Sweet Lord!  Jim actually made it 90% of the way through an article about John Lasseter before bashing him.  It's a new record! ;)

All kidding aside, Randy Newman is an odd choice for a "Disney" film.  But I'm willing to give it a shot.

I really do hope that Disney does farm out traditional animation, though.  The only caveat -- it's probably being farmed out to people who used to work for the mouse in the first place!

I've heard RUMORS (can't remember where) that Musker & Clements planned to relocate the Russian fairytale and take it South--
Which would not only be a more appropriate place for frogs, but also for Randy Newman songs.

No confirmation on that, but all I can say is....that'd -better- be the case, John.  Randy can do his lounge/mock-Copland for Pixar, but when he wants to fill Alan Menken's princess-song shoes, he's just got the wrong size feet.

Me...I'm tired of hearing Randy's voice........he can write the songs, but please leave him off the vocals.
Plus his songs ended up all sounding alike.

Like I've been saying, John Lasetter is not going to revive Disney animation without stepping on a few toes. He seems to be one step ahead of everybody else.

However, maybe Don Hahn's "sabbatical" is the result of fatigue from all the trouble that took place at Disney over the past six or seven years.

I really don't think Disney will resort to outsourcing in the long term. They're only doing it for Enchanted, because they already threw out their hand-drawing tools when the decision was made to use 2-D for that particular film.

Whoops!  I just read what I wrote -- I mean I DON'T want Disney's animation farmed out -- AT ALL!!!  EEK!

If these rumors are true, I am not a fan of it at all. I am sick of John Lasseter trying to shove Pixar down WDFA's throught. WDFA is NOT Pixar and it never should be. To be quite frank, he has pretty much no experience with Disney Princess films or musicals. Disney is not primarily known for their wonderful animation, traditional animation or anything like that (although they do have wonderful traditional animation). They are known for two things...... musicals and the character triad of villain-princess-prince. I thought John Lasetter was the one that was going to bring WDFA back to its original form & yet he has gone against multiple wishes of Disney Veterans.  Randy Newman is nice, but he is certainly no Alan Menken.

Oh lets see..I can't quite remember.....The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Pocahontas, The Hunchback of Notre Dame...........any of those have noteworthy songs?

"Well, that's why many industry observers were surprised by 'Finding Nemo' and 'The Incredibles' Which didn't have any out-takes included as part of their credit sequences.
"his concern was that these credit sequences were becoming too predictable, too formulaic. Which is why John made a conscious decision to depart from this very successful formula. So that Pixar's films then wouldn't be predictable."
----
Umm, probably also because A) it would've been too hard for fish to trip over things, and B) because the Incredibles' stylized universe wasn't really a pal-around place where we could have an affectionate fourth-wall laugh with the characters, as much as we could with Buzz and Woody.  (Somehow, I just can't picture Syndrome blowing one of his lines and then chuckling over it with Mr. I.)

That's not to say that by the time Disney-proper was doing its own cheesy third-rate imitations on "Brother Bear", the idea -wasn't- also in danger up being up for grabs by Dreamworks.
We did get a self-poke at Pixar's John Ratzenberger fetish in the "Cars" coda, but also a cuddly pal-with-the-audience spoof on other Pixar-ana...Outtakes would've just been redundant.

And then, of course, there's the other matter of:
===
"This also explain why Lasseter hired Thomas Newman to write the score for 'Finding Nemo' and Michael Giacchio to handle the music for 'The Incredibles'. Randy Newman had obviously done a super job scoring Pixar's first four films. But John didn't want his studio to get too staid, too predictable. Which is why Lasseter went with different composers on 'Nemo' & 'Incredibles' before inviting Newman back up to Emeryville to come work on "Cars."
"Okay. Now that you have a better understanding of how John actually works (I.E. That this guy will sometimes deliberately make changes in order to keep things from getting stale)"
---
Uh, well, I don't know--DOES John Lasseter usually tell what composers Andrew Stanton and Brad Bird can or can't hire for their own film visions when he doesn't direct them?
(I mean, y'know, maybe he really does, but was there, like, a memo about it, or something?)  0_o?

Now I can't stop thinking about that Randy Newman scene in an episode Family Guy.

Oh, let's see... I can't quite remember, either... Sail Away, Good Old Boys, Little Criminals, Trouble in Paradise, Land of Dreams, Faust, Bad Love... any of these have noteworthy songs?

