Len: Welcome back to another addition of the Unofficial
Guide Disney Dish Podcast With Jim Hill. This is episode fifty one and to get
you guys into the holiday spirit, Jim and I are talking today about the history
of Christmas at the Disney Resorts. In order to tell that story of course, we
need the jolly old man himself. And I mean Jim Hill. How's it going Jim?
Jim: Ho ho ho.
Len: So it's early December and that means of course that we
celebrate the origins of some Scandinavian mythology that involves an old man,
a red suit, and some flying reindeer.
Jim: That we do, that we do. And,
Len: Nothing says Christmas like Disney, right?
Jim: Well, not initially. In fact, that was... I mean, think
about it. Disneyland opens July of Nineteen Fifty Five.
Len: And America's still celebrating Christmas in the
Nineteen Fifties. I totally understand that.
Jim: Yes, but at the same time, it was a much more modest
holiday. I mean,
Jim: Well, I mean, think about it. We're still outside of
the early Nineteen Sixties... The whole notion of a holiday special. I mean,
Jim: The first holiday special didn't air 'til Sixty Four.
Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. And that was part of a GE theatre show. And the
one that really sort of... That was one that sort of kicked open the door and
the very next year there was A Charlie Brown Christmas and Christmas in
American became sort of... transforming during that period. You know, you just
sort of, the sixties seventies eighties just got bigger and bigger and bigger.
But were still a relatively small holiday at that point. I mean, you can
still... If you read the magazines and watch the shows of the period there were
even people back then who were bitching about "Oh the commercialization of
Christmas." "The lights went up ten days before the..." "Can't Christmas be on
Len: I've been going through the old Newhart the original
Newhart Show and you're right. I mean, there were episodes that were two weeks
before Christmas that literally didn't even mention winter.
Len: Let alone the holiday. And we contrast that with this
year. I don't know if you saw the tv schedule but Rudolph the Red-Nosed
Reindeer showed up on television the day before Thanksgiving.
Len: There's a special place in Hell for people who schedule
that, right? (???)
Jim: But at the same time, it actually did better this year
than it did last year. I mean, the weird thing is.. whose watching this? We all
either own it on VHS or Blu-Ray at this point.
Len: Who hasn't memorized it, right?
Jim: But that's the thing. Everyone's like "Oh, gotta sit
with the family and watch Rudolph. And cry at the,"
Len: For me it's the Peanuts Christmas Special.
Jim: I don't know. It's always the last five minutes of
Rudolph that undoes me. The Island of Misfit Toys. It's like "I know he's
showing up. I know it!"
Len: Anyway, so all right, back in the Fifties, it was a
Jim: A simpler time.
Len: all right, so Disneyland opens in Fifty Five in July.
Jim: Yeah, and look, Walt knew... they knew it was a hit
over the summer months and when the kids were out of school. But again, you
gotta remember that Fall and the early winter months were huge question marks.
Especially during that first year of operation. And that coupled with the fact
that people tend to forget that when Disneyland opened up they got... it got
miserable press because of that overcrowded party where the people had printed
up the faux invitations and people climbing over the back fence and you know...
It was... Three years of Walt inviting reporters back before the reputation of
the park turned around with the media. On the other hand, with the public, they
loved the place right out of the get-go. And when you think about that
Disneyland saw its one millionth visitor on September Eighth, Fifty Five,
that's just fifty three days after the place opened.
Jim: Those are some amazingly strong attendance numbers,
again, given the poisonous press that it had had for that opening. But anyway,
you head into the Fall months and now it's like, "All right, how do we properly
staff the park? What hours should we be open?"
Len: Yeah. All this is unknown, right? Nobody's ever done an
amusement park of this scale, right? Year round.
Jim: And they were still... three years in before they
finally figured out that during Spring and Fall, what they do is they actually
close the park on Mondays and Tuesdays. From, seriously, from Nineteen Fifty
Eight to Nineteen Eighty Five, if you... that's actually, if you've seen
Vacation the movie with Chevy Chase, that's what that actually keys off of.
