Hill with a body slam from the top rope !!!

Yeah you stupid reader, you're wrong, wrong, wrong.  Neener, neener, neener. That's quite enough negative talk - there'll be no more of it.

Don't mention that Disney could have built any AA figure they wanted to - if they can afford to buy ABC,  Fox Family, and Michael Ovitz, they can afford an AA figure, even a big one. That is unacceptable negative talk. Promise me you won't mention that Pixar can change any dialogue they want with John's help - especially after all the lame dialogue that's been written by Imagineers these past fifty years. Finally, no negative comments on this ride - cause it's all Disney money - it's not money from admission tickets, ponchos and plush - it's all Disney money.

What sucks the most is that when The Little Mermaid came out in '89, there was plenty of room for improvement with WDW's 20,000 leagues under the Sea. Instead? They close the ride in '95. And stick a greeting grotto and a statue of triton in the water. Followed by removing the statue and giving us ***. I mean pooh.

Now because Little mermaid is on broadway theyre gonna remove Voyage from MGM.

Didnt they ever think of using TLM in any of these undersea adventures? She is the most popular Disney Princess.

I like Nemo.... but its gonna be lame. regardless of how awesome the technology is. You cant re-create the oneliners from that movie.

IMO its all just another way to sell merchandise. Nemo merchandise. Just like Stitch. Blah blah Disney is a business. I spend most of my money there. But its still magic to me. I just want more Ariel stuff. And princess dresses for adults. Yeah thats all i want.

Also a few tech details:
DL's Nemo ride is simply a new coat of AA on the skeleton of the existing ride...While the Nemo characters in LS's ride will reportedly be projected CG animation on "invisible" screens inside a REAL sealife tank that's the focus of the attraction.  And, as Jim noted, all the other stuff in the building, too.

(Oh, and if you think Ariel wasn't added as an in-joke background figure to the "Mermaid's treasure" section during the last/pre-Grotto days of WDW's original 20K ride, Mr. Greenskyp, you've been submerged entirely too long!)  :)

Jim, you sound like a Disney apologist... however correct you may be.

I don't see this change as a way to sell more merchandise, I see it more as a way to liven up a very dull attraction. The hydrolators were nice, but boring. My elementary aged kids did not particlularly enjoy the place, etcept for the fish feeding time.

Adding Turtle Talk was a great addition to the pavilion, and making an interesting pre-show that hopefully ties in with what else you're going to see, based on characters that kids like, will only make the kids stay there a little longer...and maybe learn something in the process.

I think "anything" will be an improvement over the last time I visited "The Living Seas". Watching the deep sea diver come in and out of the airlock was the high point of being there. It was one attraction I eventually crossed off my map and just didn't bother with.

Two things DerekJ:

1. I'm a chick. ;)

2. I'm in my early twenties... Meaning my memories of 20k are limited. There may have been an in-joke. But i was too young to appreciate it, and now i'm too old to remember it. Pictures would be nice. If you have them that is.

Not that these Nemo additions are perfect, but face it Future World in Epcot needs additions like this, Especially if it adds color or spunk to the park.  Future world look is getting old and tired.  Would u rather them build another Test track, or mission space.  I think this is what disney has gotten away from at epcot, adding the smaller attractions that are not on such a gigantic scale but provide something else to do that isnt an after ride activity.  Thier losing Cranium command, ruined figment, finally added a mission space people could go on, built a big blue building behind Canadas mountains (even though Sorin is amazing), Wont take down the mickey wand off Space ship earth, Still call Innoventions an attraction, hasnt added any rides to World show case in forever, etc.  This change to Seas is needed.  Now hopefully they can get rid of Honey I shrunk the audience, the new figment, and put something amazing in Wonders of Life.  

The entire Seas Pavilion was borring, maybe this will add some life to it.  How many people used to come out of Seas and think "there wasnt even a ride".  You cant have an entire pavilion based on post show activities.  

I enjoy when Disney adds thier characters to rides or pavilions, That is the reason I go to Disney world to see thier characters.  

BGrego13: Your quote, How many people used to come out of Seas and think "there wasnt even a ride".
I remembered the first time I visited the attraction, after the Hydrolators, you boarded a little blue train. Upon my return visits, when the hydrolator doors opened, there was just a large show room in front of you. I thought I had lost my mind and perhaps there "never" was a ride (be it a small one), in TLS.

What's worse is that you had to wait through the simulated hydrolators just to exit the building! I have a fear of elevators in general, and even though these were not real, the "being enclosed" feeling really bothered me.

Personally, I can't wait to go on the submarine voyage again.  I've been excited about the redo of the ride since Jim told all three of us that appeared for his DL tour all about it a few years back.  If everything that Jim told us is true, this will guarantee me going on this ride at least three to four times.  As for the LIving Seas, it's just a matter of time before I find my way back to Florida.  Perhaps in October...

Awesome! Open for October! Does anyone have a clearer date on the debut of the new Nemo show at DAK? Hopefully its before Oct 25...

