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Why For Returns! – Witch’s House, “A Few Good Ghosts”, Treehouse Villas, and More

After a slight summer siesta, JHM’s most popular column returns with even more answers to your Disney-related questions. This time around, Jim answers your queries about LA’s Storybook architecture, “A Few Good Ghosts,” what’s going on with WDW’s Treehouse Villas, as well as sharing some info about the “Tinker Bell” movie.

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First up, Ari S. writes in to ask:

Jim —

There’s this weird old house on Walden Drive in Beverly Hills. You may have seen pictures of it in LA history books. It looks like something straight out of a Disney animated feature from the 1930s.

That’s actually why I’m writing today. A friend of mine swears that this house was actually designed by a lead animator on “Snow White.” But I don’t know if I can buy that story.

So I was wondering: Do you know anything about the Spadena House at 516 Walden Drive? Was it really built by somebody who worked on “Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs”?

Ari S.

Dear Ari S.

You’re talking about the “Witch’s House,” aren’t you? Arguably the most famous of Los Angeles’ Storybook houses.

Photo by Nancy Stadler

Man, I’ve looking for an excuse to visit this place for years. So — using your e-mail as an incentive, Ari — Nancy and I made a special trip out to the Spadena House while we were in LA last month. In fact, the photos that I’m using to illustrate this “Why For” answer were actually taken at the “Witch’s House” the Saturday before last.

Did “Snow White” Animator Design the Witch’s House in Los Angeles?

Anyway … To answer your question, Ari … Your friend’s wrong. Yes, a story has circulated around Hollywood for decades now about how the Spadena House was reportedly designed by the art director of “Snow White.” How all the work that this guy did on Walt Disney’s first full length animated feature supposedly inspired him to create a home that looked like the Seven Dwarfs could live there.

Photo by Nancy Stadler

The only problem with this Tinseltown tale is that the times and dates involved here don’t really jib. By that I mean: Yes, a studio art director named Harry Oliver did design and build the “Witch’s House.” But the fact of the matter is that Oliver built the Spadena House (which was originally used as office space & dressing rooms at the long-since-defunct Willat Studios in Culver City) back in 1921. Whereas Walt didn’t begin working on “Snow White” ’til late 1934 / early 1935.

So you see what I’m saying here, Ari? The details of your friend’s story just don’t add up. Mind you, if someone wanted to try & sell me on the idea that the “Witch’s House” somehow influenced that look of Disney’s “Snow White” … Well, that I might believe.

Witch’s House Restoration

After all, the Spadena House is a wonder. Or — rather — it will be a wonder again. Once the multi-million dollar restoration job that the “Witch’s House” ‘s current owner — Beverly Hills realtor Michael Libow — is having done to this Walden Drive home is finally complete.

Photo by Nancy Stadler

As you can see by the above photo, no expense is being spared in Libow’s effort to restore this stylized structure to its former glory. Michael’s even going so far as to authorize the use of real wooden shingles to replace all of those that have fallen out of the house’s roof over the past 70 years. Which is a decision that you just know Libow’s insurance company can’t be all that crazy about.

Anywho … The way I hear it, this restoration should finally be complete sometime over the next six months. So tell you what: The next time Nancy and I are out in LA, we’ll swing on by 516 Walden Drive and see if we can’t get some more pictures of the “Witch’s House.” Just so JHM readers can see what this Storybook house looks like when all the work is finally complete.

Storybookers.com (Under Construction)

Speaking of Storybook houses: If you’d like to learn more about this unique aspect of Los Angeles’ architectural history, then I suggest you check out John Robert Marlow’s storybookers.com. Which (admittedly) is a kind of work-in-progress. But — that said — this website still has a great selection of photos of some of LA’s more famous Storybook homes.

“A Few Good Ghosts” – Hillbilly Romeo and Juliet

Next up, Robert P. writes in to ask about an aborted Feature Animation Florida project:

Jim —

Thanks for all the images from SIGGRAPH this week. It really gives me some hope to see that Disney Feature Animation has so many good looking projects in the works right now. That maybe the studio really has finally turned a corner and is on the way back to greatness.

But still I wonder about all those films that Disney almost made. Like the one I heard about while I was vacationing in Orlando a few years back. It was supposed to be this backwoods fantasy. A hillbilly version Romeo & Juliet. Based on what that tour guide at Disney/MGM told us about the picture (I remember that the film’s cast was supposed to feature Dolly Parton, Lily Tomlin and Hal Holbrook. And that the movie’s music was supposed to be done by Ricky Skaggs), this project sounded like it could have been a hell of a lot of fun.

For the life of me, I can’t remember what this movie was supposed to be called. But I still wish Disney had finished making it so that I could have seen this.

Do you know anything about this movie? It was supposed to be made at that animation studio at Disney/MGM.

Thanks,

Robert P.

