Theme Parks & Themed Entertainment
Don’t expect any big changes with “Big Thunder”
The Web’s awash in rumors of the permanent closing of this Disneyland thrill ride. Jim Hill sets the record straight as to why the “Wildest Ride in the Wilderness” will continue to roll on in Anaheim for many years to come.
![](https://jimhillmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/jim-hill-media-featured-1200x675-1.png)
I know this is going to seem somewhat hypocritical (not to mention bizarre) for a webmaster to say something like this … But — you know — you can’t believe everything that you read on the Internet.
Take — for example — the rumors that are currently flying around the Web about the ultimate fate of Disneyland’s “Big Thunder Mountain” attraction. Were you to believe some of the stories that have been popping up on various Disneyana discussion boards, it would seem like the Walt Disney Company is getting ready to send a wrecking crew out to Anaheim tonight. And that these burly guys will soon be tearing down “Big Thunder Mountain” to make way for a brand new Frontierland ride. Something that (no doubt) moves very slowly and probably involves pillows.
Well, after calling a few folks fairly high up in the Mouse House food chain, let me state for the record that Disneyland’s “Big Thunder Mountain” ain’t going anywhere. That — following a two or three week long investigation — this Frontierland attraction will reopen for business later this summer. And that — God willing — the “Wildest Ride in the Wilderness” will probably run for many decades yet to come.
How do I know this? I can give you three very good reasons: The “Big Thunder Mountain” attraction at Walt Disney World’s Magic Kingdom, the “Big Thunder Mountain” attraction at Tokyo Disneyland and the “Big Thunder Mountain” attraction at Disneyland – Paris.
To put it bluntly here, folks: “Big Thunder Mountain” is a franchise for the Mouse. A pretty popular (And — more importantly — profitable) one at that. And — were the Walt Disney Company to ever permanently close this Disneyland thrill ride for “safety reasons” — that would put the “unsafe” taint on all of the other “Big Thunder” attractions operating around the globe. And Disney’s financial partners (I.E. The Oriental Land Company and EuroDisney SCA) just wouldn’t stand for that.
So Disney’s going to do its damnedest to try & quickly find out why this Frontierland attraction has had such a run of bad luck lately. (Though — from what I’ve been told — both last Thursday’s incident as well as March’s unfortunate collision between two empty trains appear to be a case of pure operator error. As in: The cast members who were manning Disneyland’s “Big Thunder” seem to have lost track of where the trains actually were in the station area. Which is what ultimately caused these two unfortunate incidents.) Then — after the current investigation’s complete — look for the Walt Disney Company to mount a huge PR campaign to try & convince the public that “Big Thunder” is once again safe to ride.
Of course, when this happens, look for Disney’s PR flacks to issue a statement saying that brand new safeguards & procedures have been put into place which virtually guarantees that something like this will never happen again. Which will only make longtime Disneyland employees laugh …
“Why would longtime Disneyland employees laugh about something like that?,” you ask. Here, let me let you in one of the Anaheim theme park’s deep dark little secrets. This trains-bumping-into-one-another-in-the-station-area thing? It’s been going on for years.
Mind you, we’re not talking about horrific accidents like last September’s crash which claimed the life of poor Marcelo Torres. Or even unfortunate incidents like what happened back in March of 1998 when 5-year-old David Fackler got his foot crushed as the train he was riding rolled into the attraction’s offload area. Which resulted in this little boy losing several toes.
No, I’m talking about your garden variety scuffs & bumps. When someone at the “Big Thunder Mountain” operating console accidentally misjudges the distance between trains in the loading/unloading area and/or isn’t paying attention for a few seconds and forgets to switch the track over as they’re bringing a trainload of guests into the station.
Said one Disneyland vet (who — for obvious reasons — asked not to be identified):
Since this attraction first opened back in 1979, we’ve probably had at least one incident like this for every year “Big Thunder” ‘s been in operation. Where trains would bump into one another in the load/offload area. Or a train would come to a sudden stop while the ride was in motion, giving everyone on board a nasty scare as well as some bumps & bruises.
Of course, this was before the state was paying such close attention to theme park safety problems. More importantly, this was back in the day when Disney actually had a reputation for keeping its guests safe, treating its customers right.