Len: Oh, right right. They get to Walley World and it's
Jim: Yeah. There's this great... Doug... oh man, I'm
blanking on his name but wrote for National Lampoon... But the family vacation
in Nineteen Sixty Two, that... again, ends with going to Disneyland and it's
closed for the day and ends up the dad goes to Disney's house and shoots hm in
the butt. So. It's a wonderful holiday reading folks, check it out. Anyway, so
it's Fall of Fifty Five, Walt is concerned about what's going to happen for the
holidays 'cause, again, it's... "Can we actually get people to come out during
the colder time of year?" So what he decides to do is he's going to hold a
circus. And in fact, in November Twenty-
Len: A circus.
Jim: A circus. You know, not only that... It's the Mickey
Mouse Club Circus. This was presented... if you know the layout of the park...
kind of where Small World is now. There were two giant tents. In fact, the
biggest tent- and by the way I got this information from Sam Genaway's (???)
brand new great history book of Disneyland, the Disneyland Story which
published by Keane Communications. Isn't that the company that publishes the
Len: It is in fact. What an odd coincidence.
Jim: That's startling. Anyway, this one hour long show was
personally produced by Walt Disney. Or so says Sam. To introduce the
Mouseketeers to the general public. And I know this is what Sam is saying is
true, I've seen the press release which... what cracks me up about this is that
the Mickey Mouse tv show debuted on October Third, Nineteen Fifty Five, but
here they are, November- "And we're going to introduce them to the world!" And
it's like, "I think the world already knows who Annette is." Anyway,
Len: Was a month long publicity campaign. (???) Okay, so
they're doing a circus.
Jim: A circus okay.
Len: Over by where It's a Small World is.
Jim: Yeah. Opens November Twenty Fourth, Nineteen Fifty
Five, which by the way was Thanksgiving Day. And it features acts like George
Keller and his thirty savage cats, which according to longtime Disneyland
employees that I've interviewed- it's this really sort of mangy looking group
of lions, tigers, and leopards that are so heavily drugged that the only real
danger that they pose to the public was if they fell asleep on their perch and
then fell over on Mr. Keller. But he'd bring them out there and try to get them
to stand up but. Anyway, because this
was supposed to be Disneyland's big holiday thing, they sort of shoe-horned in
a finale where it's March of the Toys. And so it's,
Len: March of the Toys.
Jim: Christmas-themed grand finale and so you've got your
Mouseketeers along with Jimmie Dodd, who,
Len: Who's Jimmie Dodd?
Jim: Jimmie Dodd was the Mouseketeer. I mean,
Len: Okay, got it.
Jim: When you see the show, he's the adult who, you know.
"See you real soon!" But he actually came out and served as the ring master for
Jim: But two shows a day. So, you know,
Jim: Yep. So anyway, he and the Mouseketeers join some
costumed Disney characters. They dance around this magical growing Christmas
tree which I guess somebody who had seen The Nutcracker had borrowed the idea
Jim: And as it ends, Santa comes in on his sleigh, all
right, and that's supposed to be the big finale of the show and at the first
performance they hadn't really rehearsed. Santa I guess ran into the center
pole of the tent and damn near brought down all of the,
Len: All the big cats are running everywhere.
Jim: It's like, "All right." So it really wasn't what they
envisioned. In fact, what threw them off from day one is that nobody came. I
mean, it had very very low attendance for the show. And it turns out it was
really more a case of pricing. In that day at Disneyland, what you did is you
paid a one dollar entrance fee,
Jim: And then you bought tickets for each individual
Len: Oh yeah.
Jim: That you went on. And in this case, it was a one dollar
fee to go in to see the circus. And a lot of parents just walked all the way
back, looked at the circus tent, and saw what the fee was and it's like, "No.
I'm not gonna do that." So the show only six weeks. It shut down January Sixth
of Fifty Six I believe.
Len: So it ran over Christmas. That was their Christmas
entertainment. The circus.
Jim: That was their Christmas entertainment. Now don't get
me wrong. They did... it wasn't the only Christmas-themed entertainment in the
park. Jim Korkis tells this great story about how the first Christmas Carolers
at the Happiest Place on Earth who turned out were twelve music students from
the University of Southern California who would dress up as Dickens characters
and wander around performing.
Len: Were they hired or they were just showing up?
Jim: Well, no, that was,
Len: (???) Day.
