Film & Movies
Stage version of “Mary Poppins” draws a lot of its inspiration from … Well, drawings
Jim Hill looks back at the development of this Disney / Cameron Mackintosh production. Which is not just based on the 1964 film, but also draws its inspiration from P.L. Travers’ stories and Mary Shepard’s illustrations

When the North American National Tour of “Mary Poppins” opens in Chicago in March of 2009 …
Copyright 2007 Disney / CML. All Rights Reserved
… both Disneyana & theater fans are sure to be thrilled. After all, this road company will not only feature Ashley Brown (i.e. the actress who originated the title role in the Broadway version of this Disney / Cameron Mackintosh musical) but also Gavin Lee (i.e. the Drama Desk Award-winning actor who portrayed Bert in both the New York & London productions of “Mary Poppins”).
Gavin Lee and Ashley Brown enjoy a spot of tea in the original Broadway version
of “Mary Poppins.” Copyright 2006 Disney / CML. Photo by Joan Marcus
That said, fans of the original 1964 film …
Copyright 1964 Walt Disney Productions. All Rights Reserved
… might be a little confused by the stage version of “Mary Poppins.” Which doesn’t feature a tea party on the ceiling …
(L to R) Julie Andrews, Karen Dotrice, Matthew Garber, Ed Wynn and Dick Van
Dyke in the Academy Award-winning movie version of “Mary Poppins.”
Copyright 1964 Walt Disney Productions. All Rights Reserved
… and / or Bert & Mary “larking about” in the show’s “Jolly Holiday” number.
Copyright 1964 Walt Disney Productions. All Rights Reserved
Mind you, it’s not that Bob Crowley — “Poppins” Tony Award-winning set & costume designer — didn’t want to incorporate particularly memorable elements of that movie into this stage show. Take — for example — the smoke staircase that you see in that film.
Copyright 1964 Walt Disney Productions. All Rights Reserved
For the London production of “Mary Poppins,” Crowley actually did design a set that would have replicated that moment from the motion picture.
Copyright 2004 Disney / CML. All Rights Reserved
But in the end, this proposed setting for the stage version of “Mary Poppins” was deemed to be impractical. And given that the production team was looking to deliver a “Practically Perfect” musical here … Well, that’s why this particular element got dropped from the show.
More to the point, the creative team behind this “Mary Poppins” musical (i.e. director Richard Eyre, choreographer Matthew Bourne and librettist Julian Fellowes) weren’t out to create just some stage-bound clone of the Academy Award-winning film. They had something far more ambitious in mind.
You see, the goal here was to create an entirely new entertainment experience. Something that would merge familiar elements from the “Mary Poppins” movie with scenes & characters that had been drawn from the eight books that P.L. Travers wrote.
Which is why — if you only know Mary Poppins through the 1964 Disney film — some of the characters that you’ll see in this new stage show will be unfamiliar to you. Take — for example — Robertson Ay, that accident-prone footman who is featured prominently in this musical’s “A Spoonful of Sugar” number.
Mark Price as “Robertson Ay” in the Broadway production
of MARY POPPINS at the New Amsterdam Theatre.
Copyright 2006 Disney / CML. Photo by Joan Marcus
Though this character doesn’t appear at all in the Disney film, Ay has been a part of the “Mary Poppins” universe ever since the very first book in the series was published back in 1934. Where — on Page 2 — Travers lists his household duties as …
” … to cut the lawn and clean the knives and polish the shoes and, as Mr. Banks always said, ‘to waste his time and my money.’ “
Robertson’s other notable skill from the “Mary Poppins” book was his ability to fall asleep practically anywhere in the middle of whatever task Ay had just been assigned.
Copyright 2006 Harcourt, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Mind you, other characters featured in the stage version of “Mary Poppins” may be somewhat familiar to fans of the film. You may recall Mrs. Corry and her daughters, Annie and Fannie …
Copyright 1964 Walt Disney Productions. All Rights Reserved
… who make a very brief appearance in the opening moments of that movie. You may remember that Bert — as he’s busking in the park — makes up a comical poem about this odd-looking trio.
“Ah, Mrs. Corry. A story for you.
Your daughters was shorter than you.
But they grew.”
And that’s pretty much all you ever see of the Corry family in that motion picture.
Which is really a shame. For in the “Mary Poppins” books, Mrs. Corry and her two “great galumphing giraffes” of daughters Annie & Fannie …
Copyright 2006 Harcourt, Inc. All Rights Reserved
… are rather magical creatures. You see, these three not only run a bake shop which sells pieces of ” … gingerbread (that are) so studded with gilt stars that the shop itself seemed to be faintly lit by them,” but then …
Copyright 1981 P.L. Travers
… under cover of darkness, the Corrys — with Mary Poppins’ help — paste these very same Gingerbread Stars up into the night sky.
The creative team behind the stage version of “Mary Poppins” just loved this vignette from the book. And they labored mightily to try & find a practical way to fit the Corrys-star-pasting routine into their show. Using Mary Shepard’s original illustration, Crowley first worked up a concept drawing …
Copyright 2004 Disney / CML. All Rights Reserved
… and then even had a model made of this proposed set.
Copyright 2004 Disney / CML. All Rights Reserved
But in the end, this proposed setting for the stage version of “Mary Poppins” was also deemed to be impractical. Which is why this particular sequence was eventually dropped from the show.