Jim, you did sound pretty hostile in that column. I agree with you anyway though - for once. I think they should have CMs playing Mickey in there more often - Ariel would be cool as well though.

The last time I visited WDW, I had very limited time. Originally I was hot to see EPCOT - an attraction I missed when the first time I visited WDW as a kid (I've been to the park a total of 2 times).  But when I read the park's map, and looked over the list of EPCOT attractions, I thought to myself: "EPCOT looks like it's nothing more than a 3D geography and science lesson, and I'm here to have FUN. I'm going to MGM and Magic Kingdom".  So I agree with some here that EPCOT needs new entertainment-based attractions to stay viable. So does Animal Kingdom. The "Bug's Life" show and the Tree of Life were cool, but otherwise, man, is that place a disappointment!

Give it up, Jim.

Obviously, paying for an Annual Pass makes anybody more qualified to design a theme park than a lifetime of study and experience.  Through some amazing fluke, WDI has filled its offices with the only people in the world who don't know what a Disney Park should be and neglected to hire all these brilliant 'armchair imagineers' who, because they're overly familiar with what has been done in the past think they're the only folks who can create a new and exciting future.

I don't understand why every attraction has to reference a current movie.  If some things are fascinating to kids, but go over their little heads a bit- well, so what?  Those are the things that linger in a child's imagination long after all of the cartoon references have grown stale.  

Swiss Family Robinson- I've never seen it, but it means more to me than Disney's Tarzan.  I'm a fan of 20K, but I was an even bigger fan of the attraction at the park, because it hinted at an adult experience.

If your kids are bored with things that aren't just cartoons, you have to work on that little mind and encourage them to think for themselves.  Allow them to get a little confused- that's the beginning of learning.  Allow them to be a little afraid or upset- it's part of the palette of emotions they'll have to endure the rest of their lives.  Sugar coated, brightly colored experiences are just a part of the whole Disney experience.

Ron, did you take your pill today or swallow your suppositories by mistake?  That's what these kinds of message boards and sites are about, dipstick.

Dear Jim H.,

My, that was one very harsh  rant you had going there. Do you feel better now? Did you get it that all out of your system?

Good. I hope so. Because -- to be blunt here, Jim H. -- he was just steamed as hell. He didn't know you designed the rides in question. He didn't know they were your babies and would defend their honor TO THE DEATH. I think you need to sprinkle on more pixie dust. ;-)

My only question is how "educational" will The Living Nemo & Friends be? I mean, we're talking about a film with a target audience of, what, kids in grade school? Will The Living Seas become a place where I'm going to step inside and hear "Nemo is a fish. He lives in the ocean. He can live there because he has special parts called "gills" that let him breathe underwater. You do not have gills. If you want to go underwater, you need a SCUBA suit."? I mean, I know I'm not going to hear "The clown fish, one of twenty-seven species of the Amphiprioninae sub-family, live in a mutual relationship with sea anemones, or in some case settle in some varieties of soft corals, or large polyp stony corals. Once an anemone or coral has been adopted, the clownfish will defend it vigorously."*, but where will the education level be?
*courtsey Wikipedia

Wow, Jim, I think somebody put on his grumpy pants this morning.
I am excited to hear, however, that the new Living Seas Nemo attraction will be open in time for our annual trip this November. We haven't been to Living Seas in years for the same reason other here have already mentioned -- it was boring as heck. I never understood why they removed the ride portion. At least that was something. Looking forward to the updates. Glad to hear that Disney is finally spending some of their billions on the parks, rather than always expecting someone else to foot the bill. Now if they'll just steer some of that cash towards MGM, World Showcase, and Animal Kingdom.

What happened to the nice, jolly Jim Hill who would have answered this reader's question with a positive enthusiasm and reassuring response?  He might have said "Don't worry, my dear reader" instead of "you don't know what the hell you're talking about."  This "Why For?" seems to be completly lacking a friendly, professional tone of voice.

My wife and I are sceince geeks as well as Disney geeks. Living Seas has always been one of our favorites -- we love watching the real fishies. And so did our 5 year old (well, only 4 when he was last there. So, while I enjoy a god show, too, I'm also worried that too much show will both dumb down the attraction and perhaps emphasize the cartoon characters over the True Life Adventures.

And oh, yeah: we love Animal Kingdom, too. And Animal Kingdom lodge just might be our favorite hotel.

And let's not be too hard on Jim, here, folks--It's like an ugly child, nobody wants to be the one to *say* it, but fact is...it WAS a Stupid Question.
Let's look at it in detail:
---
Why does the Walt Disney Company keep doing this? First create a truly great attraction, then quickly throw together a half-ass clone of that same ride on the cheap. Don't they understand how doing something like really hurts Disney's reputation? Don't they realize that the public isn't stupid?
---
Okay, so Will had seen only concept art, didn't know WHAT the attractions were, or even if they were different attractions (which they were), but--with a leap of intuitive logic--immediately assumed that
- A) They were identical attractions with no creative or technical distinctions between the two, because
- B) Disney is cheap and only clones itself to save costs, because
- C) Disney is Evil (insert Pressler era Toad/Pooh/etc. whine here)

...My, what psychic powers our dear poster has!
It wasn't so much that he genuinely *believed* Disney had "cut corners", unquote, but that he HOPED they had.  So he could complain about it.  He didn't know whether or not they actually had, of course, but it never hurts to dream.