"Sail Away," "Political Science," "Lonely at the Top," "Dayton, Ohio- 1903," "Rednecks," "Short People," "It's Money That I Love," "Baltimore," "Dixie Flyer," "You've Got a Friend in Me," "I Will Go Sailing No More," "When She Loved Me" perhaps?

I'm a Menken fan and I enjoy *most* of his scores... But Newman's music is far more complex than anything Mr. Menken has ever written. Compare Newman's brilliantly restrained and hauntingly-beautiful "Real Emotional Girl" to Menken's predictable, bland, and cliched "A Whole New World" and you will undoubtedly see what I mean.

I, for one, eagerly look forward to Randy's songwriting of "The Frog Princess."

Okay, I so don't agree with you. I myself am no hater of lover of Randy Newman, 'cause I think his scores are mediocre, but am a lover of Alan Menken. I think a traditionally animated Princess movie *should* be scored by Menken and Slater because I believe Menken has that Disney Princess-feeling that he can put into the music; where Newman has got non of this feeling.

Jim Hill Says: "More to the point, Lasseter realizes what's really riding on "The Frog Princess." Which is the revival of traditional animation at Walt Disney Studios. If this picture tanks, traditional may never get another shot at the Mouse House. Which is why John is taking no chances with this Ron'n'John production."

Taking no chances?! TAKING NO CHANCES?!! HELLO!

A new composer/lyricist that no one has ever heard of versus Newman would be "taking chances".

Someone fresh out of their first theatrical success off-off-off-off Broadway versus Newman would be 'taking chances".

Alan Menken (with a list of who's who in lyricists) is hardly someone you'd be taking a chance on.

PTindy said:  "Oh lets see..I can't quite remember.....The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Pocahontas, The Hunchback of Notre Dame...........any of those have noteworthy songs?"

That's hitting the nail on the head. In fact, when it comes to writing great songs that advance plot and develop characer, Menken is the man! Not only does he write great material, he wirtes in whatever style the story calls for. B&B is very much an operetta. "Mermaid" has all those great Caribbean-inspired beats. "Aladdin" was filled with Cotton-club jazz, the score for "Poca" is one of the most lush and 'earthy', 'organic' scores that Menken has written. "Hunchback" is his masterpiece - it almost qualifies as opera. His melodies sweep and soar and his talent has been rewarded with how many Oscars? When the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences split the music categories into "Best Score, Drama" and "Best Score, Comedy or Musical" it was because of Menken winning all the time. The award was jokingly referred to as the Alan Menken" award for a few years.

I think that Lesseter is "taking  a chance" with Newman. All of his songs sound the same. He only writes in one style - his. Now, while his scores exhibit a variety of tone and style, his songs all sound like "You've got a Friend in Me".

You could not possibly say that "Be Our Guest", "Under The Sea", "A Whole New World", "Just Around The Riverbend", "A Little Piece of Heaven" and "Hellfire" sound the same.

Good Luck, but unless "Frog Princess" is urban, or gritty, contemporary - I don't see Randy's music telling that story. If it's a traditional fairy tale - give it to the master (regardless of how many irons he has in the fire).

Those who say Newman's music sounds all the same are clearly not familiar with his music.

You'll find how ridiculous that statement is when you listen to say, "You've Got A Friend In Me" and compare it to something like "Mikey's."

Heck, find me a person who thinks "Dixie Flyer" and "I Love L.A." sound the same, and I'll be a monkey's uncle. Find me a person who thinks "Sail Away" and "The Masterman and Baby J" sound the same, and I'll be the *son* of a monkey's uncle.

@AskMike:

Disney is only known for the triad of villain-princess-prince?  Uh...

Bambi, Pinocchio, Fantasia, Peter Pan, Dumbo, 101 Dalmations, Lady & the Tramp, and I could go on...

Disney is known for creating previously unparalleled, quality animation that never relied on any formula other than it had a good idea for animating!

Chanticleer said: "Those who say Newman's music sounds all the same are clearly not familiar with his music."

I could not agree with you more, Chanticleer. And perhaps I was hasty in that assesment. I've been listening to Randy's music for years (I actually owned a 45 of "Short People"), but what I'm talking about is styles.

Randy writes rock & pop, rhythm and blues, dixie & country - all of the populist forms of composition, VERY well.

But I don't think he has a style in his pocket that lends itself to princesses and magic, poisoned apples and "Happily Ever After". I've never heard him write anything that could compete with "The Second Star To The Right", "Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo", or "Bella Notte" - "A Dream Is A Wish Your Heart Makes".