But as for the Corrys themselves … At this point in the development of the show, the “Mary Poppins” production team had really grown quite fond of Annie, Fannie and their diminutive mother. Which is why it was decided that the Corrys’ sweet shop would now become the setting for “Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.”
The cast of the Broadway production of MARY POPPINS at the New Amsterdam
Theatre. Copyright 2006 Disney / CML. Photo by Joan Marcus
In the stage show, Mary, Bert, Jane and Michael suddenly find that they’re running out of conversation. Which is why they then drop by Mrs. Corry’s “Talking shop” and pick out the letters for ” … the greatest word you ever heard.”
Mind you, to reinforce the idea that Mrs. Corry’s establishment is actually a bake shop, Crowley actually designed this character’s dress so that it would resemble the sort of display rack that a baker might place cakes, cookies and pies on.
Copyright 2004 Disney / CML. All Rights Reserved
Please note that — in the above drawings — Mrs. Corry has exceptionally long fingers. That’s because — in the original P.L. Travers story — this character’s fingers were actually made of barley-sugar. Which Mrs. Corry could then snap off and hand out as treats to the children who were visiting her store.
Which — I know — is a kind of dark & weird idea. But if you’ll actually go back and re-read the original “Mary Poppins” books, you’ll find that P.L. Travers slips lots of these sorts of touches into her stories.
In fact, the creators of the stage show took one of P.L. ‘s darker ideas (i.e. The “Bad Wednesday” chapter from “Mary Poppins Comes Back,” where Jane — as she’s throwing a temper tantrum in the nursery — accidentally cracks the Royal Doulton Bowl up that’s on the mantelpiece …
Copyright 1963 P.L. Travers
… The next thing Jane knows, she’s been magically sucked into the illustration that decorates the inside of this bowl. Where the characters depicted there then take Jane to task for creating that crack) …
Copyright 1963 P.L. Travers
… as the inspiration for an entirely new number for this stage show. George Stiles & Anthony Drewe (i.e. the song-writing team that Disney & Cameron Mackintosh hired to supplement the Sherman Bros. Academy Award-winning score) used “Bad Wednesday” as their jumping-off point when they created “Temper Temper.” Which shows what can happen to bad little children who mistreat their toys.
Copyright 2006 Disney / CML. Photo by Joan Marcus
Speaking of those dark moments that you’ll sometimes find in the original “Mary Poppins” books … To add a bit of conflict & tension to the second act of their show, the creative team brought to the stage perhaps the scariest character that P.L. Travers ever created: Miss Andrew, Mr. Banks’ original governess.
Copyright 1963 P.L. Travers
Played in the Broadway version of “Mary Poppins” by Ruth Gottschall, Miss Andrew is a terrific comic villain. Who — instead of following Mary Poppins’ “Spoonful of Sugar” approach — tries to keep the Banks children in line by feeding them ” … brimstone and treacle and cod liver oil.”
(L to R) Henry Hodges as ‘Micheal Banks’ and Ruth Gottschall as ‘Miss Andrew’ in
the original Broadway company of MARY POPPINS at the New Amsterdam Theatre.
Copyright 2006 Disney / CML. Photo by Joan Marcus
When I recently spoke with Ruth about this role, Ms. Gottschall explained her take on the character:
“I can’t play Miss Andrew as bad. She’s just a nanny who’s not up on these new-fangled methods. She still believes that children should be seen and not heard.
But that said, I still know how this character comes across in the show. Sometimes when I’m up on stage, I actually hear the kids out in the audience say ‘Scary, Mommy.’ “
Anyway … As you might expect, these two wildly different approaches to child-rearing eventually lead to a magical showdown between Mary Poppins & Miss Andrew. And once again, the show’s creative team tried to bring one of P.L. Travers’ original ideas to life. In that Mary dispatches the nastiest nanny in the world by first downsizing Miss Andrew and then sticking her inside of the birdcage in which Miss Andrew used to imprison a wild lark.
Copyright 1963 P. L. Travers
And while it’s obviously not possible to shrink a live performer on stage and then stuff them into a birdcage, the “Mary Poppins” creative team did come up a rather clever way to replicate this moment from “Mary Poppins Comes Back.” Which is why Miss Andrew’s comeuppance is one of the real highlights of this show’s second act.
Speaking of the second act … The “Mary Poppins” creative team wanted to give their title character a spectacular entrance in this part of the show. So once again borrowing an idea from one of Mary Shepard’s illustrations …
Copyright 1963 P. L. Travers
… they had this Practically Perfect nanny descend from the heavens on the end of Jane & Michael’s kite string, while the cast of “Mary Poppins” sang (what else?) “Let’s Go Fly a Kite.”
Which — I know — changes the film’s finale into the second act’s opening number. But let’s remember that the “Mary Poppins” creative team wasn’t out to create an exact clone of the motion picture. But — rather — they wanted to make a stage show that would blend all of this source material together (i.e. Walt Disney’s film, P.L. Travers’ stories) to create something new that still felt familiar.
Which brings us to perhaps the most entertaining sequence in the stage version of “Mary Poppins,” the “Jolly Holiday” number. Which — just as it does in the 1964 film — begins with Mary, Jane and Michael meeting Bert at the entrance of the park.
Copyright 2004 Disney / CML. All Rights Reserved
But instead of having this quartet jump into a chalk sidewalk painting and then having Bert cavort with some cartoon penguins …
Copyright 1964 Walt Disney Productions. All Rights Reserved
