Podcast
Epcot’s Future World in 2011: Lost Concepts and Disney What-Ifs
Step back in time to late 2011 for a live, nostalgic walk-through of Epcot with theme park experts Len Testa and Jim Hill. In this classic episode, the duo explores the transition spaces of Future World and the rich cultural details of World Showcase, peeling back the layers of Disney history to uncover fascinating “what-if” concepts, abandoned ride designs, and the corporate sponsorship struggles that shaped the park we know today. From the monolithic slabs of Leave a Legacy to forgotten pavilions and unbuilt roller coasters, this casual stroll offers a masterclass in Disney Imagineering history.
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Epcot’s Future World in 2011: Lost Concepts and Disney What-Ifs Transcript
Len Testa: Hi, this is Len Testa in Epcot with Jim Hill. We’re doing another episode of our unofficial guide Disney Dish with Jim Hill podcast. It’s a beautiful sunny day in Orlando. It’s about 75 degrees outside. Sun is shining. We’re getting ready to walk through Future World Plaza, the very beginning, the very entrance of Epcot. You guys can hear some background music. Yeah, that’s beautiful. Epcot’s my favorite park, Jim. How are you doing today?
Jim Hill: I’m in Epcot. I meant to share your enthusiasm for this park. I love this park. It’s the world’s greatest theme park, And plus we’ve got food and wine going on here, too.
Len Testa: All right, that helps. Liquor definitely helps Epcot. All right, so we’re going to walk through the plaza here. And as we go through, we’re coming up on, we just got past the security entrance, which is nice. It’s actually such a slow day here that they’re not doing a… They’re just kind of letting people pass. So we’re walking up now, we’re passing the stone monoliths, the Libid legacy tiles. If you ever want to have some fun, ask Sam Genoway what he thinks of these things.
Jim Hill: I can imagine. I can imagine. Now these are… This is honestly probably the last project that Imagineer John Hench worked on for the company. I know the joke, know, the effective… The faces here are everyone who died walking around World Showcase Lagoon. But it’s honestly not what John was shooting for. The idea was this was going to be… This is a mythic structure. This is like, you know, Disney’s Stonehenge that, you know, and you have this iconic giant, you know, golf ball, you know, here at your entrance to the park. And it just, he wanted, it just seemed very sterile to him, the space, you know, and it’s so-
Len Testa: So wait, so it was sterile, but his idea of getting rid of sterility is adding monolithic slabs of rock. How about a plant? Does anybody have a fern?
Jim Hill: Well, the idea- The idea is to break up the structure. I mean, think about it. You know, how long ago was it when you entered the park here and they had the three pieces of acrylic sticking up out of the right, right.
Len Testa: Yeah, that wasn’t any better. But mean seriously, we’ve walked from the entrance to almost to the base of Spaceship Earth. Has anyone seen a plant?
Jim Hill: In the future, Jim, there will be no foliage. No, mean, if you look at the cobblestone, what they did here, again, the idea is to put natural, I mean, stone, natural stone and stone-like shapes to frame Spaceship Earth, to take some of the onus off of, again, the giant tinfoil ball, you know?
Len Testa: Is that what it is? Because I never got that. Yeah. I do see. So we’re at the base of the fountain that’s in front of Spaceship Earth. And to Jim’s point, if you look at the ring on the inside of the… of fountain. You guys can hear the fountain in the background. But the fountain ring is essentially made of raised cobblestones, like the kind of cobblestones you’d see in the street. It’s different colors and some of them are actually sticking up higher. So they’re actually not wet and because they’re not wet, they’re a different color, a lighter shade than the ones that are getting wet. So you’ve got sort of these deep mud browns, you’ve got some of these really light beige colors. It’s all, it all works out pretty well. But I gotta tell you, James, mean, looking back over this, mean, between here and the Monorail station, there are sort of trees on either side, but this place could do with some grass.
Jim Hill: No, no, absolutely. And here, here is the thing. this was supposed to exist for 25 years. In fact, you remember buying the LEVA legacy tiles. I have one. Okay. But you if you look at the language there, it’s not into perpetuity. They will be here. Your face will be on that slab for 25 years and then they can resell the space. But to be honest, Disney is looking for outs. They want to tear it out. They know it doesn’t work. but 25 years, I mean, they’ve got at least another 15. Oh, yes. Oh, no, they got more than that. You know, I mean, so was it 25? Is it 25 years from the date of the last sale? There you go. Oh, my God. So that was like well into let’s put this way, my daughter and I have one. that’s. So she made her first trip when she was five, so they’ve got at least another 17 years of that?
Len Testa: Really?
Jim Hill: Yeah, absolutely. Killing me, killing me. No, it’s killing them because it was like, again, this is the curse of a wonderful model and then when you make it full size, something doesn’t work.
Len Testa: Yeah, that’s the thing. We were talking about this earlier, but I mean, I get the idea of something like Stonehenge. as what you’re going for it it probably work on paper it doesn’t work in three d.
Jim Hill: You know, they found out the hardware, were literally three to six months into the first install of the little metal things, and they had a child brought into the first aid who had laid on the wall and had burned all the way up their back. Seriously. Yeah, I bet. Oh, yeah, it’s got to be incredibly… I mean, it’s metal in the Florida sun. What are you expecting? No, that’s exactly it. at all angles, it became a boondog. You know what they could do? They could rotate the the stones they could lie them flat right and it could be like japanese cooking but but the the imprints when they sear the meat it’s your face on the meat. So instead of Benny Hottie, you’re cooking on top of Ben Hanna.
Len Testa: That’s right, that’s right. Lovely wife, Sari. Lovely people, lovely. They’re from Brooklyn. They’re So we’re walking past Spaceship Earth, still one my favorite attractions of all time. Storytelling superb. What do think about the new scene that went in a couple years ago?
Jim Hill: First of all, it’s kind of interesting that they found the space to do that. But at the same time, the computer room, you have to acknowledge that. Where we are, In fact, this is kind of the monkey in the back of both Epcot, the future world section of Epcot, as well as Tomorrowland, because the future obviously keeps moving forward. you know, the story of communication, circa 1982, know, yeah, computers, lovely. And now, mean, think about it, know, or just, you know, what you’re carrying in your hand to record the show probably has more electronic power to it than the original, you know, Mr. Lincoln figure.
Len Testa: Alright. It probably does. So I’m walking around with a little handheld digital recorder. So that’s, you know, they’ll have to circle back. In fact, I know that there’s language built into the contracts here at Future World. In fact, that’s a lot of reason that many of the sponsors bailed out after a while. They were under, as part of their sponsorship agreement, every 10 years they had to freshen their pavilions. I mean, literally, you know, you had to agree to bring in new exhibits, new technologies. And you know, there was subsequent language, the effect of you had to do smaller retrofits on top of that.
Jim Hill: Right. So it wasn’t just a big bang every 10 years.
Len Testa: No, no. And this just for a lot of people became an issue. It’s like, I don’t know if I want to be involved in Epcot, where it’s a it’s a money pit.
Jim Hill: Yeah, or it’s well, it’s it’s an expense that you have you have no choice, right?
Len Testa: Yeah, so whether it works or not, but this was you know from day one when they started to go out and chase sponsors for Epcot or chase countries for Epcot They never got the response they anticipated and it was because of the was it because the concept or was it because of the the contract terms?
Jim Hill: Actually, it’s it’s something entirely different that without a charismatic Walt Disney out front to sell it.
Len Testa: Yeah, mean just the problem is that, you know, this is a part of the Disney history that people really don’t understand, but Walt built up an organization that he had amazing lieutenants. mean, people he could turn to and go do this, but they were lieutenants. They weren’t leaders. And then when Walt died, all of these people who were wonderful foot soldiers for him got promoted to leadership positions and they couldn’t go. Some of them couldn’t lead. Yeah. mean, and more to the point, they couldn’t go to a GM. I think what Marty Sklar tells this wonderful story about trying to sell the sponsorship of Space Mountain to RCA. Eventually they did, right? But here’s the thing, was Walt Disney who figured out they were going into the meeting and they were at RCA pitching the early early concept for it and so Walt was at one end of the table or Marty was one end of the table with the art and it’s a giant lengthy table and it’s eventually, Walt’s like The guy who makes decision is at the other end of the table. Bring the artwork down to the guy. Don’t do the 300 VPs between you and the guy who makes the decision. But a Walt knew how to do that. A Walt knew who was the decision maker in the room. Get me there. And the problem was with Epcot. It was meeting after meeting after meeting with sponsors that when they came in, they insisted on their narrative. mean, if you think about, for example, Country Bear Jamboree. The future of energy and add solar gonna do anything with solar. Leave me alone. It’s petrochemical.
Len Testa: That’s right, you know. So we’re just, we’re walking, we’re in the middle of an invention’s plaza right now. We’ve got our future world plaza. We’ve got, we’re by the tipboard. The interesting thing about the tipboard now, Jim, it’s gone from being, remember that sort of carnival lighting theme? It’s actually high res digital displays now. And apparently they’ve got a Twitter feed set up now. So if you follow the, if you follow a hashtag, and I think it’s 2011FW, something like that, Epcot. I’ll get you the hashtag. But if you follow that, it’ll actually tweet out what the current wait times are. The interesting thing though about the display gym, I don’t know if it’s just that we’re getting old, the words to describe each of the attractions are maybe an inch high. And you’re in the Florida sun, so you really have to stand literally next to the thing to actually read them. But I give them credit for trying. Med props for trying. Hey, you wanna walk into into InnoVentions, see what’s going on there?