Menken has proven that he can write in styles that lend themselves to a Fairy Tale aesthetic. Music that transcends the here and now - transports us to Once Upon A Time. Randy is rooted in the "now", the "here and today". What rocks us. Alan takes us on magic carpet rides to Agrabah and makes us believe that a "tale as old as time" lives in our hearts and is relevant.

Randy writes what Randy writes - and he's good at it. Alan Menken's music makes us want to live under the sea.

chanticleer: I do...

>>So what do you do to make sure that movie-goers will be able to differentiate between these three somewhat similiar projects? So that your critics won't be able to say "Disney's just repeating itself. They keep trotting out the same old tired thing" ?

Well, for starters, you make sure that "Enchanted," "Rapunzel" and "The Frog Princess" don't have a common composer. . . . .

Given that Lasseter really wants this project to succeed ... Well, that's why John turned to Randy. Having worked with Newman on all three of the features that Lasseter has personally directed, he knows that this man can deliver the goods.<<

This is pure, classic MBA-with-a-specialty-in-marketing logic.  We made the change because "we don't want this to be like the other two movies" and "Randy has always worked out well for us in the past."  The two reasons are in direct conflict with each other, the decision was made over the heads of the guys who are ostensibly in charge of creating a cohesive work of art, and neither reason has anything to do with the only GOOD reason to make a change: "what will make the best movie?"

I saw signs in Cars that Lasseter had started believing his own press and losing his grip as a consequence, but conceded that one movie didn't indicate a trend.  But one movie plus THIS?  Now I'm really concerned.  Lasseter may not be the next Disney.  He may be the next Eisner

Lordy, I hope I'm wrong . . . .

mawnck said:
>>"So what do you do to make sure that movie-goers will be able to differentiate between these three somewhat similiar projects? So that your critics won't be able to say "Disney's just repeating itself. They keep trotting out the same old tired thing'"?
I saw signs in Cars that Lasseter had started believing his own press and losing his grip as a consequence, but conceded that one movie didn't indicate a trend.  But one movie plus THIS?  Now I'm really concerned.  Lasseter may not be the next Disney.  He may be the next Eisner
Lordy, I hope I'm wrong . . . .
----
Possibly, possibly...  :)

Before casting any stones at "Cars" based on what you saw in theaters, try going back and watching the "Inspiration for Cars" documentary on the DVD:
Where Lasseter not only repeats the "Summer family trip" story, but also shows film of the road trip the crew took on the "forgotten" corners of Route 66, which could practically be a Learning Channel documentary by itself.
More importantly, it shows how (maybe -too-) close Lasseter was to his own story, and what we all thought seemed like "the Doc Hollywood ripoff", and "trotting out the old plot formula", now has more of an "OHHHhhh!...THAT would explain it!" moment--Shucks, he really -did- know what he was doing, after all.

(And why do we give it this helpful plug?  Just to get the "Cars" gripes out of the way early, before we find out whether or not there was an actual reason why John thought Randy might've been better for "Frog Princess"--Still can't find any confirmation yet on the setting thing.
And, also to find out whether Jim really knows who directed "Nemo" and "Incredibles".)  :)

If you listen to Randy Newman's "You've Got A friend In Me" from "Toy Story", then follow it with "I Love To See You Smile" from Ron Howard's "Parenthood", you will be amazed (and perhaps appalled) to find that they are virtually identical in melody and instrumental arrangement. Also, the song from "Monsters Inc." (the title of which I can't recall offhand) has the same opening two bars or so of melody as Hoagy Carmichael's "Rockin' Chair". I'm not much of a fan of Randy Newman, as I think he's been allowed to get away with a lot of stuff while his supporters and fans turn a deaf ear toward it.

(For that matter, so has John Williams. Much more than been "inspired by", he's shamelessly ripped off Holst, Korngold, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, and probably more. But instead of being called on it, the Academy just keeps handing him Oscars...)

Shamefully, John Williams has earned far more nominations for his work than he ever won.

Complete and utter HOGWASH.  This site  contains the worst sort of shameless rumourmongering (and worst writing) on the net.  There's not one ounce of truth to any of the speculation in this article. Yes, changes in composers were made.  Who cares?  Menken and Newman are both fine composers.   No wonder this site has such a rotten reputation.  