Jim: That was kind of the interesting aspect of this. What
they did was there was Doctor Charles Hirt, he was the director of music at
UCLA. And as it turned out he was a good close personal friend of Walt Disney
and Walt really leaned heavily on this guy during the first four or five years
when it came to- Disneyland didn't have an entertainment department at this
point. And it was like, "Ugh, it's Christmas. What am I gonna do?" And Charles
was like, "Well, let me grab some of my students." And brought twelve of them down
and they raided the costume department at the studio and so they had these
Dickens Christmas Carolers working the park but... this was also during the
period where they couldn't quite decide what to do with the bandstand for
Disneyland. I mean, it used to be,
Jim: Down at City Hall Plaza and in fact what they found is
it blocked the view of the Castle as people entered the park. So they then, for
a while they moved it all the way out to basically the corner of Frontierland
and Adventureland. So...
Len: Sure, bandstand haha. What the British would have done
when they were colonizing Africa. Sure.
Jim: But this is the thing that I particularly enjoy about
it. Especially when you understand that this is the year that they've launched
Jingle Cruise at both Disneyland and Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom. It's
like, but even back then, people were riding the Jungle Cruise and looking at
the lions and tigers could still hear vaguely in the distance, Silent Night.
"What's going on?" But yeah these twelve kids came out and performed and the
interesting thing is that component was so successful, by Nineteen Fifty Six
what they did is at this point they'd actually moved the bandstand back over by
the castle. In fact, it ended up pretty much in the place where the Carnation
Plaza with that new Fantasyland extension has been built.
Len: Right, right.
Jim: And they strung up some lights and then this area then
became known as the Disneyland Christmas Bowl. And you could go there and watch
the Dickens Carolers sing. They'd bring in the Disneyland band... would stand
there and perform holiday music. And they also again began bringing in local
high school groups and college choirs who also performed holiday music. And
what's kind of interesting about that- and again, this is Charles... this is
Dr. Charles Hirt who put the idea together- he noticed how the crowds were
reacting to these choirs and if he brought multiple choirs together, they'd get
even bigger crowds. And he was the guy who was like, "Why don't we do a mass
event? Why don't we do something of size and see if that works?" And Walt gave
him the go ahead.
Len: What year is this?
Jim: This is Fifty Six, Fifty Seven. And in Fifty Eight he finally gets the go ahead for
the very first Candle Light Procession. And,
Len: Nineteen Fifty Eight. That long ago?
Jim: That long ago.
Jim: We are coming up on for Disneyland... what is that,
Len: Fifty Five years.
Jim: Fifty five years! So.
Jim: So. But yeah. The first group whose... the first time
around it was sixteen choirs together moving down Main Street to the Plaza. And
what was kind of- again, would have been kind of an interesting visual- while
they're singing, the members of Hirt's Dicken's choir are actually standing on
Sleeping Beauty Castle up on the balcony they're performing.
Len: I thought you were going to say the parade is coming
the other way 'cause that would have been equally interesting but okay. Your
thing (???). All right, go ahead.
Jim: But you know, just they were trying.
Jim: They really were trying. But, it just... Every year was
sort of like... 'Cause nobody had ever done this.
Jim: It's like "What are we going to do next?" And in regard
to the Christmas Parade which is now a Disneyland tradition... That really...
If you're hung up on details, yes, there was a parade in Fifty-Five, but it was
a circus parade. And yeah,
Len: A circus parade with Santa Claus.
Jim: That's it exactly. Just sort of tacked on. It wasn't...
the really first holiday parade at the park didn't happen 'til Fifty Five and
even then it was one of these things where it's "Christmas in Many Lands!" I
mean, there's a name that's just says magic, doesn't it, Len?
Len: Wait what year?
Jim: This is December Fifty Seven.
Len: Christmas in Many Lands.
Jim: Christmas in Many Lands. And again, why it was called
Christmas in Many Lands was that Disneyland would reach out to the Sons of
Len: In Los Angeles. The Los Angeles Branch of the Sons of
Norway. Okay, all right.
Jim: That's it exactly. Or like... The deal was, "Look, come
to Disneyland, march in our parade, perform a Christmas song, and we'll give
you free admission to the park and free tickets." And that's how they padded
out their parades. It's just, all these, "Well sure, I'll come and perform at
Disneyland. Sure, I'll march in the parade." But yeah, it's just, because
again, you had this fledging entertainment department that really didn't know what
Len: So what were the Many Lands that were celebrating
Christmas? Are we talking about like Wisconsin or what?
Jim: That's right. "Cheese, holiday cheese, Gromit!" No,
I've seen a listing of this and what's kind of interesting is that if you want
a real sense of how this was done, go on Youtube. Right now there is actually
the grand opening of the Matterhorn.