Jim Hill: InnoVentions, by the way, in case anyone doesn’t know, is a blend of two words, Inventions and InnoVentions. And, you know, more to the point, this is… For lack of a better term, this… this whole area, it was born. Michael Eisner went to the Consumer Electronics Show.
Len Testa: Oh yeah, has a Total Consumer Electronics Show vibe to it.
Jim Hill: He came home, he went off to one of them, and they were at that point looking to what they were going to do with CommuniCorps. And it’s like, have you seen this? Let’s do this. Let’s do this. It’s fresh.
Len Testa: So we’re walking by Where’s the Fire, which is a game where you play, it’s a fire safety game, you look for things like exposed wiring inside a house. It’s a lot of fun. IBM Smarter Planet display coming up. We’ve got computers. Actually, this is a lot like, I would say that the display here is a lot like IBM itself. What the hell do they do? I mean, didn’t they used to build hardware? But now what does IBM do these days?
Jim Hill: I would imagine even the board of directors is asking that question. I think if ever there was a symbol of IBM now, this is it. I kind of sort of get it, but if I was pressed to say… these are the goals 123 you wouldn’t do it and just but the interesting thing you walk through this space and again it’s different deal than a different deal than a different deal. So there’s no visual harmony. There’s, if anything, exhibits, you know, fight visually to hold your attention.
Len Testa: It’s true. Now we’re walking past another great piggy bank adventure. I actually like this. This is pretty good, but they’ve, you notice they’ve put up a wall around this now. So before there used to be a small sort of almost like velvet rope type things that would keep you out. Now they’ve got a, looks like a six foot high wall around one end of it. But the piggy bank adventure actually is a lot of fun. It’s great. for kids under 12.
Jim Hill: the wall actually went up because, again, there is so much stuff in here that mom and dad would lose track of children that would wander off. so while you’re facing the screen trying to figure out with Johnny what’s going on, little Sally would wander off to the next exhibit. And eventually security made an issue of it and that’s what we are today.
Len Testa: That makes sense. So we’re now walking past a series of, looks like, video games for Disney Pixar films and there’s a bunch of those as well. You know, again.
Jim Hill: Or as I like to call this, this is the idea for Disney Quest. Really, wouldn’t they just… I mean, look at how many people are here. There’s one, two, three, five… There’s probably more people here than in House of Inventions right now. They could charge 20 bucks for this, you could stay all day, it’s air-conditioned. I don’t know, Jim. Sounds like a business on old me. Oh, there you go. That key phrase again, air-conditioned in Florida.
Len Testa: Yeah, it’s actually a nice day outside, too, but it’s not terribly crowded. What is this? Disney Rewards Photo Place. Ah, this is the character greeting for Disney guests. Disney Visa card holders. I get it. Alright, this is the… we’re passing back by the other side of… where’s the fire? Where they… people get to touch a real fire engine. And there’s a quick fire drill thing going on. I don’t know, do you come to Disney World to participate in fire drills?
Jim Hill: Well, you know, in a weird sort of way, I don’t necessarily have a problem with it. If a kid takes away from a vacation… how to survive a fire, that’s a good thing.
Len Testa: I’m good with it too. you know what think would be more realistic here? Is if they let one family member actually set the fire. I think that would be a better idea. Wanna walk through the other side of interventions? Let’s keep going. It’s air conditioned and we’re walking. We’re already moving in that direction anyway. Again, this is… This was what makes this place tough. is just keeping it fresh, just keeping it, you know. Right, so some of the ideas are very good. When done right, storm struck over in Innoventions East, which we’ll talk about. Very good attraction. I do like the piggy bank adventure, guys, if you’re listening and you haven’t been to piggy bank adventure, go ahead and try it. I think that’s good. there’s the IBM thing. Actually, I never understood, because they had a video game here too, right? Remember you used to walk up on an elevated stage over to the left? I never really got what the game was either. Maybe I’m just old. Nah, let’s play MyBM.
Jim Hill: But that’s the other issue. They would bring these guys in to Glendale, they’d show them the prototype in a warehouse, and it’s like, oh my god, this is gonna wonderful, and yes, of course, it’ll sound good. Not realizing that three equally loud, colorful things will be in front of it back to it, to either side.
Len Testa: Right, in isolation it all makes sense, but when put together. The sum is less than the, the whole is less than sum of its parts. Alright, so now we’re back out in the sun, we’re in Future World West. To our left is the Imagination Pavilion, straight ahead is the Land Pavilion. Let’s head to the right and go to the seas. How do you feel about the seas, Jim?
Jim Hill: I think… You’re pro water? Me like water. This is actually, as far as retrofits go, is probably one of the more charming ones in Epcot. The interesting thing is they did… For quite some time, they had the Little Mermaid themed redo. A Little Mermaid themed ride? It’ll never work, Well, it was more the effect of… Next thing you’re going tell me is they’ve only got money for five scenes in the ride and then I I I I I didn’t say that he did No, it was more to the effect of is Ariel an effective character to do education with and in the end what they decided was that you know Ariel has her fan base, but you know when you look at Nemo and more to the you know the character of Mr. Ray you already have you know a an educational character, but you know The interesting thing is even this version of the ride, the original version wasn’t what they planned.
Len Testa: Wait, the original version of the C’s ride with Nemo? Or the original, the Deluge?
Jim Hill: Yeah, mean literally this was going to be an epic ride through attraction. fact, at one point as you’re in your introductory scene, the wall was going to split open and a 20 foot tall figure of Poseidon was going to… But again, 20 foot tall AA figure who was literally going to swing his Trident and open the sea for you when there was going to be a bubble vehicle that you rode through and explained the tiny ecosystem. And only then after Trident had deemed you worthy that you understood about the sea, you then allowed in the sea base Alpha. cool. Yeah, mean, the Omni Movers, the little taste of what you do with the Omni Movers is literally, that’s a fourth. you know maybe a fifth of the amount of right track they were initially going to do. But no, this became the franchise that worked here. It kind of makes sense. this was, mean we’re talking, Ariel was going to go in here as late as 2003. But that was part of the Project Gemini project, where literally you were going to gut Spaceship Earth, you were to put the time racer attraction in there, you were going to put the rainforest out in of the land and you were going to have the coaster that zoomed through the tree tops of the rainforest. I this would have been green and lush and much more character friendly. And this, don’t get me wrong, the work they’ve done here is good. I again, think Merm Nemo, for all of it having piggybacked on the Nemo submarine voyage for Disneyland, is still an effective and fun attraction. They move people through, there’s rarely a wait. I mean, there’s a wait when it opened, but now, mean, it’s, you know, walk on five minutes most of the time. No, that’s it exactly. Are there any plans for a coral reef?
Jim Hill: Every restaurant at Walt Disney World now is in play. You know, I mean, it just, it’s kind of, it’s just the age we’re facing. In fact, remind me, I was talking with a friend about the change on the… the reservation thing they’re about to do where you you know how you can make multiple reservations with a credit card?
Len Testa: yeah they’re actually I think they’re cutting back on that now where you you you can’t well they’re about to put a ten dollar hold fee and if you don’t show really?
Jim Hill: yeah I mean literally last night I got called about that so that’s you know they’re gonna creep that out like Sometime between now and November if I’m understanding correctly so roughly between now and the time the podcast comes out We should start seeing version one of that come out That’s a 10 bucks. I’ll have one info. We want that our one. No one’s gonna make reservations anymore The problem is that you’ve got all these people who have figured out how to game the system. Yeah, I mean the effect of what they figured is that all the reservations have to be under a name. For example if I make a reservation to do James Hill and then I make another reservation at a different restaurant at Jim Hill and then another reservation under Jimmy Hill. You can hold three different reservations and walk into a park and decide where you want to go. And the computer system still accepts those. So now it’s like, and what they’re finding is they have a no show rate that can vary from 25 to 40%.
Len Testa: Oh yeah, yeah. So during off season, it’s huge. During peak season, it’s like 5%. We’re walking, by the way, for those of you listening and noticing the change in background noise, we’ve just walked the back entrance of the CIS Pavilion. So we’re in C Base Alpha right now and we’re walking through the gift shop. When this initially opened, when it was United Technologies… By way, that’s the only thing I know about United Technologies is that they once sponsored C Base Alpha.
Jim Hill: Well, it was definitely kind of a difficult shoehorn. They were the ones that were willing to come in. But did you have any idea before then what they did as an organization? mean, was like Amalgamated Industries Incorporated. They were… They did helicopters… Really? Yes. I mean, it was really not a great fit. But it got this place open. I mean, and that… know, that… They were really sweating.
Len Testa: They were sweating in terms of getting sponsors for this thing? Because this is huge!
