In the final installment of this three part series, Disney Legend Joyce Carlson talks some more about her time at WED. In these installments, I am reprinting the very first interview I did with Joyce Carlson in 1998. I also had the pleasure at the DISNEYANA 2000 convention which was dedicated to IT’S A SMALL WORLD to host a special presentation for conventioners about the creation of that attraction and as a surprise I invited Joyce to appear. I had previously arranged for Joyce to sign in gold ink a black and white photo of Walt riding through the attraction to give to all of those who attended. The interview was videotaped and concentrated primarily on IT’S A SMALL WORLD and perhaps one of these days if there is any interest, I should consider making copies available for sale to readers of JimHillMedia.
Jim: Did you get to go to the World’s Fair in 1964?
Joyce: Oh yeah, it was hot. Well, uh, everybody was going over from the main studio and we were the ones that worked on all the shows and put them together, Small World and y’know, all the shows, but everyone else was going over to New York and Walt would send them there for two to three days and they didn’t have anything to do with it, while we were the ones working on the shows. So Mary finally talked to Walt and said “their noses are being bent and you better send them over” So we got to go to New York for ten days. It was great. They put us in Queens, right by the Shay Stadium and Mary Blair lived out in Long Island so we used to go out and visit her. She would take us out there by the water and we had a grand time. We were there ten days and Walt gave us three hundred dollars. Boy, that was quite a bit in ’64. So, uh, I even had money when I came back.
Jim: What was the guests’ reaction of these rides?
Joyce: We had our VIP badges and we were the group tour girls and we’d see these lines of people waiting for Small World or alot of the shows and I’d want to go by quickly because it’s hot and little kids are crying and they would walk us right into the shows. Course, we had to fill out a folder every day, what shows we saw and what we went on and what we thought was a good idea, if we had any ideas for them, and Walt would read that book when we brought it home. That’s what we did every day and we would have to walk by all the guests waiting in line. It was just terrible. That was the only thing that bothered me. But, oh, we saw all the shows. That was great.
Jim: Most of these shows were brought back to Disneyland, were you involved in installing them into Disneyland?
Joyce: When we brought back Small World, we repainted, freshened it up and put it back in the show at Disneyland. That’s what we did, we put it back in. Most of the shows were put back in.
Jim: After the World’s Fair, what projects were you assigned to?
Joyce: Well, let’s see, I used to do alot of inking for Marc Davis for some of the shows that were coming into Disneyland and for Claude Coates, I’d do alot of inking. So the inking experiences had come in handy for some of the set pieces.
Jim: So this would have been Pirates and Haunted Mansion?
Joyce: Yes, that’s what I worked on, then Maggie came over and asked if I’d like to move to Florida and I said “sure” so I went over there in ’80. I was there for over a year and had a group of artists doing the toys for Small World for Tokyo. Then we finished and it happens to be some of the Japanese boys here today, that worked with me on the toys,they’re up in management now (laughs).
Jim: Did you work on all the Small World attractions?
Joyce: Disneyland, there was one brought from New York and then the one for Florida, I worked in Glendale for that one. And then, or course, Japan picked up our show here to put into Tokyo Disneyland
Jim: Aren’t there some differences in each Small World attractions?
Joyce: The one in Paris is a little different, it’s got new scenes, backgrounds, different toys and all. So, it is an entirely different show than the one here in Florida.
Jim: What type of qualities do you think an Imaginer should have?
Joyce: You’d have to be thinking of new ideas and if there’s a new project coming up, sit down and discuss alot of new ideas and who you’re going to work with and who can create this or that and put the show together, y’know. Alot of talent, get them going and let them share alot of ideas and use the best ones. That was what Walt would do.
Jim: Do you do alot of reading?
Joyce: I don’t read so much any more, but if there’s a certain project coming up, I’ll read about it and learn about what they want me to do. Like, uh, “America Sings.” I wish we had that show here in Florida. That was a good show.
Jim: What did you like about “America Sings?”
Joyce: I did all the hats, Seventy two hats, then my boss says “they’re gonna make another set of hats” and I say “there goes another year!” (laughs)
Jim: Some of those critters ended up in Splash Mountain. Are they wearing your hats?