Dear Robert P. —

The movie that you’re talking about was first called “My Peoples,” then “Angel and her No Good Sister,” then “A Few Good Ghosts.” Production of this 2D / CG hybrid was officially shut down on November 14, 2003. When David Stainton, president of Disney Feature Animation, quietly slipped into town and suddenly announced to staffers who work ed at the Florida animation studio that the Disney-MGM operation would soon be shutting down.

Now some people will tell you that the real reason that WDFAF was closed was “A Few Good Ghosts” had significant story problems. That this film just wasn’t ready to move into full-blown production. But I’ve seen a few clips from the work-in-progress version of the picture & looked at a few storyboards. And you know — based on what I saw of that picture — I think that “Ghosts” could have been a really fun flick. This project had a genuinely quirky charm and a style all its own.

And the film’s music … That (to my way of thinking, anyway) was one of the real losses of “A Few Good Ghosts” ‘s cancellation. Grammy Award winner Ricky Skaggs wrote three songs for the film. Marty Stuart also contributed several tunes to the movie’s score, including one that Stuart collaborated on with Skaggs. Plus Ricky worked with Hank Williams III on a Hank Williams song that was to have been featured prominently in the picture.

So we’re talking about a Disney animation feature with a decidedly bluegrass score. Which — given “A Few Good Ghosts” setting and storyline — only seems logical.

Now normally when production of a Disney animated film is cancelled, all of the material that was prepared for that picture goes straight into the vault. Never to be seen or heard again. But when it came to “A Few Good Ghosts,” something unusual happened.

For some reason, rather than lock this stuff away forever, Walt Disney Feature Animation actually agreed to give Rick Skaggs back two songs that he’d prepared for “Ghosts” : Two instrumentals called “Appalachian Joy” and “Monroe Dancin.’ ”  Skaggs then included these two cuts on his latest album, “Brand New Strings.” Which was released to stores back on September of 2004.

So even though production of this WDFAF film didn’t actually go forward, a little bit of “A Few Good Ghosts” still lives on. At least as instrumentals on the new Ricky Skaggs album. So if you still want to get a sense of what “Ghosts” was going to be like, Robert P., I suggest you pick up a copy of “Brand New Strings.”

Tree House Villas at Walt Disney World

Next up, William writes in to ask:

Do you know why the Tree House Villas at Walt Disney World have never reopened? They were “temporarily” closed after 9/11 and they have never reopened. When taking the boat launch from Port Orleans to Downtown Disney, the Tree House Villas are still visible. The only problem is they still have trees and tree branches on top of them from the hurricanes of last year. It looks like nothing has been done to repair them or even clean up the downed trees. I would really like to know why this resort remains abandoned and neglected.

You know, I’m not actually sure about this one, William. So why don’t we turn to JHM resident WDW hotel expert — Scott Liljenquist of Mouseketrips.com — and see what he has to say about what’s going with the Treehouse Villas at Disney World? Scott?

That’s an interesting question, William, and one that we get asked quite often. Apparently there is still plenty of interest in the Treehouse Villas if the number of inquiries we get is any indication.

First a little history for those who might not be familiar with the Treehouse Villas. Disney announced plans in 1973 for a permanent residential area to be constructed on Walt Disney World property. To be called Lake Buena Vista, it was to have included townhomes, single family homes, apartments, condos, a shopping area, and recreation facilities. The 60 Treehouse Villas were built in 1975 as a part of this project, which was renamed the Village Resort in 1985 when the original residential concept was abandoned.

The Treehouse Villas are two-story, octagonal-shaped structures that feature 3 bedrooms, a living room area, full kitchen, dining area, and two bathrooms. Located right on the bank of the Sassagoula River, each Treehouse Villa is a free-standing structure and is surrounded by trees and wooded areas. The second floor is cantilevered and makes for a very interesting architectural design.

The entire Village Resort and along with the Treehouse Villas were absorbed in 1996 into the Villas at the Disney Institute, Michael Eisner’s “Education on Vacation” concept. You can see the villas at the north eastern end of the property in an original property map below.

All of the Treehouse Villas were closed in 2001 after 9/11, with an undetermined future as a reopening date was never set. Although given a valiant effort, Disney in late 2002 finally determined that the “educational vacation” was just not appealing to visitors and closed the Disney Institute permanently. The Disney Institute land was to be turned over to the Disney Vacation Club for construction of Saratoga Springs, a new vacation ownership property which opened its first phase in 2004.

The Treehouses, however, remain closed. Why For? The Treehouse Villas, as they currently exist, don’t fit architecturally in the theme of Saratoga Springs and would require extensive renovation in order to make them inhabitable again. In addition, the freestanding construction of each unit dramatically increases maintenance and housekeeping costs.