Jim Hill: They struggled everywhere to get sponsors for this thing. I mean, for example, one… the windows of Black Pavilion. They thought, oh, we’re going to have no problem. We’re going to have insurance companies. We’re going to have pharmaceutical companies. You know, we’ll get this locked. And it took them years to get med length. Wow. So we’re up on the second floor now of CBCL. This place is incredibly noisy. It’s way noisier than I thought it would be. So we’re coming up on the manatee display. Manatees, of course. What was the thing about manatees? nature’s tofu or something like that? Is the manatee out?
Len Testa: don’t see the manatee but I could be blind. you were a Florida boater, their nature’s speed bumps.
Jim Hill: They are the sweetest creatures though. I had a cousin who worked at SeaWorld. In fact, he left SeaWorld to come do large animals for Disney’s Animal Kingdom. Please don’t make the joke that him being my cousin, he had lots of experience with large animals. But I remember one day, he takes me backstage and it’s like they have this… this pool that casted me maybe 30 feet across and ridiculously see green water that you can’t see him but there were three gray lumps and he like he hands me a head of lettuce and just put it under the water and it’s like okay and the lump drifts over to you and it’s like they have you know I’m now feeding amenity and they have the softest mouth they just this and in fact it was that you just pet them they’re they’re bristly but they’re really sweet gentle creatures that unfortunately in our age of jet skis and you know you know, just they can’t make it.
Len Testa: Yeah, it’s from a different time.
Jim Hill: Well, the weird thing is that if you talk with the people in animal collection at SeaWorld, there’s actually a hard number that everybody has agreed to that when they go out and do the count, you know, in Florida, and amenities have drifted below that number, it’s an agreed upon number that’s okay, they are now at a non-survival point, and we go out and collect. And, you know, they’re gonna try to save the species that way. really? So, yeah, I mean. So now we’re walking back in the, so on the second floor of the observatory, we’re walking now down into the tunnel where we’ve got glass windows on either side of us and we see lots and lots of fishes swimming by on the other side. So on the left hand side we’ve got dolphin, on the right hand side lots of little fish. And again, Jim, everywhere we go we see animals. Them’s good eating. I can’t believe how noisy it is here.
Jim Hill: Yeah, well. Again, because I have family that worked this. have a great story to share about the dolphins here were psychotic.
Len Testa: The dolphins were psychotic here?
Jim Hill: Well, the thing… We’re not talking about like Mercury and Mars back when he was on cocaine, right?
Len Testa: No, as in there are, if you’ll notice, are rays in the water here. Right, stingrays, right? Okay.
Jim Hill: And the dolphins got so bored here that they actually, invented a game. And just above the water here there are steel rails, support rails. And what the dolphins figured out what they could do is that they came up under a ray fast enough and they could flip it out of the water onto the steel. And it was like literally the people would be working here they’d see and a ray would come out and it’s being dangling. It’s like crap. And have to go out and fix it. It was like Jimmy go get the rays. Yeah, but it was was literally the dolphins were entertaining themselves because they were so bored. and it would be you know that became part of the okay you know we would actually had to put up a friends to keep okay the dolphins will stay in here and that’s nice because you know is in the dolphin side if you notice in the dolphin side there aren’t any other fish over there yeah no absolutely that’s because you know they can’t play nice they can’t play nicely with the other fish that’s what happens this is why we can’t have nice things but no this is so impressive so beautiful. So I love it when a message of ecology is shouted at you Jim because that that really makes the message more effective when people scream at you. What is that? Is that a tarpon? I think it’s huge! Yeah, no, alright, and you’ve got you know, this means they’ve got a back door on the other reasons to see natural light here right now is they got the back door open. That’s right. So Jim and I are looking out looking at the second floor we’re looking into them the deepest part of the main tank and there’s light filtering in on the back wall and the only reason we can see the back wall is apparently somewhere above us someone left a door open and the is streaming in it’s kind of I’ve never actually seen this before and I’ve been here a lot but again there you can see this steel ray so again if we were dolphins loose they’d be dangling around that’s right we can see the steel that’s amazing that’s fine right looks like we’re roped off and they’re the dolphins themselves they’re nice doing well. This is good. It’s nice here. You know what they here? Seats. Well, you know, they don’t, they want you to come in. They don’t want you to linger, you know. We’ve got a throughput thing we gotta hit. No, that’s it. Exactly. But it is. It’s well done. It’s charming. There is, they’ve just now begun to acknowledge that they have a, an issue with the acrylic here. Really?
Len Testa: Cause this thing’s like seven inches thick, isn’t it?
Jim Hill: It’s not so much… It’s the clarity. Oh, whoa, It’s not as clear as it could be?
Len Testa: Yeah, I mean, notice that it’s… It’s sort of a dulling, a yellowing… Yeah. I thought that was my eyes. I thought I was just getting old. So now you’re facing a situation where do you replace your acrylic? You know, um… How would they… They’d have to… They’d have to, uh… Would they drain the tank for that?
Jim Hill: It’s a… That’s the thing, this isn’t like your home aquarium where you just go buy another one and put the fish in that for a little bit.
Len Testa: No, absolutely. if we hang here for a minute, we’ll get the big show moment. Okay, so, so Jim and I have walked out now of the main building. We’re looking down over the first floor and a diver… diver is just now coming out of the tube where he was… They fill it with water and they transport him up into the end of the tank. He’s coming out… Now he’s coming out. it’s like a superhero coming out of the phone booth. You’re gonna Clark damp. And they’re filling the tank again with water slowly. Now if you were an evil scientist you’d be going, whoa, right now. That’s great. Again, there are great show moments. Again, this is Disney. They can tell stories. They can dazzle you. But Epcot, so often… It wasn’t Disney deciding what stories were being told. was the sponsors. so desperately needed to make the money, you know, the money to build this place. Right. So often they would end up defaulting to, what is, what is this sponsor? What is it you want to do? Well, what’s your idea?
Len Testa: That’s how I feel about this attraction. I love the idea. And I remember the original movie where they talked about you, the season, everything. It was a great introductory movie, but then you get to see base alpha and it’s, it’s so unstructured that It’s not cohesive. Like I get the idea that you can go from place to place and discover stuff, but where’s the overarching thematic element? Where’s the thing that says this is what CBS Alpha is?
Jim Hill: Well, the other thing actually for the redo for Nemo, in hindsight is always 2020, but they went with a blue color scheme, know, shades of blue. Remember when you were initially in here, this was somewhat white, somewhat austere, but the color actually helped. light in the room and you could see.
Len Testa: Yeah it’s pretty dark here right now by the way so now we’ve got the teals and blues and it’s it’s dark.
Jim Hill: And that’s what kind of bit them in the ass. Now couple that though with you’ve got you know the first of the living character in issue you know attractions in hero shows. You’ve you know Turtle Time with Crush and you know that since it opened has been you know a top five show for the part. It’s still You know, they exported the technology to other parks, So we go to Disneyland Paris and they’ve got a Stitch attraction that does… That’s the only Stitch attraction that works anywhere in the world.
Len Testa: Well, but you know… And I don’t think it’s Stitch, by the way. I think it’s the fact that the show works, not that Stitch works.
Jim Hill: Also, you know, the nice thing is that Stitch is an alien and with the park having… It’s a multicultural park. Oh, you don’t have to understand. Yeah, no. struggles with language, you struggle with language and that actually makes it workable.
Len Testa: that totally makes sense. No, they’ve actually talked about bringing that show stateside here but you the reality is that you know.
Jim Hill: We’ll speak English.
Len Testa: Yeah. So it’s like where’s our struggling moment? that’s funny. That’s good. Alright well anything on the horizon for The Seas coming up?
Jim Hill: That depends on who you talk to.
Len Testa: Is there a sponsor now for this pavilion? I don’t think there is.
Jim Hill: No. And, you know, that’s where the conversations get kind of interesting because if all goes according to plan, there may be another Nemo film. Finding Nemo 2? Well, no. Revenge of Mr. Well, the interesting thing is actually Ellen DeGeneres, who’s really… been leaning on them very hard about, you know, I want there to be a new Nemo film. You know, I liked making this and Disney’s like, well, you know, here’s a woman who has, you know, this talk show that’s very popular, who loves working with us. like, can’t we accommodate her in some way? Can we do a Christmas special or something? No, seriously. Absolutely. Seriously. And it just, so the notion is that if we’re going to do that, is there anything we can piggyback on? is can we do, if not a ride film, can we do a 3D experience, can we do something? You know, just let’s take advantage of this window. But the problem is that, again, Pixar being as secretive as it is, nobody is willing to talk about it yet, you know, we’re in very, very, very loose-leafed area right there. But the idea is to take advantage of that and just repurpose things and bring it here.
Len Testa: Yeah, it would kind of make sense. I mean, I think… Isn’t it true that everywhere within the film division now somebody on the film is saying how are going turn this into a theme park ride?