… the “Mary Poppins” creative team opted to go an entirely different way with their stage show. Borrowing a story idea from Travers’ 1943 book, “Mary Poppins Opens the Door,” this sequence now starts off with Mary taking the Banks children to the park …
Copyright 1971 P.L. Travers
… Jane & Michael then complain (in a new contra punctual refrain that Stiles & Drewe wrote for this old Sherman Bros. tune) that Ms. Poppins is …
“Boring, just like other nannies
Thinking parks are good for us
It’s just statues, ducks and grannies
I don’t understand all the fuss.”
Of course, what the Banks children don’t realize is that Neleus — a statue that’s been in the park for ages …
Copyright 1971 P.L. Travers
— is about to step down off of his plinth …
Copyright 1971 P.L. Travers
… to begin cavorting with these kids.
Copyright 1971 P.L. Travers
Well, the “Mary Poppins” creative team took one look at Mary Shepard’s charming illustrations for the “Marble Boy” chapter in “Mary Poppins Opens the Door” and then they wondered: What if it wasn’t just one statue in the park that was effected by Mary Poppins’ magic? But — rather — all of the statues in that park?
The original Broadway company of MARY POPPINS performs “Jolly Holiday.”
Copyright 2006 Disney / CML. Photo by Joan Marcus
Choreographer Matthew Bourne even used Shepard’s illustration as the inspiration for some comic relief in this production number.
Copyright 1971 P.L. Travers
In that — during this dance sequence — the park-keeper just can’t understand why or how the statues in his park keep winding up in different positions.
And did I mention that — as a capper to “Jolly Holiday” — the Queen herself drops by the park and then briefly dances with Mary & Bert?
(L to R) Ashley Brown, Ruth Gottschall and Gavin Lee dance with the cast
of the original Broadway company of MARY POPPINS.
Copyright 2006 Disney / CML. Photo by Joan Marcus
FYI: If the Queen in the above photo looks somewhat familiar… Well, there’s a good reason for that. You see, that part in the Broadway version of “Mary Poppins” is played by Ruth Gottschall. The same actress who plays Miss Andrew in Act Two.
Getting back to “Jolly Holiday” … Now I know that there are a number of die-hard “Mary Poppins” movie fans out there who may feel that Cameron Mackintosh & the folks at Disney Theatrical went too far and took far too many liberties with their favorite film. With the end result being this “Poppins” stage show that they don’t quite recognize.
Well, whenever the “Mary” movie fans out there bring this issue up … I just point to the number of times that the “Mary Poppins” creative team actually went out of their way to include elements from that movie. Take — for example — the Pearlies who appear in that film’s “Supercalifragilisticexpialidocius” number.
Copyright 1964 Walt Disney Productions
Bob Crowley remembered those animated characters as he was designing the Starlighter costumes for the stage version of “Mary Poppins.”
Copyright 2004 Disney / CML. All Rights Reserved
Though — to be fair — I guess I should also point out that Crowley took a lot of his inspiration for these costumes from the illustrations that Mary Shepard drew for “Mary Poppins Comes Back” ‘s “Evening Out” chapter. Where the constellations themselves (i.e. characters who are literally made up of stars) perform in a special circus for Ms. Poppins.
Copyright 1963 P.L. Travers
You see what I’m saying here, folks ? The “Mary Poppins” creative team was always looking for ways to mix elements of the movie in with scenes & characters from the Travers books to create an entirely new entertainment experience. That’s why the show’s poster actually features this line:
“Based on the stories of P.L. Travers and the Walt Disney Film”
Mind you, some of the creative compromises that the “Mary Poppins” production team made may seem — in hindsight — a trifle bizarre. Take — for example — that Mary-and-the-Corrys-paste-Gingerbread-Stars-up-into-the-night-sky sequence that I mentioned toward the top of this article. Because the ladder concept was eventually deemed to be unworkable for this stage show, what Crowley & his designers decided to go with instead was a giant light-up umbrella. Which Mary, Bert and the rest of the cast now dance around as they all sing a new Stiles & Drewe tune, “Anything Can Happen If You Let It.”
Ashley Brown and the original Broadway cast of MARY POPPINS at the New Amsterdam Theatre.
Copyright 2006 Disney / CML. Photo by Joan Marcus
Which — I know — once again seems like a departure from the “Mary Poppins” movie. But if you’re a fan of the P.L. Travers books … Well, then you already know that Travers just loved scenes like this. Where all of the characters that she’d created for her “Poppins” stories would suddenly come together and dance.
Take — for example — the illustration below from “Mary Poppins in the Park.” Which shows Mary Poppins & Mrs. Corry dancing with the shadows of characters from various P.L. Travers books.
Copyright 1980 P.L. Travers
Which is why (I guess) if you want a full appreciation of what Richard Eyre, Julian Fellowes, George Stiles, Anthony Drewe, Bob Crowley and Matthew Bourne have done with the stage version of “Mary Poppins,” you first need to revisit the 1964 Disney film as well as reread the eight P.L. Travers books.
Once you do that, you can then finally fully understand how the various elements of these earlier “Poppins” projects were woven together to create a brand new entertainment experience. Which is now being presented 8 times at a week at NYC’s New Amsterdam Theatre as well as entertaining theater goers in England (The UK tour of “Mary Poppins” got underway earlier this month at the Theatre Royal Plymouth). Not to mention the show’s North American National Tour, which kicks off at Chicago’s Cadillac Palace Theatre in March 11, 2009.
Your thoughts?
Film & Movies
Before He Was 626: The Surprisingly Dark Origins of Disney’s Stitch