Jim: Television special from Nineteen Fifty Nine. And they
have an opening special and basically all the groups that are marching in this
parade are the very same groups that have been tapped for Christmas of Fifty
Eight. So it's like uugh, there's just, you know, Swiss bell ringers and some
Norwegian dance troupes and... it's this fascinating mix of cultures that...
again, you have to understand that Disneyland at that point, there was no place
on the Earth entertainment-wise that was hotter. And if somebody said "Hey, you
wanna come perform at Disneyland?" and "We'll give you tickets to the
attractions to enjoy afterwards."
Len: Oh my God, you're right. It is.
Len: I'm looking at the Youtube video.
Jim: Yeah. But seriously, you have to go check this out,
folks. It just... You can watch the parade and get a sense of... And more to
the point, Len, look at how homemade... This is not... these aren't,
Len: Yeah, this looks like stuff you and I could do with a
quick trip to Michael's and a thousand dollars.
Jim: That's it exactly.
Len: That's some interesting... it looks like the floats are
built on baby carriage... Wow that's interesting. Huh, how about that.
Jim: Pretty much. So, but now to, also to give you some idea
of the progression of Christmas at Disneyland... Starting in Fifty Eight was
the first time you started to see significant decorating in the park. I mean,
not just individual wreaths on doors and things like that. This is the first
time they strung garland across the street with lights on Main Street USA. But
again, Walt was kind of a stickler about Christmas. He was one of these guys
who really wanted to celebrate Christmas around Christmas so,
Len: Yeah yeah.
Jim: Decorations went up two weeks before December Twenty
Fifth and came down on January Second. Just as long as Walt was calling the
shots, that's what happened. So. Meanwhile, in regard to the official
Len: There's a Disneyland tree?
Jim: Yeah. That started... Town Square... I wanna say Fifty
Six, Fifty Seven. It was definitely there by Fifty Eight. And at this point
it's twenty feet tall but again, it's one of these things where it's like...
There's not a design shop that's making individual ornaments. They gone out
locally and just bought boxes of ornaments and hung them up on the tree. But
the other thing and what's kind of interesting is you do Goggle or do some investigation
of Disneyland Christmas Nineteen Fifties Nineteen Sixties,
Len: Oh, so real quick, the reference video you want is
titled on Youtube is Holiday Time at Disneyland
Nineteen Sixty Two.
Jim: There we go. There we go.
Len: Forty five minutes. It's actually a, so I guess they
did a World of Color,
Jim: Yeah, actually there are two of them. In fact, another
one folks want to reference is... I think it's called Holiday Time at
Disneyland. In fact, what's kind of ironic about that one- oh no, the... what
is it... Seasons?
Len: No, Holiday Time at Disneyland in Nineteen Sixty Two,
Jim: But there's actually another one in Sixty Six, Len. I
think it's called Seasons- ah! Disneyland Around the Seasons Nineteen Sixty
Six. And in fact, what's kind of ironic about that one is, again, Sixty Six,
this is Walt,
Len: Oh, you're right. Sixty Six.
Jim: Just before he passed away but that- we'll get to that
one in a little bit here.
Jim: Anyway, so we have our Christmas trees... in fact, if
you want to get a sense of what Disneyland looked like- in fact, I can't
recommend this enough, the next time you're actually out at the Disneyland
Resort. Go over to the Disneyland Hotel. In fact, what you want to do is take
the escalator next to Goofy's Kitchen, go upstairs and there's a series of
function rooms up in that area but outs- so, then- and be good! Don't wander in
any of these meetings and that sort of thing. But outside in the hallway are
these amazing pieces of concept art that have just. You know, these giant
canvases of early Matterhorn, early Big Thunder Mountain. But one of the
paintings there is an early concept of what the Disneyland Castle would look
like at Christmas.
Jim: And they have- but again, it's a very Nineteen, late
Nineteen Fifties early Nineteen Sixties. So these are white metallic Christmas
trees stuck in the middle of the lagoon.
Len: That's the way God intended. God intended Christmas
trees to be aluminum, Jim. As an owner of a mid-century modern house, let me
tell you how Christmas trees should look.
Jim: Well there you go. But picture them stuck in the middle
of Lagoon, all right. With lights that would rotate from pink to,
Len: Color wheel. I think that's absolutely perfect.