So — when something like this would happen — Disneyland’s managers would rush on over to Frontierland, armed with pocketloads of free passes to the park, free meal coupons, even vouchers for several nights stay at the Disneyland Hotel. And then — after apologizing profusely to all the agitated guests and then offering to refund everyone’s admission price to the park that day — they’d then begin handing out all those free tickets & food vouchers. Usually, that was enough to do the trick. Which is why incidents like this never ever made into the papers.
Of course, there were always those people who couldn’t be bought off with free Disneyland passes or food coupons. They’d hold their necks, cry “whiplash” and threaten to sic their attorneys on us. All we’d ask them to do — before they talked with reporters — was to have their lawyers call Disney’s legal department. That’s when we’d typically offer a cash settlement if they’d agree to keep quiet. All those nondisclosure forms really helped keep the company’s reputation for guest safety intact.
Mind you, this was back in the ’70s, ’80s, even early ’90s. Before people got jaded and greedy. Nowadays everyone wants their turn in the spotlight. So — when something like this happens — they’re quick to contact the press.
And — in the age of mobile phones & the Internet — it’s obviously a whole harder to sweep these sorts of things under the rug. Not that we don’t still try, mind you. But after Marcelo Torres’ death, “Big Thunder” is obviously on everyone’s radar. So whenever anyone so much as gets a paper cut while riding this attraction, we’ve got news copters flying over Frontierland.
So — sure — Disney will undoubtedly spend the next few weeks cooperating with DOSH. Doing everything they can to help speed along this investigation. I’d even anticipate that the company will OK making some pretty sweeping changes to the station area this time around. Doing everything they can to help improve sightlines for the operator, so that it’s that much easier for cast members to keep track of where the trains actually are once they finish their run and enter the station area.
But will this new set of precautions actually prevent accidents from ever happening again on Disneyland’s “Big Thunder Mountain” ride? I doubt it.
If this ride’s historic pattern holds, we’re still going to see more incidents like what happened back in March, what happened last week. Relatively minor incidents. But — as for what happened to that poor Torres kid and little David Fackler — hopefully we’ve seen the end of that sort of accident.
But let’s face facts, Jim: “Big Thunder Mountain” is a piece of very heavy, extremely complicated equipment operated by humans. And humans make mistakes. You can put all the safeguards you want in place, but humans still make mistakes.
So — yes — I think that Disneyland’s “Big Thunder Mountain” is going to have more of these trains-bumping-in-the-station-area incidents in the future. I just hope that — once we get this ride reopened later this summer — that we don’t have another incident like this for another couple of years.
“Big Thunder Mountain” needs to be an accident-free zone for the next couple of years. Otherwise, people will always refer to it as the ride that that guy died on. The Disneyland attraction where the trains keep crashing into one another. And — in order for Disneyland to continue to be thought of as a safe & friendly place to take a family — we really can’t afford to have any more incidents like this.
So there you have it, folks. These bumping-in-the-station-area incidents HAVE happened before with Disneyland’s “Big Thunder Mountain” ride. Perhaps dozens of times over the past 25 years. But — because Disney’s usually been able to play these incidents down, keep stories of these accidents out of the press — we’ve never really heard about them … Til now.
Which brings up an interesting question: Have any of you JHM readers ever been involved in something like this at a Disney theme park? Where a ride or attraction malfunctioned on you? Which resulted in Disney reps swarming all over you? Offering you theme park tickets, meal coupons or even hotel vouchers? If you just agreed to forget about the incident?
Inquiring minds wanna know.
Your thoughts?
Theme Parks & Themed Entertainment
The Story of Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party: From One Night to a Halloween Family Tradition
![](https://jimhillmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/boo-to-you-halloween-parade.jpg)
The spooky season is already in full swing at Disney parks on both coasts. On August 9th, the first of 38 Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party (MNSSHP) nights for 2024 kicked off at Florida’s Magic Kingdom. Meanwhile, over at Disney California Adventure, the Oogie Boogie Bash began on August 23rd and is completely sold out across its 27 dates this year.