And again we say:  People....Paul Pressler is GONE.  He's been gone for several years now.  The Boogeyman of Cheap Movie-Obsessed Tie-Ins will haunt your bedroom closet no longer, as it now being occupied by Mike & Sully.
It wasn't so much that Jim was picking on a Poor Little Net-Anonymous Lamb, as an old-generation whiner who wanted to whine, so that it could be just like his old generation again.  Well, Will...it ain't.  And yes, to answer your question, they're different.
(And if some of us use flyswatters to swat and some of use hammers, that is our own toolbox.)

..and here comes the other half of the Mega Powers 2.0.. DEREK! Jim took a few proverbial steel chairs but his tag-team partner will rip his yellow tank top, Hulk out and deliver that crushing (no pun intended) leg drop.

I love all you guys. :)

Well, keep in mind, part of Will's paranoia was not only over the replacing of DL's 20K, but probably that he'd automatically knee-jerk assumed it was the same situation as "Crush's Turtle Talk" being exported over to DCA's Pixar attraction, without...any particular place or reason to put it in, over there.
What with Crush's turtle fact dude-dishing being so well suited to the Epcot "info-tainment" it had been developed for, and only exported to the West Coast out of educational context simply because the darn thing was so popular overnight.

If that was the conclusion Will wanted to leap into with both feet, and taking absolutely no other assumption into account, it's certainly understandable--
But on the whole...wouldn't it have made more sense to ASK what the two attractions were, before pronouncing The Death of Disney Imagineering based on our own fertile imagination?

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i feel that jim, you may have gone a little overboard in making this reader feel like a fool. he's just a fan like you. i find it depressing to remember that everyone is trying to out-fan everyone else.

"Because -- to be blunt here, Will L. -- you don't know what the hell you're talking about."

Thank you Jim! Who the hell judges an attraction based on the concept art? That is just downright dumb. Since when does concept art display what really happens? And Will's intelligence decreased even more when he said that Disneyland's would have twice as many fish. For goodness sake, do you not know what The Living Seas is about? It is one of the largest aquariums in the world!!! There will be hundreds, maybe thousands of more fish in Epcot than in Disneyland.

To quote John Stossel..... Give me a break!

Jeez, Jim, from the tone of your response you'd have thought Will was personally attacking YOU.  I mean, it wasn't like he was griping about something YOU've done or haven't done [ie, haven't finished several promised article series, Disneyland CD, etc.]  Heck, I was thinking about shooting you an email with a question myself but I'm not that into abuse.

Hmmm... yeah, perhaps a little too hard on the misinformed guy, but do I also detect a little bit of negativism in the "annoying factoids" and "work even harder to keep the world's oceans pollution-free" statements?  Sounds like oyu aren't looking forward to that type of content.  Isn't education part of what Epcot is supposed to be about (even if Future World is changed to Discoveryland?)

i can't wait for the reopening of the living seas. Keep the nice work. I love Finding nemo.

How "timeless" will NEMO be - as a franchise?  How many nostalgic passholders and Disneyland guests returning to ride their beloved submarines will go on it again after it has become a cartoon featuring NEMO?  And, not even Captain Nemo at that!  

Tomorrowland, as with Futureworld, was based on the idea of "Edutainment" - offering educational experiences with entertainment and adventure as the spoon that holds them.  Even Space Mountain is becoming little more than a glorified rock and roll light show with the advent of the new show they are testing during Grad nights in California now and implementing for the public next year!  That clip of "TODAYLAND" in the "MEET THE ROBINSONS" trailer is far more believeable than we might wish it to be.  

The attractions and adventures have got to be timeless in their foundation for lasting placement in Disney Parks.  Look at the classic of JUNGLE CRUISE...still one of the biggest draws for repeat guests at the Disney Parks it is installed in.  HAUNTE D MANSION - even though a film was made after the fact - is still timeless...even PIRATES - with the new film elements added, is still timeless.  

FINDING NEMO may, or may not, pass the timeless test.  Same with CARS, BUZZ LIGHTYEAR...whatever....

And, these PIXAR based attractions are based solely upon synergetic ties with films and entertainment.  Nothing to do with the timeless story of education blended into adventure and entertainment.  

Just a personal take on this thing.

I think the images that Pixar & Disney plans to do for both attractions should be very interesting. For an example, go on the Monsters Incorporated attraction at Califoirnia Adventure. In one scene the bad guy (name forgotton) appears to materialize out of thin air. I beleive the affect (I may be wrong) is based on Peppers Ghost, though the image isn't transparent. Another example could be the new projection in the POTC attraction. Just my opinion.
wec

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