Disney would ultimately like to tear down the Treehouses and replace them with another phase of Saratoga Springs, but they can’t. The Warren S. Henderson Wetlands Protection Act of 1984 prohibits most new construction in any area designated as wetlands. The Treehouse Villas property, located as it is on the shore of the river, falls under this Wetlands Protection Act, which means that new construction on the scale desired by Disney would not be allowed.

However, because the Treehouses existed before the passage of the act, they are “grandfathered” in and may remain as they are currently constructed. They can be maintained under strict guidelines, and can be improved or renovated under even more strict guidelines, and therein lies the problem for Disney. Do they renovate and reopen the Treehouses as an ill-fitting and maintenance intensive part of Saratoga Springs, do they tear down the Treehouses and not re-use the land, or do they just leave the Treehouses as-is until a better plan can be devised?

As anyone who has taken the Sassagoula River Cruise or the water taxi from Port Orleans to Downtown Disney knows, option number 3 seems to be the choice for now. The Treehouse Villas are still visible from the boat, and most captains will gladly discuss the history and future of the Treehouses if asked.

Most of the Treehouses are empty, although some are used for storage. Disney, in an attempt to maintain a good image for the property, has connected lighting in the Treehouses to timers so that lights are on at night to prevent the appearance of abandonment.

This strategy was working well until last fall. As most of you know, the area was pounded by three powerful hurricanes. The Treehouse Villas suffered severe damage from water and fallen trees, most of which was clearly visible from the water taxis.

Disney wanted to clean up the damage with the same speed and efficiency with which the rest of the hurricane damage on property was handled. However, a long, intensive governmental permitting process had to be commenced in order to fix the damage within the confines of the Wetlands Protection Act. Permission was finally given earlier this summer for Disney to repair the storm damage. The fallen trees have been removed, the damaged roofs have been repaired, and a couple of the decks that were destroyed have been rebuilt.

So what’s the future of the Treehouse Villas? Disney has begun the long permitting process required to renovate the property. Current speculation has Disney renovating the Treehouses from the inside out and reopening them at a future date as a part of Saratoga Springs.

Our guess is that, assuming the necessary permits can be secured, that the Treehouses will reopen when they can be accessed from Saratoga Springs without having to travel through any of the current construction areas.

We hope they do. The Treehouse Villas are a unique experience at Walt Disney World, and were a fun place to stay. As they existed previously they were a fairly reasonably priced lodging that would accommodate up to 6 people. They were secluded and private, and the wooded, rustic setting was a welcome change.

Okay. Now let’s toss this week’s “Why For” back to Mr. Hill. Jim?

Thank you, Scott. It’s always a pleasure to hear from the guys over at Mouseketrips.

Okay. Where were we? Oh, yeah. Answering your questions about what actually goes on at the Mouse House.

Tinkerbell Movie in Development

For our final “Why For” question for this week … Chris B. writes in to say:

Hey Jim,

Any scuttle on the possibility of Tinkerbell actually talking in the new fairy movie supposedly in development?
That would sure open up a can of worms in the Disneyana world, wouldn’t it?

Love the site. Read it every day after I check my e-mail.
Chris

Chris —

You know, late last month, I actually caught a glimpse of Tink as she’ll be seen in the “Tinker Bell” movie. In that promo reel that WDFA was showing in their booth at SIGGRAPH. The footage flew by in the blip of an eye. But — for the tenth of a second there — it clearly showed an animator at DisneyToon Studios working with an image of a CG version of Tinker Bell on their monitor.

Oh, did I forget to mention that? That the “Tinker Bell” movie that DisneyToon Studios currently has in production will be computer animated?

Now before all of you Disney purists out there start to work yourselves up into a frenzy about how ” … Walt would have never allowed this,” how this project is ” … a total betrayal of what the Walt Disney Company used to stand for,” etc. … Let me start by saying this is not the same CG Tink that you see at the end of “Soarin’ ” or at the beginning of ABC’s “Wonderful World of Disney” television program. This computer animated version of Tinker Bell is several generations ahead of that one. And — to be honest — it looks pretty good.

Secondly, this “Tinker Bell” movie … It’s kind of a departure from the Tink we’ve known to date. The cute little pixie who was Peter Pan’s sidekick. As it turns out, this diminutive blonde actually has a life outside of work. She has friends. More to the point, Tinker Bell can talk. At least to other fairies.

You want a hint of what’s about to come? Go over to Amazon.com now and place an order for Gail Carson Levine’s “Fairy Dust and the Quest for the Egg.” This Disney Press title isn’t actually due to hit store shelves ’til September 20th. But it speaks volumes about what the Walt Disney Company plans to do with Tinker Bell. Particularly when the corporation gets started with rolling out all of its “Disney Fairies” stuff next year.