I was really hoping "The Frog Princess" would be a return to Disney form. Now I expect it to be the next "Treasure Planet". I hate that Ron Clements & John Musker are constantly forced to compromise when they have created so many classic hits for the studio.

This is really disappointing.

PingBack from http://chaespot.com/movies/2006/11/14/new-movie-release-monday-mousewatch-why-a-change-of-composers-on-the-frog-princess/

>>Yes, changes in composers were made.  Who cares?<<

Obviously we do, Scoob.  

Not that I'd expect anyone named after a Hanna-Barbera character to have a clue about animation . . . .

I would far rather that Alan Menken be allowed to score Disney's first film in the heralded return to traditional animation. Menken is a brilliant composer of memorable and melodic songs that have made a fine addition to the Disney canon. Though tragically, Howard Ashman is no longer there to write his sophisticated lyrics, I'm sure that Glenn Slater would do a fine job working with Menken.

As for Randy Newman, well, I just don't see him in the same league. He writes the kind of ditties that I associate with some guy plunking away at a piano in a hotel bar, not the type of lushly orchestrated, sincere melodies I associate with Menken. Newman's songs are pleasant to a point, but the lyrics are always done in his own talk-sing style, with too many words seemingly shoehorned in, creating a melody that doesn't seem to flow that well. Plus, I find there is a general sameness to his songs, and in the case of the ones I cited in my last post, two songs that are so damn near identical in melody that I challenge anyone to tell them apart were it not for the different lyrics.

If Disney is to get back on track with a revival of their handdrawn classics, I believe that Alan Menken is the guy to jumpstart the process.

PingBack from http://anima2.wordpress.com/2006/11/14/nuevo-compositor-para-the-frog-princess/

PingBack from http://www.streetrat.net/2006/11/14/exit-menken-at-frog-princess/

Alan Menken is an amazing composer.  That should be a given.  His score for "Hunchback" is quite simply his masterwork, in scope and sense.  It's hard to believe the same guy composed "The Little Mermaid."

But Alan Menken is not the foremost authority on what the voice of a Disney princess should sound like.  To be sure, he understood well (with the help of Howard Ashman) how to create the voices for Ariel, Belle, and Jasmine.  But he was not the writer of the songs of "Snow White," or "Cinderella," or "Sleeping Beauty."

Frank Churchill, Leigh Harline, and Paul Smith (the songwriters for "Snow White") had never created music for a fairy princess before.  Their best credit before this was "Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf?"  Would anyone suspect that the same songwriting team of that cute (but hardly groundbreaking) ditty would be capable of "One Song" or "Someday My Prince Will Come?"

Mack David, Al Hoffman, and Jerry Livingston (the primary songwriters for "Cinderella") had no experience writing for princesses.  David's career was primarily based in popular songwriting (and later, television theme music), but nothing that would lead one to think of "A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes."  Al Hoffman wrote "Mairzy Doats," a piece of music hardly to the caliber of what he produced for this film.  Livingston's credits included only minor songs in minor films (including "Let's Hitch a Horsie to the Automobile").

Sammy Fain and Jack Lawrence (along with some Disney studio storymen) wrote the songs for "Sleeping Beauty," (with an assist from Tchaikovsk, of course).  Probably the most famous of all these composers, Sammy Fain was an established songwriter when he started writing for Disney.  But he was a writer of popular songs first and foremost, and had never written lyrics for a fairy tale before.

All this to say:  Alan Menken is amazing.  But he is not the only composer to help a princess find her voice, and some of Disney's best-loved princesses found their voices from people one might not think of as the obvious choice.  Seeems the material helped them rise to the occassion, and I'm willing to think that Randy Newman will do the same thing here.

Will it sound like Alan Menken?  Nope.  But neither do the scores for "Cinderella" or "Snow White."  There must be room in the Disney universe for another composer to help a princess find her voice.  (And anyone who can compose "When She Loved Me" or "Our Town," two of his finest songs ever, certainly has a chance.)

jiminyc said:

Will it sound like Alan Menken?  Nope.  But neither do the scores for "Cinderella" or "Snow White."  There must be room in the Disney universe for another composer to help a princess find her voice.  (And anyone who can compose "When She Loved Me" or "Our Town," two of his finest songs ever, certainly has a chance.)