Hopes are high for Disney’s live-action version of Lilo & Stitch, which opens in theaters next week (on May 23rd to be exact). And – if current box office projections hold – it will sell more than $120 million worth of tickets in North America.
Stitch Before the Live-Action: What Fans Need to Know
But here’s the thing – there wouldn’t have been a hand-drawn version of Stitch to reimagine as a live-action film if it weren’t for Academy Award-winner Chris Sanders. Who – some 40 years ago – had a very different idea in mind for this project. Not an animated film or a live-action movie, for that matter. But – rather – a children’s picture book.
Sanders revealed the true origins of Lilo & Stitch in his self-published book, From Pitch to Stitch: The Origins of Disney’s Most Unusual Classic.

From Picture Book to Pitch Meeting
Chris – after he graduated from CalArts back in 1984 (this was three years before he began working for Disney) – landed a job at Marvel Comics. Which – because Marvel Animation was producing the Muppet Babies TV show – led to an opportunity to design characters for that animated series.
About a year into this gig (we’re now talking 1985), Sanders – in his time away from work – began noodling on a side project. As Chris recalled in From Pitch to Stitch:
“Early in my animation career, I tried writing a picture book that centered around a weird little creature that lived a solitary life in the forest. He was a monster, unsure of where he had come from, or where he belonged. I generated a concept drawing, wrote some pages and started making a sculpted version of him. But I soon abandoned it as the idea seemed too large and vague to fit in thirty pages or so.”
We now jump ahead 12 years or so. Sanders has quickly moved up through the ranks at Walt Disney Animation Studios. So much so that – by 1997 – Chris is now the Head of Story on Disney’s Mulan.


A Monster in the Forest Becomes Stitch on Earth
With Mulan deep in production, Sanders was looking for his next project when an opportunity came his way.
“I had dinner with Tom Schumacher, who was president of Feature Animation at the time. He asked if there was anything I might be interested in directing. After a little reflection, I realized that there was something: That old idea from a decade prior.”
When Sanders told Schumacher about the monster who lived alone in the forest…
“Tom offered the crucial observation that – because the animal world is already alien to us – I should consider relocating the creature to the human world.”
With that in mind, Chris dusted off the story and went to work.
Over the next three months, Sanders created a pitch book for the proposed animated film. What he came up with was very different from the version of Lilo & Stitch that eventually hit theaters in 2002.
The Most Dangerous Creature in the Known Universe
The pitch – first shared with Walt Disney Feature Animation staffers on January 9, 1998 – was titled: Lilo & Stitch: A love story of a girl and what she thinks is a dog.
This early version of Stitch was… not cute. Not cuddly. He was mean, selfish, self-centered – a career criminal. When the story opens, Stitch is in a security pod at an intergalactic trial, found guilty of 12,000 counts of hooliganism and attempted planetary enslavement.
Instead of being created by Jumba, Stitch leads a gang of marauders. His second-in-command? Ramthar, a giant, red shark-like brute.
When Stitch refuses to reveal the gang’s location, he’s sentenced to life on a maximum-security asteroid. But en route, his gang attacks the prison convoy. In the chaos, Stitch escapes in a hijacked pod and crash-lands on Earth.