Jim: Well, I am glad to hear that 'cause that's what it was
like and they have this beautiful painting up there on that,
Len: It's Southern California.
Jim: There you go. But speaking of giant light up Christmas
trees, we have to talk about the Matterhorn. Which, again, opened in July of
Fifty Nine and by Nineteen Sixty One or thereabouts... What Disneyland used to
do to celebrate the holiday season is they'd bring a giant crane in,
Len: Uh huh.
Jim: And hoist at the top of the Matterhorn a twenty foot
tall rotating Christmas star. That lit up at night.
Jim: In fact, again, if you want to Goggle this and do
"Matterhorn Christmas Star," there is one of the most horrifying photographs in
the history of man. Basically it's a black and white photograph of the star being
winched into place at the top of the Matterhorn and Santa is standing at the
top of the Matterhorn sort of waving it in. But if you look closely at the
photograph, Santa is standing at the top of the most rickety wooden ladder
you've ever seen in your entire life. So it's just sort of like,
Len: Oh, I'm seeing it. My toes are curling. Oh dear God!
Wow, you can see the orange groves.
Jim: Yeah! Again, this is gives you some idea of what
Anaheim was like back then. But think about it, it's this guy is,
Len: He's literally standing on a ladder. On the top of the
Jim: That's right, that's right. So the photos that followed
this of Santa tumbling to his death,
Len: "Santa's just sleeping, kids!"
Jim: But again, I'm thinking this was probably done on a
Monday or Tuesday, so. So anyway, but what's really cool about this is they put
the star into place and then what they do on the nights around Christmas is-
again, you've got this giant lit up star but they're throwing green spotlights
on the Matterhorn. So in effect, the Matterhorn,
Jim: Has become Orange County's Christmas tree for the, in
Jim: So if you talk to a lot of baby boomers from that
period, they will tell you memories of being in the back of the family station
wagon zooming along the Five and there's this giant Christmas tree at
Disneyland. So. But yeah, it's just that,
Jim: Again, just lots of... What do you think about it,
compared to what they do today, that was low tech but sounds charming. You
know, just sort of like how cool that must have been. But, all right, anyway.
We're jumping ahead into the Sixties here,
Len: All right.
Jim: And we have to go back to Christmas of Many Lands for a
little bit 'cause we took a a really interesting turn in December of Sixty One.
This was the year that Disney's version of Babes in Toyland opened in theaters.
And as a really kind of clever, you know, bit of stop motion (???) coupled with
the fact that these things are just sitting around a warehouse or the studio.
We gotta do something with them. Walt had all the oversized toys that had been
built for Tom Tom's battle with Barnaby,
Jim: He had them folded into that year's parade and,
Jim: While this Annette Funicello and Tommy Sands movie
wasn't the hit that Walt was hoping for, the oversized toys sure were. Which is
why Walt turned to Bill Justice who along with X Atencio, another Disney
legend... these are the guys who did the stop motion sequence in that movie,
who designed a lot of the toys and then hand animated it. And Walt turned to
Bill and said that, "Is there a way we could create a walking... a version of
that Tin Solider costume that people could wear and walk around the park in?"
And so Bill created that for the Sixty Two version of the parade which was such
a hit. Walt just turns around and just tells Bill, "You're it. You're the guy
who designs the parades. You're the guy who designs the walk around costumes
for the park now." And his... the full size version of his parade, which,
again, if you watch that tv special on Youtube that Len and I were just talking
about... Disneyland Around the Seasons. They have the full Nineteen Sixty Four
Fantasy on Parade parade which features all of Bill's weird character costumes.
You've got things like- stuff you've never be able to get away with at
Disneyland today. For example, there's a two person camel that walks through
the park but it's also led by the most offensive creation of a person from the
Middle East you could possibly imagine.
Jim: You know.
Len: Oh God.
Jim: It's again, just, our Nineteen Sixties take on how to
do these sorts of things. The other thing that premiered with this parade is
the silly reindeer that people used to love so much about the Disneyland parade
that got replaced recently by I guess more anatomically correct reindeer. Oh,
before we step away from Babes in Toyland we have to- I gotta tell one of my
favorite stories about history of the park. You gotta understand that the Main
Street Opera House, now the home of the Walt Disney Story and the Great Moments
With Mr. Lincoln,
Jim: Wasn't open to the public from July Fifty Five to
November Sixty One. Mostly because this was actually the park's carpenter shop.