Speaking of which, Chris … That “Tinker Bell” movie. It’s actually the first of four films that will feature Ms. Bell and her new pals. The first is the stand alone feature, which will then be followed by a trilogy. Yes, a three part epic adventure from DisneyToon Studios. It’s perhaps the most ambitious project that that division of the Walt Disney Company has ever attempted. Though — given that DisneyToon will be farming all of this CG out to outside companies to produce — it’ll be interesting to see how good the finished product turns out to be.

And — speaking of finished — I guess that about wraps it up for this week’s “Why For.” You folks have a great weekend, okay? And we’ll pick up where we left off on Monday, alright?

Talk to you later,

j

Jim Hill is an entertainment writer who has specialized in covering The Walt Disney Company for nearly 40 years now. Over that time, he has interviewed hundreds of animators, actors, and Imagineers -- many of whom have shared behind-the-scenes stories with Mr. Hill about how the Mouse House really works. In addition to the 4000+ articles Jim has written for the Web, he also co-hosts a trio of popular podcasts: “Disney Dish with Len Testa,” “Fine Tooning with Drew Taylor” and “Marvel US Disney with Aaron Adams.” Mr. Hill makes his home in Southern New Hampshire with his lovely wife Nancy and two obnoxious cats, Ginger & Betty.

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Film & Movies

Before He Was 626: The Surprisingly Dark Origins of Disney’s Stitch

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Before Stitch

Hopes are high for Disney’s live-action version of Lilo & Stitch, which opens in theaters next week (on May 23rd to be exact). And – if current box office projections hold – it will sell more than $120 million worth of tickets in North America.

Stitch Before the Live-Action: What Fans Need to Know

But here’s the thing – there wouldn’t have been a hand-drawn version of Stitch to reimagine as a live-action film if it weren’t for Academy Award-winner Chris Sanders. Who – some 40 years ago – had a very different idea in mind for this project. Not an animated film or a live-action movie, for that matter. But – rather – a children’s picture book.

Sanders revealed the true origins of Lilo & Stitch in his self-published book, From Pitch to Stitch: The Origins of Disney’s Most Unusual Classic.

From Picture Book to Pitch Meeting

Chris – after he graduated from CalArts back in 1984 (this was three years before he began working for Disney) – landed a job at Marvel Comics. Which – because Marvel Animation was producing the Muppet Babies TV show – led to an opportunity to design characters for that animated series.

About a year into this gig (we’re now talking 1985), Sanders – in his time away from work – began noodling on a side project. As Chris recalled in From Pitch to Stitch:

“Early in my animation career, I tried writing a picture book that centered around a weird little creature that lived a solitary life in the forest. He was a monster, unsure of where he had come from, or where he belonged. I generated a concept drawing, wrote some pages and started making a sculpted version of him. But I soon abandoned it as the idea seemed too large and vague to fit in thirty pages or so.”

We now jump ahead 12 years or so. Sanders has quickly moved up through the ranks at Walt Disney Animation Studios. So much so that – by 1997 – Chris is now the Head of Story on Disney’s Mulan.

A Monster in the Forest Becomes Stitch on Earth

With Mulan deep in production, Sanders was looking for his next project when an opportunity came his way.

“I had dinner with Tom Schumacher, who was president of Feature Animation at the time. He asked if there was anything I might be interested in directing. After a little reflection, I realized that there was something: That old idea from a decade prior.”

When Sanders told Schumacher about the monster who lived alone in the forest…

“Tom offered the crucial observation that – because the animal world is already alien to us – I should consider relocating the creature to the human world.”

With that in mind, Chris dusted off the story and went to work.

Over the next three months, Sanders created a pitch book for the proposed animated film. What he came up with was very different from the version of Lilo & Stitch that eventually hit theaters in 2002.

The Most Dangerous Creature in the Known Universe

The pitch – first shared with Walt Disney Feature Animation staffers on January 9, 1998 – was titled: Lilo & Stitch: A love story of a girl and what she thinks is a dog.

This early version of Stitch was… not cute. Not cuddly. He was mean, selfish, self-centered – a career criminal. When the story opens, Stitch is in a security pod at an intergalactic trial, found guilty of 12,000 counts of hooliganism and attempted planetary enslavement.

Instead of being created by Jumba, Stitch leads a gang of marauders. His second-in-command? Ramthar, a giant, red shark-like brute.

When Stitch refuses to reveal the gang’s location, he’s sentenced to life on a maximum-security asteroid. But en route, his gang attacks the prison convoy. In the chaos, Stitch escapes in a hijacked pod and crash-lands on Earth.

Earth in Danger, Jumba on the Hunt

Terrified of what Stitch could do to our technologically inferior planet, the Grand Council Woman sends bounty hunter Jumba – along with a rule-abiding Cultural Contamination Control agent named Pleakley – to retrieve (or eliminate) Stitch.

Their mission must be secret, follow Earth laws, and – most importantly – ensure no harm comes to any humans.