Earth in Danger, Jumba on the Hunt
Terrified of what Stitch could do to our technologically inferior planet, the Grand Council Woman sends bounty hunter Jumba – along with a rule-abiding Cultural Contamination Control agent named Pleakley – to retrieve (or eliminate) Stitch.
Their mission must be secret, follow Earth laws, and – most importantly – ensure no harm comes to any humans.
Naturally, Stitch ignores all that.
After his crash, Stitch claws out of the wreckage, sees the lights of a nearby town, and screams, “I will destroy you all!” That plan is immediately derailed when he’s run over by a convoy of sugar cane trucks.
Waking up in the local humane society, Stitch sees a news report confirming the Federation is already hot on his trail. He needs to blend in. Fast.
Enter Lilo
Lilo is a lonely little girl, mourning her parents, looking for a pet. Stitch plays the role of a “cute little doggie” because it’s a means to an end. At this point, Lilo is just someone to use while he builds a communications device.
Using parts from her toys and a stolen police radio, Stitch contacts his old gang. But Ramthar, now the leader, isn’t thrilled. Still, Stitch sends a signal.
Then he builds an army.
Stitch Goes Full Skynet
Stitch constructs a small robot, sends it to the junkyard to build bigger robots. Soon, he has an army. When Ramthar and crew arrive, Stitch’s robots surround them. Ramthar is furious, but Stitch regains command.
Next, Stitch sets his robotic horde on a nearby town. Everything goes smoothly until a robot targets the hula studio where Lilo is dancing. As it lifts her in its claw, Stitch has a change of heart. He saves her.
From here, the plot begins to resemble the Lilo & Stitch we know today. Sort of.
The Ending That Never Was
In Sanders’ original version, it’s not Captain Gantu who kidnaps Lilo, but Ramthar. And when the Grand Council Woman comes to collect Stitch, Lilo produces a receipt from the humane society.
“I paid a $4 processing fee to adopt him. If you take Stitch, you’re stealing.”
The Grand Council Woman crumples the receipt and says, “I didn’t see it.”
Nani chimes in: “Well, I saw it.”
Then Jumba. Then one of Stitch’s old crew. Then a hula girl. And finally, Pleakley pulls out his CCC badge and says:
“Well, I am Pleakley Grathor, Cultural Contamination Control Agent No. 444. And I saw it.”
Pleakley saves Stitch.


How Roy E. Disney Made Stitch Cuddly
Ultimately, this version of Lilo & Stitch was streamlined. Roy E. Disney believed Stitch shouldn’t be nasty. Just naughty. And not by choice – he was designed that way.
Which is how Stitch became Experiment 626. A misunderstood creation of Jumba the mad scientist, not a hardened criminal with a vendetta.
The rest, as they say, is history.

Ricardo Montalbán’s Lost Role
Here’s a detail that even hardcore Lilo & Stitch fans may not know: Ricardo Montalbán—best known as Mr. Roarke from Fantasy Island and Khan Noonien Singh from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan—was originally cast as the voice of Ramthar, Stitch’s second-in-command in this early version of the film. He had already recorded a significant amount of dialogue before the story was reworked following Roy E. Disney’s guidance. When Stitch evolved from a ruthless galactic outlaw to a misunderstood genetic experiment, Montalbán’s character (and much of the original gang concept) was written out entirely.
Which is kind of wild when you think about it. Wrath of Khan is widely considered the gold standard of Star Trek films. So yes, for a time, Khan himself was supposed to be part of Disney’s weirdest sci-fi comedy.
Stitch’s Legacy (and Why It Still Resonates)
Looking back at Stitch’s original story, it’s wild to think how close we came to getting a very different kind of movie. One where our favorite blue alien was less “ohana means family” and more “I’ll destroy you all.” But that transformation—from outlaw to outcast to ohana—is exactly what makes Lilo & Stitch so special.
So as the live-action version prepares to hit theaters, keep in mind that behind all the cuddly merch and tiki mugs lies one of Disney’s strangest, boldest, and most hard-won reinventions. One that started with a forest monster and became a beloved franchise about found family.
June 26th is officially Stitch Day—so mark your calendar. It’s a good excuse to celebrate just how far this little blue alien has come.
Film & Movies
How “An American Tail” Led to Disney’s “Hocus Pocus”