If anything that was built at Disneyland... If you... wooden railings for the
Golden Horse Review or the stairs, anything got built there.
Jim: Yep. So anyway, what with Babes in Toyland being the
most expensive movie that the studio had produced up until that time... It's a
budget busting three million dollars Len. Oh my!
Len: Haha, three million dollars.
Jim: Yes. That's pretty much the Danish budget for My Magic
Express. But we'll get back to that. "You want coffee?" Anyway, Walt was
determined to make the most of what he'd spent so- and since the props... they
had an exhibit over in Tomorowland that had literally been thrown into that
part of the park at the last minute. In Fifty Five... basically props and
costumes were Twenty Thousand Leagues and they even brought the rubber squid
Jim: And that was this huge hit. And so Walt's like, "Well,
that worked." And we got this empty building so it's like, "We're gonna send
the sets from Babes in Toyland over to Disneyland and set them up." And now I
know at the Disney parks now when you look at something like The Legend of Jack
Sparrow or this sort of thing of bringing movie props in for people or sets to
walk through is kind of a cliché but this was really different. Something
interesting in Sixty One. And what was kind of ironic is that when the movie
opened in December 14th Sixty One, it really was not well received.
In fact, a lot of the critics complained that it looked like Walt had shot it
at Disneyland. You know, just this sort of really sugary mess. Anyway, the
reason I bring this up is that they basically broke up into three lands and if you've seen the movie, they did... one
room was Mother Gooseland and the end was the
Toy Factory in Toyland. But in the middle was the Forest of No Return.
Len: The Forest of No Return.
Jim: Have you ever seen this movie, Len?
Jim: Oh, you have to at least for this number because they
have these giant rubber trees that... these really menacing awful looking
rubber trees that sing and dance the Forest of No Return song.
Len: It sounds scary.
Jim: It is, all right. But what was great about this room is
that they brought six of these costumes in.
Jim: But what the kids didn't realize is, so you walk in and
you look at the cat (???) costumes and there's a cast member in one of them. So
you wait for the children to walk in the room and sort of eyeball things, wait
'til they turn their back, and then the tree steps off the platform and goes
after the child. And it was like, evidently they began selling,
Jim: There we go. Just because of the number of children who
were frightened by the walking tree. But that was one open from December
Seventeenth, Sixty One through September Thirtieth of Sixty Three. At that
point, sort of as a place holder, the Mickey Mouse Club had sort of a place
where you could go and sign up for the club or see memorabilia and that sort of
thing 'til July of Sixty Four. And then they shut it down and then it becomes
home for Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln. But anyway, it just... But during this
period Disneyland really is coming into its own when it comes to the holidays.
They've got a design package in place for virtually every part of the park. In
fact, one of the cleverest ideas is you'd come up to the Hub and here's the
house of the future. Again,
Jim: Big plastic house. Only to make it look like it's
Christmas time, they had a giant ten foot red bow on the top and huge ribbons
that ran down the side. And they had started putting garlands around other
parts of the park. You know, up at Golden Horseshoe and all that. It was
really... You know, going to Disneyland really, at the holidays, really became
something to do. And people were so looking forward to what was going to happen
next. When it's suddenly December of Sixty Six and we lose Walt Disney. And
this is, it was a very strange holiday season because obviously people turned
out but you had a lot of employees who were still trying to wrap their heads
around what happens to a Walt Disney productions, a Walt Disney company when
there is no Walt Disney.
Jim: That's a story we'll get to in part two of our
Christmas at the Disney theme parks.
Len: That's right, we're only through about ten years of our
fifty year journey.
Jim: Yep. So okay, go get some Christmas cookies folks. This
is gonna take a while.
Len: That's fantastic Jim, I'm looking forward to the
episodes. All right, for Jim Hill, this is Len Testa. You've been listening to
part one of our Christmas special about Walt Disney and Disneyland Christmas.
Please rate us on Itunes and let us know what else you'd like us to talk about,
especially as the new year starts. Jim and I are looking for more adventures in
2014. For Jim this is Len. You've been listening to the Unofficial Guide Disney
Dish Podcast With Jim Hill. Thanks for listening and we'll see you on the next
Jim: Happy holidays, folks.