Jim Hill: Oh, no, absolutely. They refer to them as the speed teams now. That if you’re a tent pole film or an animated feature, there are literally meetings every week where it’s consumer product sits down, PR sits down, theme park sits down. Where are we in regard to we’re 18 months out, we’re a year out, we’re six months out. What are we doing to get the word out? How are we going to capitalize on this? How are we going to extend the brand? that’s where we are now in regard to Living Seas. It’s just sort of the notion of this is where we’re having that conversation about can we do something more with Nemo or can we do something more with Ariel. In fact, getting back to the… the Coral Cafe that there’s at least, you know, the 20 or $30,000 that’s been sent on the notion of Ariel’s Grotto, a re-themeing of that, you know, as a restaurant. So like the same name that they have out in DCA, but here, and actually a grotto under the sea. That’s it exactly. But at the same time, why, you know, it then becomes the constant argument of why spend the money. When you’re selling out every you’re sitting already, you know, it’s interesting. All right. So we’re getting ready to walk into the land but I actually like the land pavilion quite a bit I like a couple things about it. Number one. I like the artwork on the way in the sort of the strata. Oh, also it’s you notice it’s one of the few attractions that have a lot of trees around it.
Jim Hill: Mm-hmm
Len Testa: So the one thing I don’t like though, this is a little cardio test that you walking uphill You know in the morning and if you do this, you do it once to get your fast pass You do it again maybe to eat lunch. You do it again to ride Soren. At end of the day, you’re on your little stair master thing going on here.
Jim Hill: Well, know, it’s… But again, you have to get up here so there could be a basement. Again, That’s right. They’re making you walk up the stairs just on the outside and it’s a ramp. You know, this isn’t the kingdom. We don’t have utilidors here. Well, no. We have one corridor that runs under, you know, the… Comedicore in inventions area, but that’s it, you know. But here, I mean, you have to get up to this level so you can do your boat ride on the ground floor.
Len Testa: On the ground floor, that’s right. Because this isn’t Las Vegas and you’re not gonna put the boat ride on the second floor. So I do like this entrance way too because you get to, well now they’re stacking wheelchairs in front of it, but wow, that’s a lot of ECVs. That’s what I mean, this is what I’m about. So we just walked into the Soren Pavilion and literally the entire front rail from, over by Circle of Life. all the way over to the ramp to Soren is filled with ECVs. It’s like a convention of ECVs. 15 in a row, taking up literally the entire, you cannot walk all the way to the rail because ECVs are there. this is one of my favorite entrances. Number one, sight, right? So you walk in, you’ve got the tall ceiling, you’ve got the balloons floating in the middle when it’s a little bit more sunny. Well, I guess they’ve got it dimmed. But sometimes there’s the streaming through, but also you’ve got smell from sunshine seasons below. Cheese bread. Cheese bread. Essentially, the sensory season is fabulous, by way. And then you’ve got different attractions, they’re well distributed too. So you’ve got Soarin’, to your left. You’ve got Garden Girl straight in front of us, so they’re actually not serving lunch, but if they were, they’d be there. You’ve got the land, like around the two o’clock position. And then you’ve got Circle of Life. Some things are working out pretty well. Let’s take a walk back down to Circle of Life. We’ll walk around the pavilion. Anything new going on with Circle of Life? Is conservation still in, Jim?
Jim Hill: The interesting thing is that they were quite seriously talking about changing this film out and then suddenly the Lion King is the top, you know, the… Lion King 3D right now is the top film. Two weekends in a row. it’s just suddenly, it’s like, wait a minute, why would we change this? Why would we take this out?
Len Testa: So you notice though, Jim, they’ve actually added signage. So when you come in now, they’ve added signage that points out the Circle of Life film. This wasn’t here a few months ago. So when you walk in now, if you go to the right and you walk towards Circle of Life, there’s actually signage that explains what Circle of Life is. And it’s got Timon and Pumbaa, which is interesting because if you’re looking at the marquee for Circle of Life, all you see is really you see a globe and you kind of see Simba, Timon and Pumbaa, but they’re dark. their dark silhouettes against a bright globe. It kind of doesn’t really explain what and also the the title Circle of Life an environmental fable is not selling it to kids.
Jim Hill: No, no it isn’t but it did but again to their credit you know and Disney is about recognizing that you know from a signage point of view. But yeah, the other thing that’s interesting about this film is that it was it was actually done by the old Florida animation studio all of the animation was in fact a number of animators who actually worked on Lion King who did the… In fact, Florida basically did the I just can’t wait to be king number from the… Just can’t wait!
Len Testa: king! Oh, I was in the gym. was not picturing all that. Sorry.
Jim Hill: It’s alright. But yeah, they worked on it. it’s, you know, it’s a historical artifact of what this, you know… A more innocent time. When the studio actually used to be a studio. Hey! I remember that, vaguely.
Len Testa: So now we’re walking downstairs, we’re gonna walk past Living with the Land and past some ride named Soren. Living with the Land, I still love it. I still love the attraction. It got me interested in hydroponics, not for growing weed, I might add. I’m the one. But the sad part of that attraction is the narration has gone away. Yeah, so it used to be human narration, which, I mean, it hit or miss on the human narration. But now it’s just automatic and it’s lost some of its charm. The interesting thing that’s the exact same thing they’ve done on the buses. In fact, Disney…
Jim Hill: That’s right, no more bus driver narration.
Len Testa: And supposedly it was actually to shut down the infamous bus driver rumor. That the bus driver would entertain you by, well you know they’re gonna do the Smurf ride. A fifth gate is coming up soon. It is. But hey, I didn’t say that. Anyway, over here, so we’re walking up towards Soarin’ right now. So we’ve got bathrooms to our left, we’ve got Soarin’ straight ahead of us. 55 minute wait, I’m guessing it’s not really 55 minutes. We’ve got a 7.45 return time for FastPass. We’ve got people exiting from the boat ride. Hey Jim, have you ever been on the tour?
Jim Hill: behind the scenes back in the day though I mean it’s been a number of years since they’ve done it plants still grow the same way it’s totally cool well you know except for the horrible horrible man eating ones but actually what intrigues me about this attraction is that that literally when they put soaring in there’s good huge chunks of food rocks literally just feet off to the left of this I mean you you are cutting through parts of the theater. So essentially it’s to the left of the stamp entrance, But they’re right there. mean, literally behind the wall. fact, cast members, you if go… So if Tone Locke ever makes a comeback or… There you go. Get a food wrapper. yeah, it’s still not all there, but there’s enough there that… But, you know, again, theme park fans, you know, you know, are affectionate toward these things. The people who build the attractions are not. It’s like wall up. If they can’t see it, I don’t need to spend money on it. I don’t need to change that. And so it’s there. Speaking of things that are still there, let’s head over to the Imagination Pavilion. I hear there’s still some stuff on the second floor. So anything about Sunshine Season, have you eaten here recently?
Jim Hill: Yeah, in fact, I was backstage, this was 10 years ago now, and I was visiting a friend in Imaginary again. You know just walked up by the loading dock and literally sitting there on the loading dock, you know, just out in the Florida sun is the little house and the rooster. You know, remember, in here it was like every 15 minutes to mark the time the rooster would come out and… Oh yeah, right, right. It’s literally, it’s the whole house, it’s the assembly just sitting out in the sun. Back up the truck.
Len Testa: Well, that was the problem. I had a Geo Metro. spoiled again. Because I know they look in the windows and it’s like… Excuse me sir, I don’t remember you coming in here with your rooster friend. We just met. Yeah, that’s right. He asked me for a ride. He’s asking me to help move his house. that’s it. That’s fantastic. Alright, so we’re walking out of the land pavilion. A lot of people coming in here. I’m surprised the garden girl doesn’t do lunch. I don’t know.
Jim Hill: That is a surprise, but you know, the other thing they come up again, if you think about it, right now during food and wine, you don’t want people sitting down.
Len Testa: No, you want people moving around, going booth to booth, spending $3.25 per snack. absolutely, absolutely.
Jim Hill: But the other thing, frankly, that this is something that a lot of the restaurants at Disney World and a lot of the longer attractions are dealing with, as the ticket price creeps up, you you know this from the touring plans, that people aren’t really happy unless they get in at, what is it, nine point? Nine or ten attractions per… That’s it, exactly. And so actually the more that they if they did more they’d be even happier. But you know, so the reality is to sit down for a leisurely sit down meal. Yeah. So Epcot’s only open, Epcot’s open 12 hours a day on average. But not all of it. But not all of it. And the thing is too, if you’re going to you’re going to spend 90 minutes of it on on meals, you’re essentially taking what 15 % of your 15 % of your day to one meal. So that’s that’s why Quick service is flourished and unless it’s appointment dining or character dining. I mean, again, that’s one of the notions of changing Coraline, Coral Cafe, Coral Reef, an aerial dining experience. But even then, it’s just sort of like, I’m already doing well with that. Why would I change that? Let’s walk over to the Imagination Pavilion. This is an interesting walk from the land.
Len Testa: So we’re leaving a scented, so they’re piping out smells from Sunshine Seasons. It’s canopied, it’s dark, it’s shaded, it’s cool. And just as you leave the border of the Lant Pavilion, bam, you’re out in the Florida sun, and it’s 100 yards of concrete. It’s like the DMZ between attractions. All we need here are like Korean snipers up on the tower, and it would be more difficult. Just imagine it’s cooler than that. Get a home for that. Yeah, that’s it. Just imagine. Use your imagination to think you’re in Iceland or something like that.