Over the last week, I’ve been delving into Witches Run Amok, Shannon Carlin’s oral history of the making of Disney’s Hocus Pocus. This book reveals some fascinating behind-the-scenes stories about the 1993 film that initially bombed at the box office but has since become a cult favorite, even spawning a sequel in 2022 that went on to become the most-watched release in Disney+ history.
But what really caught my eye in this 284-page hardcover wasn’t just the tales of Hocus Pocus’s unlikely rise to fame. Rather, it was the unexpected connections between Hocus Pocus and another beloved film—An American Tail. As it turns out, the two films share a curious origin story, one that begins in the mid-1980s, during the early days of the creative rebirth of Walt Disney Studios under Michael Eisner, Frank Wells, and Jeffrey Katzenberg.
The Birth of An American Tail
Let’s rewind to late 1984/early 1985, a period when Eisner, Wells, and Katzenberg were just getting settled at Disney and were on the hunt for fresh projects that would signal a new era at the studio. During this time, Katzenberg—tasked with revitalizing Disney Feature Animation—began meeting with talent across Hollywood, hoping to find a project that could breathe life into the struggling division.
One such meeting was with a 29-year-old writer and illustrator named David Kirschner. At the time, Kirschner’s biggest credit was illustrating children’s books featuring Muppets and Sesame Street characters, but he had an idea for a new project: a TV special about a mouse emigrating to America, culminating in the mouse’s arrival in New York Harbor on the same day as the dedication of the Statue of Liberty in 1886.

Katzenberg saw the patriotic appeal of the concept but ultimately passed on it, as he was focused on finding full-length feature projects for Disney’s animation department. Kirschner, undeterred, took his pitch elsewhere—to none other than Kathleen Kennedy, Steven Spielberg’s production partner. Kennedy was intrigued and invited Kirschner to Spielberg’s annual Fourth of July party to pitch the idea directly to the famed director.
Spielberg immediately saw the potential in Kirschner’s idea, but instead of a TV special, he envisioned a full-length animated feature film. This project would eventually become An American Tail, a tribute of sorts to Spielberg’s own grandfather, Philip Posner, who emigrated from Russia to the United States in the late 19th century. The film’s lead character, Fievel, was even named after Spielberg’s grandfather, whose Yiddish name was also Fievel.
Disney’s Loss Becomes Universal’s Gain
An American Tail went on to become a major success for Universal Pictures, which hadn’t been involved in an animated feature since the release of Pinocchio in Outer Space in 1965. Meanwhile, over at Disney, Eisner and Wells weren’t exactly thrilled that Katzenberg had let such a promising project slip through his fingers.
Not wanting to miss out on any future opportunities with Kirschner, Katzenberg quickly scheduled another meeting with him to discuss any other ideas he might have. And as fate would have it, Kirschner had just written a short story for Muppet Magazine called Halloween House, about a boy who is magically transformed into a cat by a trio of witches.
The Pitch That Sealed the Deal
Knowing Katzenberg could be a tough sell, Kirschner went all out to impress during his pitch. He requested access to the Disney lot 30 minutes early to set the stage for his presentation. When Katzenberg and the Disney development team walked into the conference room, they were greeted by a table covered in candy corn, a cauldron of dry ice fog, and a broom, mop, and vacuum cleaner suspended from the ceiling as if they were flying—evoking the magical world of Halloween House.
Katzenberg was reportedly unimpressed by the theatrical setup, muttering, “Oy, show-and-tell time” as he took his seat. But Kirschner knew exactly how to grab his attention. He started his pitch with the fact that Halloween was a billion-dollar business—a figure that made Katzenberg sit up and take notice. He listened attentively to Kirschner’s pitch, and by the time the meeting was over, Katzenberg was convinced. Halloween House would become Hocus Pocus, and Disney had its next big Halloween film.
A Bit of Hollywood Drama
Interestingly, Kirschner’s success with Hocus Pocus didn’t sit well with his old collaborators. About a year after the film’s release, Kirschner ran into Kathleen Kennedy at an Amblin holiday party, and she wasted no time in expressing her disappointment. According to Kirschner, Kennedy said, “You really hurt Steven.” When Kirschner asked how, she explained that Spielberg and Kennedy had given him his big break with An American Tail, but when he came up with the idea for his next film, he brought it to Disney rather than to them.
Hollywood can be a place where loyalty is valued—or, at least, perceived loyalty. At the same time, this was happening just as Katzenberg was leaving Disney and partnering with Spielberg and David Geffen to launch DreamWorks SKG, which only added to the tension. Loyalty, as Kirschner found out, can be an abstract concept in the entertainment industry.
A Halloween Favorite is Born
Despite its rocky start at the box office in 1993, Hocus Pocus has gone on to become a beloved part of Halloween pop culture. And, as Carlin’s book details, its success helped pave the way for more Disney Halloween-themed projects in the years that followed.