As a composer, I've learned over the years what my strengths are and what my weaknesses are. Randy Newman is a fine composer, and I don't argue that fact. "When She Loved Me" and "Our Town" are great songs (the former is even more poignant when performed by a male in the recording of "On The Record"). Even "I Will Go Sailing No More" is a gut-wrencher. But if you compare these songs, take them apart to see what makes them tick, they all SOUND the same. I guess it's possible that Randy MAY give "voice" to a princess, but I don't think he "CAN".

It takes a special gift to write "Fairy tales", otherwise there would be a million Grimms or Andersens. It also takes a special gift to write the sounds that illustrate fairy tales for our ears. The aforementioned artists who wrote the classic songs for the Disney Films were hand-selected by Walt because he knew they had that gift.

Over time, I've come to realize, as I said before, that Randy does what he does VERY well. But so far, in a career spanning decades, he has not shown us anything that takes us to "Once Upon A Time" or "Far Away, In A Magical Land". Despite his talent and facility as a composer, can he rise to the challenge? Can he lift himself so far out of his time-honed element that he can see the castle in the distance?Perhaps.

But isn't THAT what this discussion has been about? Randy is a maybe, with a question mark, about whether or not he can deliver not only a fairy-tale score, but the songs that raise and inspire the princess (and vicariously, us) - that's a difficult job. Trust me - I know. We know that Menken CAN, and WILL most likely do so again. So why trust the return to 2-D to a maybe? Why not just go with the proven track record?

And, if you do choose another composer, how about a fellow chameleon like Stephen Schwartz? One moment he writes majestic and epic for "Prince of Egypt", then whimsical for "Geppetto", and then he rocks us with "Wicked". Or maybe Jeanie Tesori? People who have proven track records composing scores that tell stories and develop characters.

Most of the songs that Randy Newman has written for Pixar films elaborate on the emotional impact of a story point. But they neither develop the character nor move the story forward. They are moments of reflection. Beautiful moments of reflection, but only reflections, nonetheless. Your reflection in a mirror can carry all of the pain you feel inside, but ultimately it's insubstantial.

Yeah, yeah.

Clements and Musker are the directors.  Clements and Musker wanted Menken.  

I don't care if Randy Newman is friggin' Beethoven.  That should have been the end of it.  Otherwise, we've just changed one set of meddlesome execs for another.

Also, I'm just not buying that Lasseter wanted something different. I mean Randy Newman is doing Toy Story 3. So Alan Menken is doing Enchanted (2007), Toy Story is on track for 2008...THE SAME YEAR AS FROG PRINCESS. So Lasseter is saying that he doesn't want Menken in it because he is doing Enchanted the year before....but he wants Newman in it who is doing TS3 the same year? And how many people want to bet that 2008's Wall-E will also be scored by Newman?


" @AskMike: Disney is only known for the triad of villain-princess-prince?  Uh... "
I did not say that. I said Disney (movie-wise) is known PRIMARILY for the triad and the musical. And by Prince/Princess, they don't have to literally be a prince or princess. Non-princesses I'd include as princesses include Mulan, Nala, Meg, Esmerelda, Wendy, etc.

I'm not sure what to think about this...  I don't like the fact that Lasseter undermined Musker and Clements, but to me, it just doesn't seem like that big a deal.  Randy Newman is a capable composer.  Menken and Schwarz will compose a lot of other projects for Disney.  In John, I trust.

A well-placed and reliable source on another site is reporting that Randy Newman was Musker and Clements's decision, not Lasseter's.  If this is so, and I got no reason to doubt it, then us chickens have been getting mighty riled up over nothing.  And I owe an apology to several talented folks at WDFA.  Sorry, Ron, John, John L., Randy, and whoever else I've disparaged.  

Jim?

Well.... according to TheSeaOfTheWakingDreams.blogspot.com, TFP is going to be set in a New Orleans type setting with a Jazz soundtrack (not theatrical). If this is true, I will no longer call it a musical. Haven't they ever heard the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" saying? These theatrical soundtracks have been popular and the cornerstone of Disney Animation from Snow White to Cinderella to Aladdin to Mulan. It worked for 60 years and people loved it. Anyway, I hope they go back to Menken. IMO, Menken & his theatrical score can kick Randy and his Jazz score any day of the week.

And in a related story, John Lasseter has announced that Tom Hanks will be the new voice of Mickey Mouse.

And one voice from every Disney animated feature will be redubbed by John Ratzenberger.

Not a Randy Newman fan. Love Alan Menken's work, listening to his Home on the Range just now which is so much better than the movie (which wasn't totally bad). And Hunchback is brilliant. While I'm willing to wait for the movie, it's the premise, that beauty turns ugly, that turns me off.