Jim Hill: But this is, you know, lots of people have talked for years and years about the change out. of imagination and again this this honestly wasn’t disney’s fault again getting back to the the language it’s in the contracts that right at the time when this pavilion had to be changed in and kodak actually insisted but all the problem was the kodak was spinning it was the rise of the digital camera there film business was falling to the floor they didn’t have the big money for the redo didn’t have forty million dollars to spare you know and in fact home so you know it was and yet at that point it was something Pinder and Figment were quaint and I will tell you because I literally had a good friend who worked on the redo and he called me one afternoon and he said well they just sent me the list of celebrities for the attraction. It’s Gavin McLeod. Michael Jordan. Really? Well, was literally who Disney had relationships with, who the theme park rides were available to. And at one point they literally did a… The idea was you were being inserted into Michael Jordan’s imagination. And at one point, in fact, he sent me the art of, you know, with this giant sort of, you know, basketball-like copper structure. but had like a funnel going off and the idea that you were going to be put into this thing and then pressurized and shot into Michael Jordan’s imagination and learned about how to be an excellent athlete and Everybody was like this is the worst idea we’ve ever heard and how do we kill this? Who thought of this and how do we find them?
Len Testa: So we’re walking through the back of Imageworks Is there anything going on? Is there anything going on with the with the attraction by the way?
Jim Hill: You know, it’s weird on the back of this being a year where there have been a couple of very high profile appearances by, you know, the Dreamfinder character, coupled with how well the merchandise sells. There are always conversations now about, well, could we bring him back? But it’s like, it’s an exact… There have been, you know, they’ve discussed different iterations of it. You know, one version was, it’s like the Dreamfinder’s son has to learn the family business. And, you know, or we get a celebrity to be the Dreamfinder. you know, I’ve seen, again, the same thing. It’s the list where they had Steve Martin as the Dreamfinder. They had Jack Black as the Dreamfinder. know, Jack Black as Dreamfinder might actually work. That was the idea that you go with a young enthusiastic. He could do sequels. And it’s a strange time because it’s just like everyone acknowledges there’s affection for the character but the other thing is that and nobody ever talks about this but Dreamfinder and Figmen It’s they aren’t just Disney’s they are co-owned by Kodak.
Len Testa: they really? I didn’t know that. so there’s intellectual property shared.
Jim Hill: That’s it. Exactly. You know that this was a character that was invented for that pavilion and so now you’re in this situation where If you’re do something with him, you have to get the character, you know, have to get Kodak on board.
Len Testa: I’m gonna see what this one does. So Jim and I are now playing with the Figments Melody Maker thing where you wave your hands and you get to different things. We’re doing apparently whatever, no matter how I wave my arms, I’m doing tuba. Hope you guys can listen to this. I’ll give you a couple seconds of background music. staring at me with his dead eye. I’ve got, it looks like Ariel in DCA. I’ve got nothing but tuba here. What’s going on? All right. So apparently most of the orchestra is on honors. So we’re walking through the rest of the imagination pavilion. You’ve also got an area where, this was my favorite part of the first version. So it’s lighted squares that you jump on and different sounds come out. This is just an advanced version of what was upstairs in Imageworks. Absolutely. It’s nice to see them revisit the concept. But, and, and…
Jim Hill: Doesn’t everyone want their living room to work like this?
Len Testa: I’m not coming to your house. No, I… Again, this is what was affordable. know, in fact, they recognized from the first horrible redo that they had to do something. They found more money. You know, and they literally lifted up pieces of the track to try to put them back into the attraction. The interesting thing about this, about Imageworks from my perspective is the, you know, the Fignance melody thing is great. The sound squares that you jump on and make noise, that’s great. Really everything else is webcams to send pictures back home and they’ve got one, two, three, four, five, seven, nine of them. It’s the bulk of the space is really webcams. And I know that was great technology. back 15 years ago, who, dude, my iPhone does this now. Better I might add. What else is eating up 90 % of the space? Oh, retail is eating up rest of the space. I mean, just, was, they had to persuade when they were doing the redo that they were going make money. And this is between print on demand and, you know, in fact, that’s the other part of the story that in regard to shutting down the original… version of the attraction. They didn’t tell the retail people. They just asked, well, we’re going do this, we’re going to take Figmen out. And it’s like, are you high? You’re going to do what? We make $500,000 a year off of plush for Figmen. Where’s my half million dollars?
Jim Hill: Yeah, where else is that going to come from? And it’s like, well, no, we have to do this. Kodak wants us to.
Len Testa: So yeah, between the awful, let’s put celebrities in it, to, know, Doug and I, there was one version where they were actually, Disney had the rights to Wallace and Gromit in the theme park. And we’re gonna I love Wallace and Gromit. And they wanted that, you know. Im motioning to Laurel to go up the stairs at Imageworks. She won’t do it. We’re gonna walk away Laurel, you do what you think is best. Alright, you wanna walk over to see Future World East?
Jim Hill: so sorry, EO, how long is this thing gonna be here? By the way, Michael Jackson’s still dead. another part of the story i think we talked about this earlier with the the amount of money george lucas is a very interesting deal with the waltham’s net company The deal is not only with the money he makes off of helping to develop the attractions and that sort of thing, but for every year an attraction is open in an individual Disney park, every single attraction that has his name on it from the mind of George Lucas or whatever it is, he gets a million dollars a year. Wow. Okay. So when they decided to bring Captain EO back, there was no person on the planet more thrilled than George Lucas. Ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching. Four hundred or four billion dollars for doing nothing. For something he did 20 years That’s it exactly. Just hey You know that I I love this idea says Lucas. So do you need a quote from me? Or my accountant?
Len Testa: So we’re walking back towards Inventions East. We’re going past the upside down waterfall in front of Imagination. It’s to our right. To our left is the back of Inventions West. this is the of the, it used to be the Epcot history thing was here. They’ve got restrooms and stuff over there and we’ll walk over that way. It’s nicely shaded over here too I might add.
Jim Hill: Absolutely. But again, for a temporary display space, know, and again, you keep these things in your inventory just in case you need them. just circle back for just a second. I got this from the head of communications and imaginary. Jackson, Captain EO will stay open as long as there’s a crowd. And then when…
Len Testa: Define crowd though, did they say?
Jim Hill: Well, you know… mean, still pulling in a few people. It’s probably doing better than imagination was. I hate to say this, but with the Conrad Murray trial going on right now, it’s like, hey, yeah, let’s go see that. Michael Jackson is still in the news one way or the other. Yeah. Cirque du Soleil is starting its tour. It’s Michael Jackson themed show next year. I would anticipate…
Len Testa: Is that a tour they’re going to Vegas with that?
Jim Hill: Well, just this morning I saw the ad for the stop here in Orlando. So it’s a concert tour. Wow, really? anyway, if you don’t like Captain EO, I don’t have good news for you, it’s here for a while.
Len Testa: That’s fine, because originally they said, originally said it’s a limited engagement. They actually promoted it. Limited engagement. You know, we don’t know how long this is going to last, but now we’re on year two, right?
Jim Hill: Yep. And I would anticipate at least another two. At least another two. At least another two.
Len Testa: And they’re going to replace, they’re going to bring back Honey and Shrink the Audience then? Because at that point it’ll be 30 years old, right?
Jim Hill: No. In fact, at that point it’ll be 20 years old. They got so many guest complaints about the snake. Oh, the effects in scaring children. And that was the thing, you bring your kid in, you sit them down, and yes, you’re walking in and they’re saying, by the way, this show has intense effects, intense effects, and who listens?
Len Testa: No, no one listens. um, oh! we’re walking past the middle part of Future World right now and there’s this really neat display that’s called Discover the Cranberry. It’s a cranberry bog in the middle of Future World. So right before the entrance to World Check, you can kind of see the US Pavilion off to side, but they’ve got this sort of triangular-shaped wooden planter. about two feet high. Around the edges are ferns, know, bushes, cranberry bushes. And in the middle is this cranberry bog, it’s about two feet of water, and they’ve got somebody from Ocean Spray standing in the middle of it, and the thing is filled with cranberries, it’s hysterical. Well, again, a floating planter, if you will. It’s a floating planter, that’s right, it’s water filled. So how long do the… they replace the cranberries? Those are real, right? Real cranberries.
Jim Hill: They came from the corporate headquarters in Lakeville, Massachusetts. What’s funny is that when they initially proposed this idea last year that did it for food and wine, and Disney wanted to test how long the cranberries were going to work. again, normally when… it’s fruit, it’ll perish, right? It’ll eventually go bad. Ocean’s Prairie does this all the time. They’ve built bogs at like Rockville Center, they built them on Hollywood Boulevard. They’re there for three days and then they’re gone. So they’re three days. Yeah, okay, so they’re talking about doing for six weeks So it’s like let’s do a very scientific Study so what they did is they filled a kiddie pool with water put it out back at Epcot filled it with cranberries and Every so days a few days would check to see how well the cranberries did they lasted like two or three weeks So now that just the plan is that okay, you know when they start to go off They will just take them all out and a couple weeks. We’ll get a skimmer. That’s That’s right. So But actually it gets better there as part of food of food and wine I forget the name of the chef but they’re going to do a cooking demo in the bog.