Naturally, Stitch ignores all that.

After his crash, Stitch claws out of the wreckage, sees the lights of a nearby town, and screams, “I will destroy you all!” That plan is immediately derailed when he’s run over by a convoy of sugar cane trucks.

Waking up in the local humane society, Stitch sees a news report confirming the Federation is already hot on his trail. He needs to blend in. Fast.

Enter Lilo

Lilo is a lonely little girl, mourning her parents, looking for a pet. Stitch plays the role of a “cute little doggie” because it’s a means to an end. At this point, Lilo is just someone to use while he builds a communications device.

Using parts from her toys and a stolen police radio, Stitch contacts his old gang. But Ramthar, now the leader, isn’t thrilled. Still, Stitch sends a signal.

Then he builds an army.

Stitch Goes Full Skynet

Stitch constructs a small robot, sends it to the junkyard to build bigger robots. Soon, he has an army. When Ramthar and crew arrive, Stitch’s robots surround them. Ramthar is furious, but Stitch regains command.

Next, Stitch sets his robotic horde on a nearby town. Everything goes smoothly until a robot targets the hula studio where Lilo is dancing. As it lifts her in its claw, Stitch has a change of heart. He saves her.

From here, the plot begins to resemble the Lilo & Stitch we know today. Sort of.

The Ending That Never Was

In Sanders’ original version, it’s not Captain Gantu who kidnaps Lilo, but Ramthar. And when the Grand Council Woman comes to collect Stitch, Lilo produces a receipt from the humane society.

“I paid a $4 processing fee to adopt him. If you take Stitch, you’re stealing.”

The Grand Council Woman crumples the receipt and says, “I didn’t see it.”

Nani chimes in: “Well, I saw it.”

Then Jumba. Then one of Stitch’s old crew. Then a hula girl. And finally, Pleakley pulls out his CCC badge and says:

“Well, I am Pleakley Grathor, Cultural Contamination Control Agent No. 444. And I saw it.”

Pleakley saves Stitch.

How Roy E. Disney Made Stitch Cuddly

Ultimately, this version of Lilo & Stitch was streamlined. Roy E. Disney believed Stitch shouldn’t be nasty. Just naughty. And not by choice – he was designed that way.

Which is how Stitch became Experiment 626. A misunderstood creation of Jumba the mad scientist, not a hardened criminal with a vendetta.

The rest, as they say, is history.

Ricardo Montalbán’s Lost Role

Here’s a detail that even hardcore Lilo & Stitch fans may not know: Ricardo Montalbán—best known as Mr. Roarke from Fantasy Island and Khan Noonien Singh from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan—was originally cast as the voice of Ramthar, Stitch’s second-in-command in this early version of the film. He had already recorded a significant amount of dialogue before the story was reworked following Roy E. Disney’s guidance. When Stitch evolved from a ruthless galactic outlaw to a misunderstood genetic experiment, Montalbán’s character (and much of the original gang concept) was written out entirely.

Which is kind of wild when you think about it. Wrath of Khan is widely considered the gold standard of Star Trek films. So yes, for a time, Khan himself was supposed to be part of Disney’s weirdest sci-fi comedy.

Stitch’s Legacy (and Why It Still Resonates)

Looking back at Stitch’s original story, it’s wild to think how close we came to getting a very different kind of movie. One where our favorite blue alien was less “ohana means family” and more “I’ll destroy you all.” But that transformation—from outlaw to outcast to ohana—is exactly what makes Lilo & Stitch so special.

So as the live-action version prepares to hit theaters, keep in mind that behind all the cuddly merch and tiki mugs lies one of Disney’s strangest, boldest, and most hard-won reinventions. One that started with a forest monster and became a beloved franchise about found family.

June 26th is officially Stitch Day—so mark your calendar. It’s a good excuse to celebrate just how far this little blue alien has come.

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How “An American Tail” Led to Disney’s “Hocus Pocus”

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Over the last week, I’ve been delving into Witches Run Amok, Shannon Carlin’s oral history of the making of Disney’s Hocus Pocus. This book reveals some fascinating behind-the-scenes stories about the 1993 film that initially bombed at the box office but has since become a cult favorite, even spawning a sequel in 2022 that went on to become the most-watched release in Disney+ history.

But what really caught my eye in this 284-page hardcover wasn’t just the tales of Hocus Pocus’s unlikely rise to fame. Rather, it was the unexpected connections between Hocus Pocus and another beloved film—An American Tail. As it turns out, the two films share a curious origin story, one that begins in the mid-1980s, during the early days of the creative rebirth of Walt Disney Studios under Michael Eisner, Frank Wells, and Jeffrey Katzenberg.