Looking back, it’s incredible to think about how these Halloween-themed events have grown. But for Disney, the idea of charging guests for Halloween fun wasn’t always a given. In fact, when the very first Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party debuted on October 31, 1995, it was a modest one-night-only affair. Compare that to the near month-long festivities we see today, and it’s clear that Disney’s approach to Halloween has evolved considerably.
A Not-So-Scary Beginning
I was fortunate enough to attend that very first MNSSHP back in 1995, along with my then 18-month-old daughter Alice and her mom, Michelle. Tickets were a mere $16.95 (I know, can you imagine?), and we pushed Alice around in her sturdy Emmaljunga stroller—Swedish-built and about the size of a small car. Cast Members, charmed by her cuteness, absolutely loaded us up with candy. By the end of the night, we had about 30 pounds of fun-sized candy bars, making that push up to the monorail a bit more challenging.
![Mickey’s Halloween Treat 1996 – Photo: Disney](https://jimhillmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/mickeys-treat-halloween-1024x576.jpg)
This Halloween event was Disney’s response to the growing popularity of Universal Studios Florida’s own Halloween hard ticket event, which started in 1991 as “Fright Nights” before being rebranded as “Halloween Horror Nights” the following year. Universal’s gamble on a horror-themed experience helped salvage what had been a shaky opening for their park, and by 1993, Halloween Horror Nights was a seven-night event, with ticket prices climbing as high as $35. Universal had stumbled upon a goldmine, and Disney took notice.
A Different Approach
Now, here’s where Disney’s unique strategy comes into play. While Universal embraced the gory, scare-filled world of horror, Disney knew that wasn’t their brand. Instead of competing directly with blood and jump-scares, Disney leaned into what they did best: creating magical, family-friendly experiences.
Thus, Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party was born. The focus was on fun and whimsy, not fear. Families could bring their small children without worrying about them being terrified by a chainsaw-wielding maniac around the next corner. This event wasn’t just a Halloween party—it was an extension of the Disney magic that guests had come to expect from the parks.
Disney had some experience with seasonal after-hours events, most notably Mickey’s Very Merry Christmas Party, which had started in 1983. But the Halloween party was different, as the Magic Kingdom wasn’t yet decked out in Halloween decor the way it is today. Disney had to create a spooky (but not too spooky) atmosphere using temporary props, fog machines, and, of course, lots of candy.
A key addition to that first event? The debut of the Headless Horseman, who made his eerie appearance in Liberty Square, riding a massive black Percheron. It wasn’t as elaborate as the Boo-to-You Parade we see today, but it marked the beginning of a beloved Disney Halloween tradition.
A Modest Start but a Big Future
That first MNSSHP in 1995 was seen as a trial run. As Disney World spokesman Greg Albrecht told the Orlando Sentinel, “If it’s successful, we’ll do it again.” And while attendance was sparse that night, there was clearly potential. By 1997, the event expanded to two nights, and by 1999, Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party had grown into a multi-night celebration with a full-fledged parade. Today, in 2024, it’s a staple of the fall season at Walt Disney World, offering 38 nights of trick-or-treating, character meet-and-greets, and special entertainment.
Universal’s Influence
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It’s interesting to reflect on how Disney’s Halloween event might never have existed without the competition from Universal. Just as “The Wizarding World of Harry Potter” forced Disney to step up their game with “Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge,” Universal’s success with Halloween Horror Nights likely spurred Disney into action with MNSSHP. The friendly rivalry between the two parks has continually pushed both to offer more to their guests, and we’re all better off because of it.
So the next time you find yourself trick-or-treating through the Magic Kingdom, watching the Headless Horseman gallop by, or marveling at the seasonal fireworks, take a moment to appreciate how this delightful tradition came to be—all thanks to a little competition and Disney’s commitment to creating not-so-scary magic.
For more Disney history and behind-the-scenes stories, check out the latest episodes of the I Want That Too podcast on the Jim Hill Media network.
History
The Evolution and History of Mickey’s ToonTown
![](https://jimhillmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/toontown-disneyland.jpg)
Disneyland in Anaheim, California, holds a special place in the hearts of Disney fans worldwide, I mean heck, it’s where the magic began after all. Over the years it’s become a place that people visit in search of memorable experiences. One fan favorite area of the park is Mickey’s Toontown, a unique land that lets guests step right into the colorful, “Toony” world of Disney animation. With the recent reimagining of the land and the introduction of Micky and Minnies Runaway Railway, have you ever wondered how this land came to be?