..Uh, yyyy-you don't even KNOW what TFP is about, do you?

Frankly neither do I, until we get a few early sneak shots--But if it's the same tale I'm thinking of (and which would probably be more interesting than that "smoochin'" one the other half is likely unimaginatively thinking of) pretty sure it's the one where:
Three brothers are sent off to make good--Two take the lazy route, while the third and youngest ends up "stuck" with rescuing the Princess of the Frogs (or is she really?).  When it comes time for the three brothers to come back home with brides, the first two grab whoever they can find, but our hero comes back with Ms. Ribit--However, seems that there's one last hurdle, namely that the brides have to compete in tests of swimming and jumping...  :)

If M&C want to reset it in N'Awleens, can't quite picture what they're thinking of, but I'm willing to be surprised--All I know is, the standard faux-Broadway "I Want" solo wouldn't quite fit it.

This has nothing to do with this article, but I wanted to share a quote from Dick Cook (http://tinyurl.com/yav3et)

__________

Cook said Disney had slipped from being the leader in the animation market before it bought Pixar because of the technologies it used and the movie subjects it choose.

"We got away from musicals, we got away from fairytales, we got away from all-audience kinds of movies," he said. "I think it showed in audiences. You know they're never wrong."

__________

I really hope Dick shares these ideas with the rest of the company. Maybe soon we will be seeing the good old Disney Musical again sometime soon. :)

PingBack from http://www.keithlango.com/wordpress/?p=428

When I read the press release about the composer switch I felt like I had been slapped in the face. I am a huge Menken fan, and I feel that in the past few years his enormous talent has been severely wasted. So when I heard the initial reports that Menken would be the composer of TFP, I was overjoyed.

I agree with everyone here who says that Randy Newman has a tendency to follow his own formula again and again, of songs that merely reflect and don't move a story along, that he has a tendency to sing-talk through many of his numbers, which can be an art in itself but not for what I think a Disney movie should constitute.

<<Okay. Now that you have a better understanding of how John actually works (I.E. That this guy will sometimes deliberately make changes in order to keep things from getting stale), >>

And using Randy Newman in an animated picture isn't stale? Especially when you're having him sing over a scene instead of putting his music and words into the character? I loved "When She Loved Me," but I thought "Our Town" sounded like a carbon copy.

Remember how the Phil Collins soundtrack for "Tarzan" was a refreshing new hit for Disney? Hmmm, now I wonder why that particular formula didn't work for "Brother Bear?" Oh, that's right, because spanning the same exact voice of a singer over into another Disney film that is supposed to be completely different in premise, flavor, etc., is what one would and should call "stale." I loved the soundtrack for "Tarzan," but the music in "Brother Bear" is what keeps me from absolutely loving that movie, because it felt so rehashed and recycled, just like the music in "Monsters, Inc."

So why does putting Alan's music into multiple films actually work time and time again, several films in a row? Because he's putting his music and the words of his lyricists into the character. His music illustrates different personalities and cultures and the best part is you don't get the same voice singing it with the same inflections and the same piano. Of course we don't know yet whether or not Randy Newman will be providing the vocals or what sort of instruments he'll be willing to team up with...but criminelly, if he ends up singing over the film I'll be severely disappointed.

There are many people out there who diss or poke fun at the Disney-musical formula and really were excited by "Atlantis" being such an adult film that lacked characters that sang, but "Atlantis" never became a magical classic, and it won't endure the decades (it didn't even endure half of one). I hate how some of the folks at Disney have taken this to heart and still don't see how the people who poke fun at the formula either don't get it, don't love the company, don't matter, or are simply too immature to accept musicals or family entertainment as a real artistic medium. Randy Newman was a good choice for the Pixar films, but he's doesn't have a Disney flair to him, especially when he provides the voice himself. I think he's a good composer but I don't think he's amazing, I'm sorry. Maybe I'll change my mind someday, who knows.

As someone already pointed out, though, the most irritating thing is that Lasseter directly overrided Ron and John in a way that wasn't necessary and smells a lot like a marketting scheme. I particularly feel sorry for Ron and John when I think about how their relationship with Randy might not be so strong and perhaps a little forced if they didn't pick him themselves. I think an audience will easily recognize the repetition when they hear Randy Newman...but you CAN dish out Menken score after Menken score and listen to the whole enchilada without feeling bored. At least from my experience.