The Birth of An American Tail

Let’s rewind to late 1984/early 1985, a period when Eisner, Wells, and Katzenberg were just getting settled at Disney and were on the hunt for fresh projects that would signal a new era at the studio. During this time, Katzenberg—tasked with revitalizing Disney Feature Animation—began meeting with talent across Hollywood, hoping to find a project that could breathe life into the struggling division.

One such meeting was with a 29-year-old writer and illustrator named David Kirschner. At the time, Kirschner’s biggest credit was illustrating children’s books featuring Muppets and Sesame Street characters, but he had an idea for a new project: a TV special about a mouse emigrating to America, culminating in the mouse’s arrival in New York Harbor on the same day as the dedication of the Statue of Liberty in 1886.

David Kirschner
David Kirschner (IMDb)

Katzenberg saw the patriotic appeal of the concept but ultimately passed on it, as he was focused on finding full-length feature projects for Disney’s animation department. Kirschner, undeterred, took his pitch elsewhere—to none other than Kathleen Kennedy, Steven Spielberg’s production partner. Kennedy was intrigued and invited Kirschner to Spielberg’s annual Fourth of July party to pitch the idea directly to the famed director.

Spielberg immediately saw the potential in Kirschner’s idea, but instead of a TV special, he envisioned a full-length animated feature film. This project would eventually become An American Tail, a tribute of sorts to Spielberg’s own grandfather, Philip Posner, who emigrated from Russia to the United States in the late 19th century. The film’s lead character, Fievel, was even named after Spielberg’s grandfather, whose Yiddish name was also Fievel.

Disney’s Loss Becomes Universal’s Gain

An American Tail went on to become a major success for Universal Pictures, which hadn’t been involved in an animated feature since the release of Pinocchio in Outer Space in 1965. Meanwhile, over at Disney, Eisner and Wells weren’t exactly thrilled that Katzenberg had let such a promising project slip through his fingers.

Not wanting to miss out on any future opportunities with Kirschner, Katzenberg quickly scheduled another meeting with him to discuss any other ideas he might have. And as fate would have it, Kirschner had just written a short story for Muppet Magazine called Halloween House, about a boy who is magically transformed into a cat by a trio of witches.

The Pitch That Sealed the Deal

Knowing Katzenberg could be a tough sell, Kirschner went all out to impress during his pitch. He requested access to the Disney lot 30 minutes early to set the stage for his presentation. When Katzenberg and the Disney development team walked into the conference room, they were greeted by a table covered in candy corn, a cauldron of dry ice fog, and a broom, mop, and vacuum cleaner suspended from the ceiling as if they were flying—evoking the magical world of Halloween House.

Katzenberg was reportedly unimpressed by the theatrical setup, muttering, “Oy, show-and-tell time” as he took his seat. But Kirschner knew exactly how to grab his attention. He started his pitch with the fact that Halloween was a billion-dollar business—a figure that made Katzenberg sit up and take notice. He listened attentively to Kirschner’s pitch, and by the time the meeting was over, Katzenberg was convinced. Halloween House would become Hocus Pocus, and Disney had its next big Halloween film.

A Bit of Hollywood Drama

Interestingly, Kirschner’s success with Hocus Pocus didn’t sit well with his old collaborators. About a year after the film’s release, Kirschner ran into Kathleen Kennedy at an Amblin holiday party, and she wasted no time in expressing her disappointment. According to Kirschner, Kennedy said, “You really hurt Steven.” When Kirschner asked how, she explained that Spielberg and Kennedy had given him his big break with An American Tail, but when he came up with the idea for his next film, he brought it to Disney rather than to them.

Hollywood can be a place where loyalty is valued—or, at least, perceived loyalty. At the same time, this was happening just as Katzenberg was leaving Disney and partnering with Spielberg and David Geffen to launch DreamWorks SKG, which only added to the tension. Loyalty, as Kirschner found out, can be an abstract concept in the entertainment industry.

A Halloween Favorite is Born

Despite its rocky start at the box office in 1993, Hocus Pocus has gone on to become a beloved part of Halloween pop culture. And, as Carlin’s book details, its success helped pave the way for more Disney Halloween-themed projects in the years that followed.

As for why Hocus Pocus was released in July of 1993 instead of during Halloween? That’s a story for another time, but it has something to do with another Halloween-themed project Disney was working on that year—Tim Burton’s The Nightmare Before Christmas—and Katzenberg finding himself in the awkward position of having to choose between keeping Bette Midler or Tim Burton happy.

For more behind-the-scenes stories about Hocus Pocus and other Disney films, be sure to check out Witches Run Amok by Shannon Carlin. It’s a fascinating read for any Disney fan!

And if you love hearing these kinds of behind-the-scenes stories about animation and film history, be sure to check out Fine Tooning with Drew Taylor, where Drew and I dive deep into all things movies, animation, and the creative decisions that shape the films we love. You can find us on your favorite podcast platforms or right here on JimHillMedia.com.

