reagan's "Mr. Gorbachev ... tear down this wall!" ... now THAT would be a truly moving and inspirational attraction."

If for some reason (by popular acclaim of JHM readers?) I was put in charge of this makeover, I think I would probably go primarily for excerpts from various Inaugural Addresses: Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Grant, Roosevelt, FDR, Eisenhower, Kennedy... I'd probably shy away from anyone from the last 40 years, since it's still recent enough to be somewhat controversial. Except, that is, unless Clinton or Obama were voted in, simply because that IS historic, whether or not one cares for it. But even then, just keep it to the Inaugural Address, since that's a piece of historic documentation and that's usually where presidents seem to say their best stuff anyways. Some speeches are too contextual - especially those directly referencing now-collapsed governments, or declarations of war - to be of any real use in this format.  

(Those speeches can be found at http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/inaugurals.php)

Just so you know Jim, President Bush doesn't have the lowest ratings in Presidential history.  That actually falls to President Harry S. Truman who in the late 1940's had an even lower rating than the current president.

That the Imagineers would have two AA birds jeer at one of their own patriotic attractions reflects an apalling and unfortunate, if honest, admission of lack of imagination, confidence and pride of achievement.

Can it be possible that there is nothing to be said about the USA -- positive and/or negative, emotional, stirring, humbling, embarassing, inspiring, enobling, encouraging -- that could hold the attention of an audience for 22 minutes?

Is the American Dream grown so dead, and the citizenry so dumbed-down, that Imagineeing cannot spark this short a show out of the awesome pageant of our past?

Is there nothing to be said of those who have made the sacrifices to protect our sovereignty, and to those who now must take up responsibility for our future?

I think the failure is, as the Imagineers admit in giving themselves the bird, a failure of creative thinking, writing, animatronics, film and showmanship.

I nominate Barak Obama to craft a heroic narration to weave together the new film narration, and the excerpted words of wisdom from our most eloquent presidents.

"bravoman said:

That the Imagineers would have two AA birds jeer at one of their own patriotic attractions reflects an apalling and unfortunate, if honest, admission of lack of imagination, confidence and pride of achievement."

I would humbly disagree with the esteemed bravoman (just practicing my senatespeak!) and give the Imagineers a little more credit.  If the bird saying  "Boy, I'm tired! I think I'll head over to the Hall of Presidents and take a nap." was Jose or Fritz or even Zasu, then the above would apply.  Coming from Iago, whose crass personality is prominently displayed during the Tiki show, it is not inappropriate.  

We all love the show, and usually go once every trip.  My kids (21-15) have come to really appreciate it.  I think you have to go several times to "get it".  That said, making it shorter and having Lincoln as the only speaker would be fine.  I have never seen anyone become disrespectful during the show, but I can imagine it happening.  Using Lincoln only, but continuing to update the actual presidents with each new elected official seems appropriate.  It keeps the show planted in the past, and fits the Liberty Square theme.  They should never get rid of the show.  It's one of the things that makes WDW so very unique.  Nobody else in the world would ever take such a chance on a show that appeals to such a select audience.  Just keep refreshing it.

I've been there 5 times in the last 5 years and didn't see The Hall once. Bad me.

Part of the problem with this show is that it relies on a WOW effect that just isn't that wow-inducing.   By today's standards, straight-up animatronics are too common, too easy.  There's not much about the "43 presidents on one stage" that Universal or Rainforest Cafe or just a plain old museum couldn't accomplish.

You have to ask yourself what the PURPOSE of this show is in today's MK.  Forget the operational BS about capacity blah-blah.  What is thsi attraction meant to DO for guests?  Is it accomplishing this?

I really don't get this show.  In the sixties, a bunch of manly robots on stage would have a certain "spectacle" quality to it.  But that bit of showmanship--even then--isn't moving too many guests to buy flags.  The original cobbled Lincoln speech did (does?) have a certain sense of national importance.  But how many sweaty guests are really in the mood to buy that sort of message in between Splash Mountain and a turkey leg?

And maybe that last sentence is the point.  The Magic Kingdom has changed.  The audience is visiting for different reasons than they did in 1971.  Can Disney pull off a heart-pounding patriotic show?  Maybe if they put their soulds into it.  Will HOP ever be that with its current infrastructure.   NO WAY!

MJ

When in Cyberspace visit http://www.plausible-impossible.com

Maybe disney could donate the presidents to the Smithsonian in Washington DC.

That would be good PR. Come see Disney's Hall of Presidents.

misterjohnson said:

"Can Disney pull off a heart-pounding patriotic show?"