Len Testa: No! Seriously. they’re not using electric blenders I’m presuming here with that. That was my question but you know they promised me photos. With the Cuisinart? they hold the Cuisinart?
Jim Hill: Never mind that just standing in the crater. Never mind ocean spray the guys from OSHA will be there going no you don’t no you’re not. Watch out for that I mean just that kills me. That’s gotta be classic.
Len Testa: So we’re walking back towards the fountain right now. There’s not a show going on but you guys can hear definitely hear music going on in the Passing the stage that was built for what was the name of that stage show the Mickey’s Colorscape or something to that effect. mean the gimmick was… Mickey’s Colorscape didn’t involve LSD?
Jim Hill: Well, Georgia, actually what was funny is that they actually took… It was a show that had been done in front of the castle. It’s the Cinderella Castle of Tokyo Disneyland. You have to understand that you’re bringing an incomprehensible Japanese theme park show and dropping in the middle of Epcot. What could possibly go wrong with that? So it’s all of the characters on stage and it’s aliens arrive… And I say this this is the older edition of Epcot before they really did you know they really upped the colors right so it’s like the theme is that the aliens are arriving to steal all of the colors From Epcot yes, so they arrive it’s like wait a minute beige never mind obviously someone else has been here They’ve stolen the beige and replaced it with taupe Sandstone you know show kind of derailed in the first couple of minutes. That’s classic.
Len Testa: Alright, so we’re making our way to Future World East. We’re gonna walk through Inventions real quick. Sure. Alright. Elliot, do you like Electric Umbrella by the way? It’s one of the few places you can get free drink refills.
Jim Hill: Yeah, and here, know, particularly in this park, that’s a lifesaver.
Len Testa: Oh yeah, because we just walked through, what, three miles of concrete? And looming in the distance. Looming in the distance is mission space. That’s another one of those great what-if attractions. mean, don’t get me wrong, what’s there is good if you remember to keep your head pointed straight forward. You know, the… Yeah, I haven’t seen that many warning messages since Stialis first came out.
Jim Hill: Oh, no, no, absolutely, absolutely. But the original version of it was that you were actually supposed to get out not on, you know, I mean… not a simulator, not a test to go to Mars, you were actually supposed to fly to a space station and step out into this huge space that they were gonna convince you was in space, actual deep space, with this really relatively easy to pull off illusion. mean, mind you, it was a lot of computer power to do it. But you had windows on the floor, windows on the wall, windows on the ceiling, and you a starscape. that naturally rotated through all of the windows. nice. And just the whole notion of, I am some place because I can look out the window and see where I am.
Len Testa: Nice. So we’re in Invention East right now. We’re walking through the Underwriters Laboratory Lab where you get to play with different things and test them and break them. It’s a lot of fun. The thing I like about this the most is it’s hands on, right? So you can try and bust up a television and see what it’s like to open and close the door a million times. And just for effect, you guys have been here before, you know that there are pads where you can jump on a pad on the floor and when you do that, a door opens and closes. And as of now, each door, so the leftmost door, has been opened 974,500 times. into 88 times 89. So that’s great. Here’s one of my favorite rides though in all of interventions right here. It’s some of all thrills. Classic ride. I don’t know how much these things cost Jim, but if you ever need to stage a party, you put one these in your house.
Jim Hill: This is another one of those great what might have been this is the kooka arm. This is the kooka arm that’s the basis for the Harry Potter attraction over at Universal, right? And was supposed to be the basis of the Incredibles ride for Tomorrowland at both Disneyland and Disney World it totally would have made sense as an Incredibles ride. In fact, what was great about this proposed ride was that you could literally fine tune it. mean, you got on the thing and there were five buttons in front of you. And did you want the Jack Jack level, the Reload of Lee Gentle, all the way up to Mr. Incredible, where basically it shook you into the fillings came out of your head. Nice. It’s a great ride, though. It’s very customizable. And kids love it. Kids love the fact that you can actually, it’s interactive, right? can play with the track layouts and do whatever you want with it. it’s rewritable because the maximum score is just under 1,300 points. But they give you a score at the end. And depending on what your score is, if you’re at 500, they’ll tell you, next time do this and this and this, and it’ll be much more intense. And I think for teenagers, that’s like a… That’s
Len Testa: Could be, for interventions it’s not a bad attraction, it’s not bad at all. It’s a similar, you go through a natural storm and the cool thing is they walk you through all the things that a tornado can do and then they give you a series of choices on how you design your own suburban house. Things like whether you have a pitched roof or a flat roof and whether the sides of your house curve in a little bit or whether they’re straight. each of those decisions, whether you have shingles or tiles.
Jim Hill: Or you make it out of balsa wood?
Len Testa: I think it’s actually straw… No, wait, wrong story there, sorry. yeah, then they simulate a storm and then you go. But it’s pretty neat. It’s actually not bad, it’s in 3D too. Actually it’s 4D because they throw water on you when you’re going through the storm.
Jim Hill: You see, now that’s classic Disney education. it’s entertaining. Yeah, it’s entertaining and you’re learning something.
Len Testa: Let’s say I’ve learned now that the second floor of my house needs to be pitched in a little bit so that it’s not acting as a sail for the wind when tornadoes come. Absolutely. Absolutely. I it’s very good. Let’s walk back through Inventions because it’s air-conditioned and we’ll pick up with with Universe of Energy. So we’re walking out here and it looks like on our right they’re doing a new attraction called Habit heroes presented by Blue Cross Blue Shield Anthem and Blue Anthem and Blue Shield of Florida so I’m guessing that if it’s called the habit heroes and it’s sponsored by an insurance company I know what this is I know this is gonna be you’re gonna get halfway through the ride and they’re gonna decide that you don’t have coverage anymore they’re gonna kick you off sad but true but realistically know, Disney is on a health food kick. Disney is on, you know, the cliché of the theme park fan who is heavy set and eats only junk food is starting to worry Disney.
Jim Hill: Because it’s not how they want to represent themselves. Well, plus the parks are huge too, right?
Len Testa: I mean, it’s hard to get around if you’re… Yeah. Again, the 15 vehicles we just saw. That was actually amazing. I’ve never seen that before. That many ECVs stacked up. So we’re walking up to a universe of energy right now. We’re walking at the site of Inventions and we’re walking up onto the mirrored side of energy so all we see are the mirrored tiles and we’ve got the reflecting pool out back you know I think if they focus this the right way you could actually burn down in inventions isn’t that like an Archimedes mirror or something like that?
Jim Hill: Don’t tell people that. I’ve never actually seen it so what Monorail going overhead Monorail Burgundy again is that the exit to energy right there?
Len Testa: dumps you right over Ah dumps you right here. Okay good so let’s walk past energy anything going on with energy by the Well again remember we were talking about Ellen DeGeneres pushing very heavily to do the follow-up Nemo project. She was great in this, the way. She’s really lent this thing new life. The interesting thing, too, is because she sort of got her second wind with her talk show, and Bill Nye is still in the news, and he’s still active, this thing is what, 15 years old now? Yep. It’s still going strong. they’re looking to refresh. But the problem is that Ellen really no longer looks like Ellen did then.
Jim Hill: No, she looks slightly different. She’s getting older, but she still… no, no, no, no. It’s just the notion of… And more to the point, our attitudes toward technologies have changed subtly. So a giant oil refining company isn’t the best sponsor for you?
Len Testa: We need a variety of opinions on this, or variety of voices. what just happened in the Gulf.
Jim Hill: So as part of the bigger conversation with her is like, if we do this, would you be then be willing to help us with a redo of energy? The conversation is progressing. I won’t say that definitively, you know, it’s going to happen, but the conversation is progressing. So, Ellen wants to do a redo of Nemo, and this is sort of like, if you do that, you know, if we do that, can you do this for us? There you go. That makes sense. But anyway, here we come on mission space, and just kind of interesting to have to watch them take one of the simulators. fact, isn’t it interesting that the green one, is it the green one that actually spins?
Len Testa: The green one does not spin. orange one does so actually they should have inverted it green should have been for vomit as far as I was concerned but for the for the spinning end. yeah but what I’ve heard is I’ve heard that the green side will always have a lower weight than the orange side so even literally if there’s no one in the park there’s literally no one in either line the orange side wait time will always be higher than the green side just so if you have any doubt about which attraction which side you’re gonna go on you go on the group you prefer the green side just to avoid liability. Wow, okay. Makes sense.
Jim Hill: you know, again, sadly, this was a ride technology. They were hoping to walk around the world. And after all of the problems and, you know, the couple of, you know, between the health issues and the one or two people who, you know, seriously, know, there’s at least one or two people who walked out of this thing and keeled over. But the reality is… But there people who walk off of Snow White and kill over. it just happens. I mean, again, there’s 20 million people a year. Some people, statistically, will just It’s a city. It’s a full-size city. you know, just randomly, this will happen. But again, because the death was linked to… Yeah, they just come off the ride. Yeah. So it just, it became a ding. And now, this is not going to travel. And now, on the other hand, we’re walking up on test track and…
Len Testa: So you mentioned, sorry, you mentioned the deaths. Remember when there was the monorail accident a couple years ago? One of the things that we did for the guide was we figured out the deaths per passenger mile of the monorail versus of walking from the contemporary to the Magic Kingdom to try and figure out which mode of transportation was safer. So turns out that the fatality rate for pedestrians is significantly higher, like between 10 and 100 times higher than the fatality rate on monorails. No matter I don’t know how the monorail thing turned out but no matter what monorails are safer than walking.