As for why Hocus Pocus was released in July of 1993 instead of during Halloween? That’s a story for another time, but it has something to do with another Halloween-themed project Disney was working on that year—Tim Burton’s The Nightmare Before Christmas—and Katzenberg finding himself in the awkward position of having to choose between keeping Bette Midler or Tim Burton happy.
For more behind-the-scenes stories about Hocus Pocus and other Disney films, be sure to check out Witches Run Amok by Shannon Carlin. It’s a fascinating read for any Disney fan!
And if you love hearing these kinds of behind-the-scenes stories about animation and film history, be sure to check out Fine Tooning with Drew Taylor, where Drew and I dive deep into all things movies, animation, and the creative decisions that shape the films we love. You can find us on your favorite podcast platforms or right here on JimHillMedia.com.
Film & Movies
How Disney’s “Bambi” led to the creation of Smokey Bear

When people talk about Disney’s “Bambi,” the scene that they typically cite as being the one from this 1942 film which then scarred them for life is – of course – the moment in this movie where Bambi’s mother gets shot by hunters.
Which is kind of ironic. Given that – if you watch this animated feature today – you’ll see that a lot of this ruined-my-childhood scene actually happens off-camera. I mean, you hear the rifle shot that takes down Bambi’s Mom. But you don’t actually see that Mama Deer get clipped.
Now for the scariest part of that movie that you actually see on-camera … Hands down, that has to be the forest fire sequence in “Bambi.” As the grown-up Bambi & his bride, Faline, desperately race through those woods, trying to find a path to safety as literally everything around them is ablaze … That sequence is literally nightmare fuel.

Mind you, the artists at Walt Disney Animation Studios had lots of inspiration for the forest fire sequence in “Bambi.” You see, in a typical year, the United States experiences – due to either natural phenomenon like lightning strikes or human carelessness – 100 forest fires. Whereas in 1940 (i.e., the year that Disney Studios began working in earnest of a movie version of Felix Salten’s best-selling movie), America found itself battling a record 360 forest fires.
Which greatly concerned the U.S. Forest Service. But not for the reason you might think.
Protecting the Forest for World War II
I mean, yes. Sure. Officials over in the Agricultural Department (That’s the arm of the U.S. government that manages the Forest Service) were obviously concerned about the impact that this record number of forest fires in 1940 had had on citizens. Not to mention all of the wildlife habitat that was now lost.
But to be honest, what really concerned government officials was those hundreds of thousands of acres of raw timber that had been consumed by these blazes. You see, by 1940, the world was on the cusp of the next world war. A conflict that the U.S. would inevitably be pulled into. And all that now-lost timber? It could have been used to fuel the U.S. war machine.
So with this in mind (and U.S. government officials now seeing an urgent need to preserve & protect this precious resource) … Which is why – in 1942 (just a few months after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor) – the U.S. Forest Service rolls out its first-ever forest fire prevention program.
Which – given that this was the early days of World War II – the slogan that the U.S. Forest Service initially chose for its forest fire prevention program is very in that era’s we’re-all-in-this-together / so-let’s-do-what-we-can-to-help-America’s war-effort esthetic – made a direct appeal to all those folks who were taking part in scrap metal drives: “Forest Defense is National Defense.”

And the poster that the U.S. Forest Service had created to support this campaign? … Well, it was well-meaning as well. It was done in the WPA style and showed men out in the forest, wielding shovels to ditch a ditch. They were trying to construct a fire break, which would then supposedly slow the forest fire that was directly behind them.
But the downside was … That “Forest Defense is National Defense” slogan – along with that poster which the U.S. Forest Service had created to support their new forest fire prevention program didn’t exactly capture America’s attention.
I mean, it was the War Years after all. A lot was going in the country at that time. But long story short: the U.S. Forest Service’s first attempt at launching a successful forest fire prevention program sank without a trace.
So what do you do in a situation like this? You regroup. You try something different.
Disney & Bambi to the Rescue
And within the U.S. government, the thinking now was “Well, what if we got a celebrity to serve as the spokesman for our new forest fire prevention program? Maybe that would then grab the public’s attention.”
The only problem was … Well, again, these are the War Years. And a lot of that era’s A-listers (people like Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gable, even Mel Brooks) had already enlisted. So there weren’t really a lot of big-name celebrities to choose from.
But then some enterprising official at the U.S. Forest Service came up with an interesting idea. He supposedly said “Hey, have you seen that new Disney movie? You know, the one with the deer? That movie has a forest fire in it. Maybe we should go talk with Walt Disney? Maybe he has some ideas about how we can better capture the public’s attention when it comes to our new forest fire prevention program?”
And it turns Walt did have an idea. Which was to use this government initiative as a way to cross-promote Disney Studio’s latest full-length animated feature, “Bambi.” Which been first released to theaters in August of 1942.
So Walt had artists at Disney Studio work up a poster that featured the grown-up versions of Bambi the Deer, Thumper the Rabbit & Flower the Skunk. As this trio stood in some tall grasses, they looked imploring out at whoever was standing in front of this poster. Above them was a piece of text that read “Please Mister, Don’t Be Careless.” And below these three cartoon characters was an additional line that read “Prevent Forest Fires. Greater Danger Than Ever!”