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Film & Movies

How Disney’s “Bambi” led to the creation of Smokey Bear

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When people talk about Disney’s “Bambi,” the scene that they typically cite as being the one from this 1942 film which then scarred them for life is – of course – the moment in this movie where Bambi’s mother gets shot by hunters.

Which is kind of ironic. Given that – if you watch this animated feature today – you’ll see that a lot of this ruined-my-childhood scene actually happens off-camera. I mean, you hear the rifle shot that takes down Bambi’s Mom. But you don’t actually see that Mama Deer get clipped.

Now for the scariest part of that movie that you actually see on-camera … Hands down, that has to be the forest fire sequence in “Bambi.” As the grown-up Bambi & his bride, Faline, desperately race through those woods, trying to find a path to safety as literally everything around them is ablaze … That sequence is literally nightmare fuel.

Source: Economist.com

Mind you, the artists at Walt Disney Animation Studios had lots of inspiration for the forest fire sequence in “Bambi.” You see, in a typical year, the United States experiences – due to either natural phenomenon like lightning strikes or human carelessness – 100 forest fires. Whereas in 1940 (i.e., the year that Disney Studios began working in earnest of a movie version of Felix Salten’s best-selling movie), America found itself battling a record 360 forest fires.

Which greatly concerned the U.S. Forest Service. But not for the reason you might think.

Protecting the Forest for World War II

I mean, yes. Sure. Officials over in the Agricultural Department (That’s the arm of the U.S. government that manages the Forest Service) were obviously concerned about the impact that this record number of forest fires in 1940 had had on citizens. Not to mention all of the wildlife habitat that was now lost.

But to be honest, what really concerned government officials was those hundreds of thousands of acres of raw timber that had been consumed by these blazes. You see, by 1940, the world was on the cusp of the next world war. A conflict that the U.S. would inevitably  be pulled into. And all that now-lost timber? It could have been used to fuel the U.S. war machine.

So with this in mind (and U.S. government officials now seeing an urgent need to preserve & protect this precious resource) … Which is why – in 1942 (just a few months after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor) – the U.S. Forest Service rolls out its first-ever forest fire prevention program.

Which – given that this was the early days of World War II – the slogan that the U.S. Forest Service initially chose for its forest fire prevention program is very in that era’s we’re-all-in-this-together / so-let’s-do-what-we-can-to-help-America’s war-effort esthetic – made a direct appeal to all those folks who were taking part in scrap metal drives: “Forest Defense is National Defense.”

Source: Northwestern

And the poster that the U.S. Forest Service had created to support this campaign? … Well, it was well-meaning as well.  It was done in the WPA style and showed men out in the forest, wielding shovels to ditch a ditch. They were trying to construct a fire break, which would then supposedly slow the forest fire that was directly behind them.

But the downside was … That “Forest Defense is National Defense” slogan – along with that poster which the U.S. Forest Service had created to support their new forest fire prevention program didn’t exactly capture America’s attention.

I mean, it was the War Years after all. A lot was going in the country at that time. But long story short: the U.S. Forest Service’s first attempt at launching a successful forest fire prevention program sank without a trace.

So what do you do in a situation like this? You regroup. You try something different.

Disney & Bambi to the Rescue

And within the U.S. government, the thinking now was “Well, what if we got a celebrity to serve as the spokesman for our new forest fire prevention program? Maybe that would then grab the public’s attention.”

The only problem was … Well, again, these are the War Years. And a lot of that era’s A-listers (people like Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gable, even Mel Brooks) had already enlisted. So there weren’t really a lot of big-name celebrities to choose from.

But then some enterprising official at the U.S. Forest Service came up with an interesting idea. He supposedly said “Hey, have you seen that new Disney movie? You know, the one with the deer? That movie has a forest fire in it. Maybe we should go talk with Walt Disney? Maybe he has some ideas about how we can better capture the public’s attention when it comes to our new forest fire prevention program?”

And it turns Walt did have an idea. Which was to use this government initiative as a way to cross-promote Disney Studio’s latest full-length animated feature, “Bambi.” Which been first released to theaters in August of 1942.

So Walt had artists at Disney Studio work up a poster that featured the grown-up versions of Bambi the Deer, Thumper the Rabbit & Flower the Skunk. As this trio stood in some tall grasses, they looked imploring out at whoever was standing in front of this poster. Above them was a piece of text that read “Please Mister, Don’t Be Careless.” And below these three cartoon characters was an additional line that read “Prevent Forest Fires. Greater Danger Than Ever!”

Source: USDA

According to folks I’ve spoken with at Disney’s Corporate Archives, this “Bambi” -based promotional campaign for the U.S. Forest Service’s forest fire prevention campaign was a huge success. So much so that – as 1943 drew to a close – this division of the Department of Agriculture reportedly reached out to Walt to see if he’d be willing to let the U.S. Forest Service continue to use these cartoon characters to help raise the public’s awareness of fire safety.