Jim Hill: well also, you know to be honest if those who have lived in Orlando number of years now will tell you that you know there was a rather famous monorail fire back oh that’s right yeah they were they had to have back oh and they were on the berm rather sorry they were on the they were on the the track right in the middle. but it gets better they one of the theaters here in town turned it literally they did a musical called the great monorail fire and it felt like a community theater thing It it was in Rift on Disney. There were so many people who work for theme parks and who work with Disney here that it just did great business for the better part of two or three years.
Len Testa: The things you guys can hear in the background are the different cars for test track. It sounds like they’re really putting them through here. I they’re running through like every 10 or 15 seconds it seems like. It’s definitely got great capacity. More to the point.
Jim Hill: of you in California you’re going to get to ride a slightly dumbed down version of this in Carsland next time. Same technology right?
Len Testa: Actually I heard different car technology but same idea.
Jim Hill: the only difference with this one is there’s actually going to be a moment in the thing with two cars on the track where you’re going to race and pass one another. side by side right so that’s the thing right.
Len Testa: and is that going to be random so that one side wins sometimes? Or does random does random cost money?
Jim Hill: Well more to the effect of it’s getting random past legal Got it. You know in vehicles full of people so so we’re walking in the back of test track right now we’re gonna go into the Discovery Center where they’ve got all of the GM cars and The last time I was here Jim the thing that the thing that I noted was Jim had just started stocking Chevy volt sorry volts and they actually had one here. They’ve got a volt here, but you can’t touch it. Like here’s our new car. It’s going to save the company. You can’t get anywhere near it. Is that the one up there on stage?
Len Testa: I don’t know. Let’s go say. Okay. So we’re passing by a series of nondescript General Motors cars. There’s a Cadillac. Is that the volt? Seriously, we need… Remember the days when you could tell GM cars from everybody else? Fins. That’s what GM needs, Fins. Alright, we got a Cadillac, we’ve got… Oh, this is the Volt! This is the 2011 Volt, the all-electric. 93 miles per gallon, 37 highway. Gas only, 37. Let’s see if we can get in. Is it open?
Jim Hill: Oh, you can get in the Volt these days! Thank you, GM, for listening to me. You know, it looks like a regular car. It’s, uh, so we’re not se… So this is the second vehicle we’ve been in today besides the boat. It looks like a regular car. Actually, it’s pretty spacious. I’m kind of excited, actually, about the Volt. Yeah, I’m hoping you can catch this too. It’s not bad for a little car. Good. I’m glad to see it’s open. I hope they sell a million of them. Good for them. It’s lightweight. It’s small. It’s sleek. Is that a Sunroof? Durable 2 to 4. 2 to 4. No, it’s fine. fine. And the rest of it is just big GM cars. But the Volt is, I think, the star here. Although I’m a little scared that no one else is beside this other than you or I. You and me. It’s not a bad looking car. Alright. And that concludes our tour of… Actually, everyone’s over at the red convertible Camaro. Now I understand. Yeah, got it, got it, got it. That’s cool. All right, should we walk over to World Check-In? It’s only 1.24 miles, All right, fabulous. Let’s walk over. Maybe we’ll grab… It is food and wine, so maybe we’ll grab some food and or wine. A beverage, a beverage, we need a beverage. Where will we find a beverage? Food and wine, Alright, let’s go. Yeah, the exit’s that way. I love the gift shop. They cut a break with cars?
Jim Hill: Well, mean, think about it. You you’ve got this kind of scene of new merchandise. right, right. Cars and merchandise. Got it. A test truck. a franchise that they just they want to keep going. They just did Cars 2, is there gonna be a Cars 3?
Len Testa: No, actually the interesting thing is they have decided that from here on in it’s planes. In fact, John Pryor has just agreed to do the voice of a little Piper Cub character that you know basically is It’s just picture cars only done with 747s and in fact the the Learjet that Flynn Mcmissle traveled in around the world is kind of the introductory characters in this world.
Jim Hill: neat. So we’re gonna take a short break while we walk on the concrete walkway. Again, more concrete, Jim. concrete walkway over past the Odyssey to Mexico when we will pick it up in Mexico. See you guys then.
Len Testa: Jim, we’re here in World Showcase. We just walked past the Odyssey restaurant. We’ve got our nice cold Coca-Cola here. Interesting thing for me in terms of architecture for the Odyssey restaurant is there’s this pier that extends out from the Odyssey almost halfway, or about a third of the way, towards the bridge between Future World and World Showcase. And this pier is completely exposed. They’ve got a couple of seats with umbrellas at the end of it, but… There is literally nothing shielding you from the direct Florida sun on this pier. So it’s this concrete slab elevated above humid water. And there’s literally not a soul on this thing. It’s a modern day. It’s only like 82. When it’s like 95 degrees outside, mean there’s no one there now, no one would be out there. But the Odyssey has been closed for years, are doing anything with the Odyssey,
Jim Hill: Well, the Odyssey is one of the wonders of life, believe. It is pressed into service these days for special events, wine pairings or that sort of thing. there’s a an ambitious plan much in the same way that fantasy land has been extended reinvented in order the process of being over the magic kingdom Epcot, the heart of Epcot, the transition point between World Showcase and Future World is being eyeballed very heavily. Well, think about it. So many people come here and love to dine, but they also want to dine and watch, they want to watch Illuminations. the interesting thing is one of the primo places that you can actually watch Illuminations is Dead Center. Right here as you come up and so one of things that they’re eyeballing is You know in a weird sort of way moving the gift shops down rather than having them close to the water actually having them closer to the The entrance itself actually pushing out into the bay which has your ridiculous concrete thing right? But that then you put a giant Restaurant sort of a crystal palace that has lots of glass so you can see the affairs see the fireworks now Now if you do that though, it then proposes that if you’re redeveloping your waterfront area, you’re pushing out… Since we’ve got the bulldozers out… That’s right. Couldn’t you be doing something with Odyssey? where this gets interesting is that’s where they’ve talked about doing the Brazil. Brazil? Well, and that’s what’s funny is just lately the Brazilian press is all full of, you know, hey, Disney’s talking to us again and Disney’s like… No, we’re not. You know, and that’s the whole point of a confidential conversation, is it supposed to be a confidential conversation? Yes, we’ve actually seen tweets coming from people who said, can anyone speak Portuguese? Yes, yes. I need to translate this press release. So, going to be interesting to see that, like I said, this This plan extends beyond fantasy land. you know, now and remember, that was one of the things that frustrated people about the Cameron World of Pandora Avatar deal, is you’ve got Jay Raziddle talking about, well, we’ll just not do something we were gonna do. And it’s like…
Len Testa: So what did he just shut down? Exactly. So nobody knows where he shut down yet. Yeah.
Jim Hill: And so it’s like, what did he just pull the money for? Is that the redo of the heart of Epcot? Is that something else that was supposed to go into Animal Kingdom?
Len Testa: Amazing. So we’re inside the Mexico Pavilion right now. One of my favorite pavilions, not just because they have tequila, but because of the atmosphere and the plaza on the inside. there a, so Jim, you and I were talking about this at our meet, but one of the things I really like about what they’ve done with Mexico in terms of food and beverage is they’ve brought in, well they brought in new restaurants. now Mexico has two sit down restaurants, right? They’ve got Sena Gel, they’ve got La Hacienda, they’ve got the Cantina, and then they’ve got La Cava del Tequila. So they’ve really got four places for food and beverage. But the other interesting thing I really like about this is that since it’s not Disney run, you can actually talk to the people who run these things. So the people who are on Twitter, you could eventually meet. if you follow Kava Del Tequila on Twitter, you can actually come and ask to meet the guys who do the Twitter feed in Walt Disney World, which is really neat. you can’t get that. I let’s face it, not that I don’t love every single part of Walt Disney World, but I can’t imagine the guys at China doing that. But it’s a great thing, I really, really like it a lot. But that level of response to social media, mean, again, that’s the sort of thing where you then develop a relationship with a customer, they come back because, the guy came out and he talked to me.
Jim Hill: Exactly. So we were here on Saturday and Humberto, who’s one of the guys who does the Twitter feed, was leading the tequila thing.
Len Testa: And we know this because we were here one time tweeting out, hey, let’s go to La Cava. He, again, through Twitter, invited us in for some free chips and salsa. And so us sat there and planned to meet for 300 people. But it was literally because, hey, this guy, know, so somebody tweeted out, we tweeted back, you know, over a tequila and some chips, we said we should do meet. But those guys are really doing it. Disney’s kind getting into social media, but…
Jim Hill: It’s it’s classic Disney. We’re gonna get into social media. Let’s put an organization behind it with a strict hierarchy and an entire three ring notebook of rules around it.