There is a fascinating backstory of how Mickey’s Toontown came into existence. It’s a tale of strategic vision, the influence of Disney executives, and a commitment to meeting the needs of Disney’s valued guests.
The Beginning: Mickey’s Birthdayland
The story of Mickey’s Toontown starts with Mickey’s Birthdayland at Walt Disney World’s Magic Kingdom. Opened in 1988 to celebrate Mickey Mouse’s 60th birthday, this temporary attraction was met with such overwhelming popularity that it inspired Disney executives to think bigger. The idea was to create a permanent, immersive land where guests could step into the animated world of Mickey Mouse and his friends.
In the early ’90s, Disneyland was in need of a refresh. Michael Eisner, the visionary leader of The Walt Disney Company at the time, had an audacious idea: create a brand-new land in Disneyland that would celebrate Disney characters in a whole new way. This was the birth of Mickey’s Toontown.
Initially, Disney’s creative minds toyed with various concepts, including the idea of crafting a 100-Acre Woods or a land inspired by the Muppets. However, the turning point came when they considered the success of “Who Framed Roger Rabbit.” This film’s popularity and the desire to capitalize on contemporary trends set the stage for Toontown’s creation.
From Concept to Reality: The Birth of Toontown
In 1993, Mickey’s Toontown opened its gates at Disneyland, marking the first time in Disney Park history where guests could experience a fully realized, three-dimensional world of animation. This new land was not just a collection of attractions but a living, breathing community where Disney characters “lived,” worked, and played.
Building Challenges: Innovative Solutions
The design of Mickey’s Toontown broke new ground in theme park aesthetics. Imagineers were tasked with bringing the two-dimensional world of cartoons into a three-dimensional space. This led to the creation of over 2000 custom-built props and structures that embodied the ‘squash and stretch’ principle of animation, giving Toontown its distinctiveness.
And then there was also the challenge of hiding the Team Disney Anaheim building, which bore a striking resemblance to a giant hotdog. The Imagineers had to think creatively, using balloon tests and imaginative landscaping to seamlessly integrate Toontown into the larger park.
![](https://jimhillmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/building-toontown-1024x576.jpg)
Key Attractions: Bringing Animation to Life
Mickey’s Toontown featured several groundbreaking attractions. “Roger Rabbit’s Car Toon Spin,” inspired by the movie “Who Framed Roger Rabbit,” became a staple of Toontown, offering an innovative ride experience. Gadget’s Go-Coaster, though initially conceived as a Rescue Rangers-themed ride, became a hit with younger visitors, proving that innovative design could create memorable experiences for all ages.
Another crown jewel of Toontown is Mickey’s House, a walkthrough attraction that allowed guests to explore the home of Mickey Mouse himself. This attraction was more than just a house; it was a carefully crafted piece of Disney lore. The house was designed in the American Craftsman style, reflecting the era when Mickey would have theoretically purchased his first home in Hollywood. The attention to detail was meticulous, with over 2000 hand-crafted, custom-built props, ensuring that every corner of the house was brimming with character and charm. Interestingly, the design of Mickey’s House was inspired by a real home in Wichita Falls, making it a unique blend of real-world inspiration and Disney magic.
Mickey’s House also showcased Disney’s commitment to creating interactive and engaging experiences. Guests could make themselves at home, sitting in Mickey’s chair, listening to the radio, and exploring the many mementos and references to Mickey’s animated adventures throughout the years. This approach to attraction design – where storytelling and interactivity merged seamlessly – was a defining characteristic of ToonTown’s success.
![](https://jimhillmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/gadget-go-coaster-1024x576.jpg)
Executive Decisions: Shaping ToonTown’s Unique Attractions
The development of Mickey’s Toontown wasn’t just about creative imagination; it was significantly influenced by strategic decisions from Disney executives. One notable input came from Jeffrey Katzenberg, who suggested incorporating a Rescue Rangers-themed ride. This idea was a reflection of the broader Disney strategy to integrate popular contemporary characters and themes into the park, ensuring that the attractions remained relevant and engaging for visitors.