The answer to this question is a resounding "YES!"

In fact, they've already done it. It's called The American Adventure and it's located in Epcot.

Maybe, to some degree, that American Adventure is responsible for some of the declining interest in HoP. I mean once you've seen AA, you can't help but notice how much HoP pales in comparison.

I absolutely agree, Pickstar.  American Adventure remains my favorite Disney attraction, by far.  

But, you know, when I talk to friends and colleagues who visit American Adventure, there's no resounding "that was great" reaction.  Some folks feel that way, but just as many dismiss it because it's "long" or "boring"  or "preachy."  A few actually hate it for its hopscotch-thru-history approach.

If Disney is going to create a show that seats hundreds of guests and cycles twice or three times an hour, I have to assume they expect that they will--at minimum-- satisfy most of those guests' expectations for entertainment.  HoP doesn't come close to that.  American Adventure is better but, anecdotally, I don't believe it clears the bar.

Disney could do far better.  My bet is that they won't, that half-hearted efforts like the Lincoln refurb in '99 and this HoP mess is all we'll get.  Hot characters sell a lot better than cold, dead white guys.

MJ

When in Cyberspace visit http://www.plausible-impossible.com

This show has got to be a tough thing to work on. Disney is more focused on the entertainment side, which is why we won't see things like Tim Russert covering Lincoln's campaign like they have at the Lincoln library. I think the best we can hope for is a HSM-star montage on favorite presidents that'll turn off the tweens and Disneyoids and everyone else.

My family and I love Hall of Presidents!  Sure the show could use a change or two, but the theatre is awesome and it is a great place to take a break during a day at Magic Kingdom.  My wife is from another country and she is simply captivated during both Hall of Presidents and American Adventure even though we have seen both dozens of times.  

As far as the Presidential speeches, I say keep them in!  I'm not G.W. Bush's biggest fan, but I think his speech is very inspirational.  He is speaking as the elected leader of our country, not as a Republican party recruiter. Personal politics aside, I think it is great that the President of The United States actually took a bit of time to record a speech for a Disney attraction that will be seen by millions from around the world.  What an awesome bit of public relations!

There ARE other things great about Disney besides dark rides, fireworks and roller coasters.

And in case you were wondering who the fools clapping for robots are, that's us.

Personally I'd like to see the last five Presidents standing in a line while Lincoln slaps them all repeatedly "Three Stooges Style" for about a half hour.

I would watch BrerArtist's version of HoP for hours on end!!!

Stinkin' brilliant.  :o)

captainhook91 said:

"I would watch BrerArtist's version of HoP for hours on end!!!

Stinkin' brilliant.  :o)"

Ditto! Sounds like my kinda show!

Maybe the speech should be given by presidents Josiah Barlett or David Palmer. Or James Marshall or Andrew Shepherd.

Thats the best way to make the office look good.

I'm suprised Disney hasn't thought to theme this area a bit with Ben Gates and co. from National Treasure.  One would think that if those movies are doing so well that they could use that.  Get Nicholas Cage to narrate or something.  

Numairhawk...While I think a National Treasure tie in is interesting I think it breaks the Liberty Square theme...however one of the things National Treasure does is get folks thinking that history can be exciting.  Using that lightheartedness that NAtional Treasure brings, perhaps a shoe revolving around fun facts about the presidents, US history, etc. would be an idea...it would keep HOP grounded in history, yet make it fun, and somewhat educational.  It also avoids the need to have to be over the top inspirational or downright depressing...it can simply be fun.

Rluke: or Mackenzie Allen?

dizney: A revolving shoe does sound interesting, but I'm not sure that would fit the Liberty Square theme either.  =)

1. This is political, just like so much of what the Disney folks (and Hollywood for that matter) do these days.

2. I have been to the Hall of Presidents perhaps 5 times over the years, and it has NEVER been even half full, so having 3 shows per hour instead of two isn't a capacity issue--it is however a "wait 'til the next show or move on to some other attraction" issue, so maybe shortening the entire show is a noble goal, regardless of the politics.

3. Disney should have learned from the "Disney's America" experience that doing anything too historic-political is a problem. We go to theme parks to get AWAY from the real world, including politics, not to have it shoved down our throats. I can imagine some anti-New-Deal folks booing the FDR AA in "The American Adventure" too, and certainly the propagandized version of China presented in the newly-remade "Wonders of China" movie is a crock paid for by the same wonderful folks who raped Tibet and brought us all Tien-An-Min Square tanks.

Bottomline? Stick to friendly Mice. Real people from real history, past or present, are a real departure from vacation escapism.