Joyce: Some are, I guess. But they shouldn’t be out in the rain, because they’re just glue and water. They’ll go limp as an old rag. But the hats were all made of felt, glue and water and Marc Davis was the one that sketched them all and I had to paint them. You go down to California to get one of these hoods, where they make hats. You can’t get the color of the hood, because Marc dreams up these colors, y’know. Real nice, so I had to mix the colors. After they were hard and dried, I had like a bake shop outside the door and put them out there like cement. So I’d mix the colors, paint the hats, put the brim and crown together and go to Pick and Save to get all these flowers to put on the hats and Marc just loved them.
Shirley Temple even came through and she was the most wonderful person. She made you feel as if you’d known her for 100 years. She’d go over and pick up one of the straw hat’s I’d finished and she put it on her head and said “this reminds me of a neighbor when I was a little girl, who used to wear a hat like this.” And I thought “Oh, that’s cute” didn’t go with her dress at all, but she looked cute in it. She came back twice in one year and she was terrific. You just felt so at ease. But they introduced her as “Shirley Black” and I knew it was Shirley Temple. But anyway, she came back twice to look at the hats again, she was wonderful. I had some fond memories of the day I met her.
Jim: Did you have any project that you really liked or you found exceptionally difficult?
Joyce: Well, the one I really liked was Small World with Rolly Crump and Mary Blair. We started off using rubber bands with the dolls. It was primitive, but we used sheer style. Then, when we brought them back to Disneyland, we fixed them up a little better and put motors inside and improved the style. I liked Small World, all those toys.
Jim: What was Mary Blair really like?
Joyce: Oh she was wonderful, what a talent. I learned so much from her. She would let you design an animal for a certain scene, like in Africa for Small World, and would say “that’s great, we’ll use that and work it out.” But she worked flat, she didn’t have allot of dimension and she couldn’t do the facade at all. We’d just cut up alot of Styrofoam for her and she’d play around with it. Her paintings are all flat. She started to learn a little dimension toward the last, y’know. But her work is charming. I only have one book of hers, the Little Golden Book children’s book that she did. That’s what we used to help us understand her design afterwards. She was a wonderful talent.
Jim: I had heard you inked the little Mickey for one of the Ingersoll watches.
Joyce: The watch changed so over the years. They’ve got so many of them, but then, at that time, they wanted this little Mickey. Of course they would always give me the little stuff to ink. No wonder I can’t see today. But, I inked the Mickey. My boss said it was for Walt and I thought “Why’d you say that?! Now my lines are going to be all wiggly” and held my breath. But they used that Mickey on one of the Ingersoll watches.
Q: Was Walt a workaholic?
Joyce: Workaholic? Yeah, he was a workaholic. He was always coming up with ideas and working with the animators and people like Mary. Yeah, I could see him and Mary walking around the studio discussing a feature and Mary would do all the backgrounds at that time, that was before Small World. But he was a workaholic, alot of ideas he worked with the animators and the storymen……workaholic? Yes! (laughs).
Jim: Did you ever see Walt grumpy?
Joyce: Yes, I did. In our model shop at WED, he’d have a meeting and we’d have our desks all around the place and the model in the middle of the room. He was having a meeting with the big boys. Y’know, he was quite a smoker, but anyway, when he’d come into a room, you could hear him coughing and once you heard that, you’d know to be on your toes and best behavior because here he comes! (laughs)
But anyway, he’d come in and all the “yes” men would be around him and so he’d stand there and he was telling them what he wanted and if they weren’t agreeing or being as enthusiastic as he was or something, his voice got louder and louder and he wasn’t happy with them. So, all of a sudden, they disappeared but, uh, he got his way, I’m sure (laughs).
But, that’s the only time I ever saw him grumpy.
Jim: Thank you, Joyce.
Interviews are an important part of Disney and animation history although it is always important to remember that the interviewee may be mistaken about dates or sequence of events or may have been privy to only part of a project. If an interviewer dropped by your house today wanting to talk to you about what you ate for lunch twenty years ago or what was the favorite color of socks worn by your best friend in first grade, would you be able to share that information accurately if at all? However, interviews often give an additional piece of the puzzle or a different perspective that help us better understand the bigger picture. I am very glad that people like Michael Barrier recorded interviews with animators for decades. Michael Barrier’s FUNNYWORLD was the inspiration for many of us who got involved with animation history and I am very excited that he has established his own website (www.michaelbarrier.com) where he will be including some of the interviews he did in preparation for his outstanding but poorly publicized history of animation. Those readers who are Disney fans will especially enjoy the interview with David Hand, the supervising director of SNOW WHITE and BAMBI, which is more interesting and more revealing that Hand’s own book published in 1986, MEMOIRS.