In addition to Katzenberg’s influence, Frank Wells, the then-President of The Walt Disney Company, played a key role in the strategic launch of Toontown’s attractions. His decision to delay the opening of “Roger Rabbit’s Car Toon Spin” until a year after Toontown’s debut was a calculated move. It was designed to maintain public interest in the park by offering new experiences over time, thereby giving guests more reasons to return to Disneyland.
These executive decisions highlight the careful planning and foresight that went into making Toontown a dynamic and continuously appealing part of Disneyland. By integrating current trends and strategically planning the rollout of attractions, Disney executives ensured that Toontown would not only capture the hearts of visitors upon its opening but would continue to draw them back for new experiences in the years to follow.
Global Influence: Toontown’s Worldwide Appeal
The concept of Mickey’s Toontown resonated so strongly that it was replicated at Tokyo Disneyland and influenced elements in Disneyland Paris and Hong Kong Disneyland. Each park’s version of Toontown maintained the core essence of the original while adapting to its cultural and logistical environment.
Evolution and Reimagining: Toontown Today
As we approach the present day, Mickey’s Toontown has recently undergone a significant reimagining to welcome “Mickey & Minnie’s Runaway Railway” in 2023. This refurbishment aimed to enhance the land’s interactivity and appeal to a new generation of Disney fans, all while retaining the charm that has made ToonTown a beloved destination for nearly three decades.
![](https://jimhillmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/dinseyland-imagineer-team-1024x576.jpg)
Dive Deeper into ToonTown’s Story
Want to know more about Mickey’s Toontown and hear some fascinating behind-the-scenes stories, then check out the latest episode of Disney Unpacked on Patreon @JimHillMedia. In this episode, the main Imagineer who worked on the Toontown project shares lots of interesting stories and details that you can’t find anywhere else. It’s full of great information and fun facts, so be sure to give it a listen!
History
Unpacking the History of the Pixar Place Hotel
![](https://jimhillmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Disney-Unpacked-YouTube-Thumbnail.jpg)
Pixar Place Hotel, the newly unveiled 15-story tower at the Disneyland Resort, has been making waves in the Disney community. With its unique Pixar-themed design, it promises to be a favorite among visitors.
However, before we delve into this exciting addition to the Disneyland Resort, let’s take a look at the fascinating history of this remarkable hotel.
The Emergence of the Disneyland Hotel
To truly appreciate the story of the Pixar Place Hotel, we must turn back the clock to the early days of Disneyland. While Walt Disney had the visionary ideas and funding to create the iconic theme park, he faced a challenge when it came to providing accommodations for the park’s visitors. This is where his friend Jack Wrather enters the picture.
Jack Wrather, a fellow pioneer in the television industry, stepped in to assist Walt Disney in realizing his dream. Thanks to the success of the “Lassie” TV show produced by Wrather’s company, he had the financial means to build a hotel right across from Disneyland.
The result was the Disneyland Hotel, which opened its doors in October 1955. Interestingly, the early incarnation of this hotel had more of a motel feel than a hotel, with two-story buildings reminiscent of the roadside motels popular during the 1950s. The initial Disneyland Hotel consisted of modest structures that catered to visitors looking for affordable lodging close to the park. While the rooms were basic, it marked the beginning of something extraordinary.
The Evolution: From Emerald of Anaheim to Paradise Pier
As Disneyland’s popularity continued to soar, so did the demand for expansion and improved accommodations. In 1962, the addition of an 11-story tower transformed the Disneyland Hotel, marking a significant transition from a motel to a full-fledged hotel.
The addition of the 11-story tower elevated the Disneyland Hotel into a more prominent presence on the Anaheim skyline. At the time, it was the tallest structure in all of Orange County. The hotel’s prime location across from Disneyland made it an ideal choice for visitors. With the introduction of the monorail linking the park and the hotel, accessibility became even more convenient. Unique features like the Japanese-themed reflecting pools added to the hotel’s charm, reflecting a cultural influence that extended beyond Disney’s borders.
Japanese Tourism and Its Impact
During the 1960s and 1970s, Disneyland was attracting visitors from all corners of the world, including Japan. A significant number of Japanese tourists flocked to Anaheim to experience Walt Disney’s creation. To cater to this growing market, it wasn’t just the Disneyland Hotel that aimed to capture the attention of Japanese tourists. The Japanese Village in Buena Park, inspired by a similar attraction in Nara, Japan, was another significant spot.