Walt – for reasons known only to Mr. Disney – declined. Some have suggested that — because “Bambi” had actually lost money during its initial theatrical release in North America – that Walt was now looking to put that project behind him. And if there were posters plastered all over the place that then used the “Bambi” characters that then promoted the U.S.’s forest fire prevention efforts … Well, it would then be far harder for Mr. Disney to put this particular animated feature in the rear view mirror.

Introducing Smokey Bear

Long story short: Walt said “No” when it came to reusing the “Bambi” characters to promote the U.S. Forest Service’s forest fire prevention program. But given how successful the previous cartoon-based promotional campaign had been … Well, some enterprising employee at the Department of Agriculture reportedly said “Why don’t we come up with a cartoon character of our own?”

So – for the Summer of 1944 – the U.S. Forest Service (with the help of the Ad Council and the National Association of State Foresters) came up with a character to help promote the prevention of forest fires. And his name is Smokey Bear.

Now a lot of thought had gone into Smokey’s creation. Right from the get-go, it was decided that he would be an American black bear (NOT a brown bear or a grizzly). To make this character seem approachable, Smokey was outfitted with a ranger’s hat. He also wore a pair of blue jeans & carried a bucket.

As for his debut poster, Smokey was depicted as pouring water over a still-smoldering campfire. And below this cartoon character was printed Smokey’s initial catchphrase. Which was “Care will prevent 9 out of 10 forest fires!”

Source: NPR

Which makes me think that this slogan was written by the very advertising executive who wrote “Four out of five dentists recommend sugarless gum for their patients who chew gum.”

Anyway … By the Summer of 1947, Smokey got a brand-new slogan. The one that he uses even today. Which is “Only YOU can prevent forest fires.”

The Real Smokey Bear

Now where this gets interesting is – in the Summer of 1950 – there was a terrible forest fire up in the Capitan Mountains of New Mexico. And over the course of this blaze, a bear cub climbed high up into a tree to try & escape those flames.

Firefighters were finally able to rescue that cub. But he was so badly injured in that fire that he was shipped off to the National Zoo in Washington, D.C. and nursed back to health. And since this bear really couldn’t be released back in the wild at this point, he was then put on exhibit.

And what does this bear’s keepers decide to call him? You guessed it: Smokey.

Source: USDA

And due to all the news coverage that this orphaned bear got, he eventually became the living symbol of the U.S. Forest Service’s forest fire prevention program. Which then meant that this particular Smokey Bear got hit with a ton of fan mail. So much so that the National Zoo in Washington D.C. wound up with its own Zip Code.

“Smokey the Bear” Hit Song

And on the heels of a really-for-real Smokey Bear taking up residence in our nation’s capital, Steve Nelson & Jack Rollins decide to write a song that shined a spotlight on this fire-fightin’ bruin. Here’s the opening stanza:

With a ranger’s hat and shovel and a pair of dungarees,
You will find him in the forest always sniffin’ at the breeze,
People stop and pay attention when he tells them to beware
Because everybody knows that he’s the fire-preventin’ bear

Believe or not, even with lyrics like these, “Smokey the Bear” briefly topped the Country charts in the Summer of 1950. Thanks to a version of this song that was recorded by Gene Autry, the Singing Cowboy.

By the way, it was this song that started all of the confusion in regards to Smokey Bear’s now. You see, Nelson & Rollins – because they need the lyrics of their song to scan properly – opted to call this fire-fightin’-bruin Smokey THE Bear. Rather than Smokey Bear. Which has been this cartoon character’s official name since the U.S. Forest Service first introduced him back in 1944.

“The Ballad of Smokey the Bear”

Further complicating this issue was “The Ballad of Smokey the Bear,” which was a stop-motion animated special that debuted on NBC in late November of 1966. Produced by Rankin-Bass as a follow-up to their hugely popular “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer” (which premiered on the Peacock Network in December of 1964) … This hour-long TV show also put a “THE” in the middle of Smokey Bear’s name because the folks at Rankin-Bass thought his name sounded better that way.

And speaking of animation … Disney’s “Bambi” made a brief return to the promotional campaign for the U.S. Forest Service’s forest fire prevention program in the late 1980s. This was because the Company’s home entertainment division had decided to release this full-length animated feature on VHS.

What’s kind of interesting, though, is the language used on the “Bambi” poster is a wee different than the language that’s used on Smokey’s poster. It reads “Protect Our Forest Friends. Only You Can Prevent Wildfires.” NOT “Forest Fires.”

Anyway, that’s how Disney’s “Bambi” led to the creation of Smokey Bear. Thanks for bearin’ with me as I clawed my way through this grizzly tale.

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