According to folks I’ve spoken with at Disney’s Corporate Archives, this “Bambi” -based promotional campaign for the U.S. Forest Service’s forest fire prevention campaign was a huge success. So much so that – as 1943 drew to a close – this division of the Department of Agriculture reportedly reached out to Walt to see if he’d be willing to let the U.S. Forest Service continue to use these cartoon characters to help raise the public’s awareness of fire safety.
Walt – for reasons known only to Mr. Disney – declined. Some have suggested that — because “Bambi” had actually lost money during its initial theatrical release in North America – that Walt was now looking to put that project behind him. And if there were posters plastered all over the place that then used the “Bambi” characters that then promoted the U.S.’s forest fire prevention efforts … Well, it would then be far harder for Mr. Disney to put this particular animated feature in the rear view mirror.
Introducing Smokey Bear
Long story short: Walt said “No” when it came to reusing the “Bambi” characters to promote the U.S. Forest Service’s forest fire prevention program. But given how successful the previous cartoon-based promotional campaign had been … Well, some enterprising employee at the Department of Agriculture reportedly said “Why don’t we come up with a cartoon character of our own?”
So – for the Summer of 1944 – the U.S. Forest Service (with the help of the Ad Council and the National Association of State Foresters) came up with a character to help promote the prevention of forest fires. And his name is Smokey Bear.
Now a lot of thought had gone into Smokey’s creation. Right from the get-go, it was decided that he would be an American black bear (NOT a brown bear or a grizzly). To make this character seem approachable, Smokey was outfitted with a ranger’s hat. He also wore a pair of blue jeans & carried a bucket.
As for his debut poster, Smokey was depicted as pouring water over a still-smoldering campfire. And below this cartoon character was printed Smokey’s initial catchphrase. Which was “Care will prevent 9 out of 10 forest fires!”

Which makes me think that this slogan was written by the very advertising executive who wrote “Four out of five dentists recommend sugarless gum for their patients who chew gum.”
Anyway … By the Summer of 1947, Smokey got a brand-new slogan. The one that he uses even today. Which is “Only YOU can prevent forest fires.”
The Real Smokey Bear
Now where this gets interesting is – in the Summer of 1950 – there was a terrible forest fire up in the Capitan Mountains of New Mexico. And over the course of this blaze, a bear cub climbed high up into a tree to try & escape those flames.
Firefighters were finally able to rescue that cub. But he was so badly injured in that fire that he was shipped off to the National Zoo in Washington, D.C. and nursed back to health. And since this bear really couldn’t be released back in the wild at this point, he was then put on exhibit.
And what does this bear’s keepers decide to call him? You guessed it: Smokey.

And due to all the news coverage that this orphaned bear got, he eventually became the living symbol of the U.S. Forest Service’s forest fire prevention program. Which then meant that this particular Smokey Bear got hit with a ton of fan mail. So much so that the National Zoo in Washington D.C. wound up with its own Zip Code.
“Smokey the Bear” Hit Song
And on the heels of a really-for-real Smokey Bear taking up residence in our nation’s capital, Steve Nelson & Jack Rollins decide to write a song that shined a spotlight on this fire-fightin’ bruin. Here’s the opening stanza:
With a ranger’s hat and shovel and a pair of dungarees,
You will find him in the forest always sniffin’ at the breeze,
People stop and pay attention when he tells them to beware
Because everybody knows that he’s the fire-preventin’ bear
Believe or not, even with lyrics like these, “Smokey the Bear” briefly topped the Country charts in the Summer of 1950. Thanks to a version of this song that was recorded by Gene Autry, the Singing Cowboy.
By the way, it was this song that started all of the confusion in regards to Smokey Bear’s now. You see, Nelson & Rollins – because they need the lyrics of their song to scan properly – opted to call this fire-fightin’-bruin Smokey THE Bear. Rather than Smokey Bear. Which has been this cartoon character’s official name since the U.S. Forest Service first introduced him back in 1944.
“The Ballad of Smokey the Bear”
Further complicating this issue was “The Ballad of Smokey the Bear,” which was a stop-motion animated special that debuted on NBC in late November of 1966. Produced by Rankin-Bass as a follow-up to their hugely popular “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” (which premiered on the Peacock Network in December of 1964) … This hour-long TV show also put a “THE” in the middle of Smokey Bear’s name because the folks at Rankin-Bass thought his name sounded better that way.
And speaking of animation … Disney’s “Bambi” made a brief return to the promotional campaign for the U.S. Forest Service’s forest fire prevention program in the late 1980s. This was because the Company’s home entertainment division had decided to release this full-length animated feature on VHS.
What’s kind of interesting, though, is the language used on the “Bambi” poster is a wee different than the language that’s used on Smokey’s poster. It reads “Protect Our Forest Friends. Only You Can Prevent Wildfires.” NOT “Forest Fires.”
Anyway, that’s how Disney’s “Bambi” led to the creation of Smokey Bear. Thanks for bearin’ with me as I clawed my way through this grizzly tale.
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