These attractions sought to provide a taste of Japanese culture and hospitality, showcasing elements like tea ceremonies and beautiful ponds with rare carp and black swans. However, the Japanese Village closed its doors in 1975, likely due to the highly competitive nature of the Southern California tourist market.
The Emergence of the Emerald of Anaheim
With the surge in Japanese tourism, an opportunity arose—the construction of the Emerald of Anaheim, later known as the Disneyland Pacific Hotel. In May 1984, this 15-story hotel opened its doors.
What made the Emerald unique was its ownership. It was built not by The Walt Disney Company or the Oriental Land Company (which operated Tokyo Disneyland) but by the Tokyu Group. This group of Japanese businessmen already had a pair of hotels in Hawaii and saw potential in Anaheim’s proximity to Disneyland. Thus, they decided to embark on this new venture, specifically designed to cater to Japanese tourists looking to experience Southern California.
Financial Challenges and a Changing Landscape
The late 1980s brought about two significant financial crises in Japan—the crash of the NIKKEI stock market and the collapse of the Japanese real estate market. These crises had far-reaching effects, causing Japanese tourists to postpone or cancel their trips to the United States. As a result, reservations at the Emerald of Anaheim dwindled.
To adapt to these challenging times, the Tokyu Group merged the Emerald brand with its Pacific hotel chain, attempting to weather the storm. However, the financial turmoil took its toll on the Emerald, and changes were imminent.
The Transition to the Disneyland Pacific Hotel
In 1995, The Walt Disney Company took a significant step by purchasing the hotel formerly known as the Emerald of Anaheim for $35 million. This acquisition marked a change in the hotel’s fortunes. With Disney now in control, the hotel underwent a name change, becoming the Disneyland Pacific Hotel.
Transformation to Paradise Pier
The next phase of transformation occurred when Disney decided to rebrand the hotel as Paradise Pier Hotel. This decision aligned with Disney’s broader vision for the Disneyland Resort.
While the structural changes were limited, the hotel underwent a significant cosmetic makeover. Its exterior was painted to complement the color scheme of Paradise Pier, and wave-shaped crenellations adorned the rooftop, creating an illusion of seaside charm. This transformation was Disney’s attempt to seamlessly integrate the hotel into the Paradise Pier theme of Disney’s California Adventure Park.
Looking Beyond Paradise Pier: The Shift to Pixar Place
In 2018, Disneyland Resort rebranded Paradise Pier as Pixar Pier, a thematic area dedicated to celebrating the beloved characters and stories from Pixar Animation Studios. As a part of this transition, it became evident that the hotel formally known as the Disneyland Pacific Hotel could no longer maintain its Paradise Pier theme.
With Pixar Pier in full swing and two successful Pixar-themed hotels (Toy Story Hotels in Shanghai Disneyland and Tokyo Disneyland), Disney decided to embark on a new venture—a hotel that would celebrate the vast world of Pixar. The result is Pixar Place Hotel, a 15-story tower that embraces the characters and stories from multiple Pixar movies and shorts. This fully Pixar-themed hotel is a first of its kind in the United States.
The Future of Pixar Place and Disneyland Resort
As we look ahead to the future, the Disneyland Resort continues to evolve. The recent news of a proposed $1.9 billion expansion as part of the Disneyland Forward project indicates that the area surrounding Pixar Place is expected to see further changes. Disneyland’s rich history and innovative spirit continue to shape its destiny.
In conclusion, the history of the Pixar Place Hotel is a testament to the ever-changing landscape of Disneyland Resort. From its humble beginnings as the Disneyland Hotel to its transformation into the fully Pixar-themed Pixar Place Hotel, this establishment has undergone several iterations. As Disneyland Resort continues to grow and adapt, we can only imagine what exciting developments lie ahead for this iconic destination.
If you want to hear more stories about the History of the Pixar Place hotel, check our special edition of Disney Unpacked over on YouTube.
Stay tuned for more updates and developments as we continue to explore the fascinating world of Disney, one story at a time.
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