Len Testa: No, that’s it exactly. That’s it exactly. Alright, so you wanna grab a drink? Sure. Thanks, Joe. So Jim and I are now walking back out of Mexico. We’ve just had a quick quality check of the wares, the sampling of the wares at Reserva de la… Sorry, at La Cava, we had some Reserva de la Familia. It was wonderful. We’re staggering now past the… This is where they did the Donald meet and greet, the three caballeros. By the way, I learned by the way yesterday at the Mexico meet where we ordered 150 margaritas that my Spanish improves with drinking.
Jim Hill: Well, to double back on the pavilion we just looked, this is the template for what they’re trying to do with all of the World Showcase pavilions. If you think about it, inside of a five-year period, you freshened up the rivers of time attraction by folding in the characters. You’ve created the character meet and greet area. You’ve totally redone your restaurant out front. You’ve added your tequila bar. You’ve totally re-energized this. You’ve created new, not only new venues for the family and new family experiences, you’ve also in cruise, you know, the amount of money you’ll make out of your restaurants and get people excited about coming back in. They’ve got four places now to spend your money on food. So this is, this is the template. This is, do you think it’s any coincidence that Mexico is run by an external group rather than Disney though?
Len Testa: Well, you know, that is that, that’s what they’re looking to do. Was it, was this a case with them where Disney said, here’s the idea that we have or maybe they came to Disney and said here’s the idea that we have and Disney let them try it because it was relatively low risk for Disney because they get a cut of that those sales right?
Jim Hill: they do they do so so really if they wanted to try it out if they wanted to put in a fourth at a fourth dining venue and they wanted to bring in you know tequila experts like Hilda they could do that this doesn’t really risk anything to Disney no but but at the same time you look at They are the ones who brought the expertise and the level of authenticity, the level of personalization. And now it’s a question of, how do you do that again? Right. What do we do then? You know, I mean, face it, we’ve walked now we’re here in Norway and we’re here at the, you know, just outside of the anchor house, which of course is where they do, you know, the princess breakfast, get the storytell, you know, the storybook dining. And you want to talk about shoehorning in something that doesn’t fit. Oh, geez. Yeah. This is so Norway.
Len Testa: I love the pavilion and I’ve actually been to Norway. I’ve been to Oslo. And so we’re sitting in front of the, the Norway pavilion right now. left is the Stave Church, which I love by the way, it’s one the iconic things. You’ve got the Puffins Roost and the Kringle Bakery Ag Cafe. You can see sort of the back of the attraction over here, back of Maelstrom, and then you’ve got Restaurant Akershus, which is, it’s the right architecture, mean, sort of rural, old, Norway does actually look like this. Interesting thing, so in Oslo, there’s a Norwegian architecture museum. But it’s not a building. It’s a collection of buildings that the Norwegian government has transported from around Norway to this one, like, you know, 500 acre park where you can literally walk in the buildings. They have literally an entire apartment block, a block of apartments in there from, you know, this is what Oslo looked like in the 1950s. They preserved it and moved it. There. This is, this is representative Norwegian architecture. Yeah. So, so actually going to Norway, I can tell you, it looks kind of like this. Yes, startling lack of princesses. Yeah, I didn’t see as many princesses, although they were all strikingly beautiful. mean, the men and women in Norway are amazing. But yeah, no princesses. And it could be so much more, although again, I will say my breakfast buffet in…
Jim Hill: Oslo in the hotel did actually have herring. I know, right? That’s bracing right there. But again, it’s just going to be interesting to watch the 10 year plan here as they walk around and attempt to do this to all the pavilions. Now, mind you, some of these things are hit and miss. I mean, as we get over to Italy, I was kind of shocked to hear about them shutting down the pizza place there for the three or four month three due. You’ve heard about this?
Len Testa: I heard the Vietnam police closing or I know the other restaurant that uh… to tell you is closing i my understanding was it was the the new pizza place that was shutting down for a review and you know startlingly so we were just there yesterday actually okay uh… i hope i’m wrong but supposedly there was some issue whether i mean sometimes it’s actually a good issue as in hey we need to increase our capacity we have you know so many more people coming right uh… but it’s always a little startling to have a facility that’s just been open suddenly close. the so I know that they don’t get a whole lot of use out of the well when we get to Italy we’ll talk about it but they don’t get a whole lot of use about it on the patio seating I never see anyone out there and that could be a that can be sure we’re coming up by the way on China guys and they’re the acrobats are actually performing right now. So it’s a little loud outside in China. is there anything going on with the China pavilion?
Jim Hill: You know, they just opened the new shopping area. Have you seen it?
Len Testa: Not yet,
Jim Hill: But as for China, yes, there’s… But the interesting thing is this is all piggybacking on Shanghai. I don’t know what you’ve heard about the entrance area for example for Shanghai Disneyland, but there’s no Main Street. There’s no Main Street in Shanghai, China? You know, there’s gonna be… I mean, there’s no retail corridor, there’s no shops. You’re gonna come into a garden. Is that a cultural thing that the Chinese government wanted to do or is that a Disney thing?
Len Testa: This Disney trying to be respectful of the Chinese culture, but I’ll tell you from chats with folks at Imagineering, they’re like… I’m not sure this is gonna work. mean, you know, but at the same time, realistically, what does turn of the century America mean to, you know, a Chinese national? It’s like, okay, interesting set of buildings. And in fact, they had an original take on the main street that was fascinating. It was literally taking iconic pieces of Disney architecture from Disney and Pixar films I met at. For example, you’d walk down a street where Gasto’s from Ratatouille is right next to the Darlings house from Peter Pan. Nice. You build the street of buildings that you recognize from classic Disney animated films leading to the castle. And that was in there. They looked at it. It’s out. Now it’s a garden. Really. And again, speaking of things that are out here, we are walking through what would have been Africa. Yes. So we’re at the African Opus for now. You may have heard the drums as we go through. They’ve turned it into a retail area, but this has got to be the largest unused space in World Showcase. think.
Jim Hill: No, absolutely. But there’s a giant expansion pad back here. And I think it’s if you ever seen the 1982… television special for the opening of Epcot. It’s literally this sad sequence where it’s Danny Kay and Alex Haley who is the author of Roots was actually going to narrate the the film that drove this attraction. They’re standing there in front of the model. it’s like…
Len Testa: Well, if you look at the Epcot book, right, the building, you know, tomorrow’s whatever, it’s got the whole thing about the Russia Pavilion, the Africa Pavilion, all the artwork is there. Everything’s there. Yeah.
Jim Hill: And in the end, it’s just this little sad moment, know, Danny shakes hands with Alex. Well, I’ll meet you back in here. It’s like, absolutely. And then, and then neither of lived to see it. Well, again, the only problem, and again, this is where it, this was what was problematic about Epcot. That, that, you know, sometimes people came forward. mean, for example, you mentioned the Russian Berlin. The, they had sponsors lined up multiple times. But the problem is Disney would all okay and go poking at who the sponsor was. And actually they’d figure out the money was coming from the Russian mafia. And these days they’d be like, okay Actually, the word would be oligarch now, wouldn’t it?
Len Testa: There you go
Jim Hill: But in the case of the African Pavilion, it kept coming back to South Africa, was the only place that came to… Blood diamonds?
Len Testa: Yes! Was it really? Seriously! And it was just one of these no-suits like, oh no Thanks, really no Yeah, and it just, again, just broke the back of it They couldn’t it made That’s funny. Ah, so we’re here It is actually October and we’re in Germany for Oktoberfest. Jim, had we not had a very lovely shot of tequila about five minutes ago, I’d be buying you a beer right now. So, what do think about the Germany Pavilion? I kind of like the outside. The thing I wish about the German Pavilion was that it needed more depth. So it’s got a restaurant, it’s got a good restaurant, right? mean, Beer Garden’s very popular, it’s good. It’s relatively easy to get into. The shopping is good as far as shopping goes. It’s actually, seems to be like decent quality stuff. There’s just no reason to come here, right? Other than you need a place to eat or you really want some some Riesling, right, wine, why would you come here?
Jim Hill: Well, we’re actually walking toward what was supposed to make you come here. So we’re walking in past through Summerfest actually. We’re walking towards a giant mural on a wall. This is an interesting entrance though for a… for a restaurant with the archway and everything like that it almost looks like the entrance to a ride. was the entrance to a ride. are, in fact, what’s sad is if you walk through that wall, in fact it’s now used as rehearsal space for high school groups who come here and perform. There is a full-size ride building back there. and it was going to be for the Rhine River ride. You were actually here, the boats were going to come up, you’d board, and then you’d float for five to ten minutes past miniature recreations of the Black Forest and great pieces of German architecture. It was going to be charming. you know…
Len Testa: Yeah, really, it’s kind of funny because we’re standing in the very front of the building. It’s where Summerfest is. They’ve installed sort of the counter service in the front here. And then there’s some tables, but dear God, it’s nothing, it looks nothing more like than the entrance to a ride. I mean, you’ve got a huge arch here. With a banner that says welcome and you’ve got actually you’ve got that you’ve got a pastoral scene. You’ve got a castle mural You’ve got you’ve got the river itself It looks like they’ll watch this space Absolutely, and if you think just how easily you drop the queue in yeah, yeah I mean you could you could definitely put a put a queue right in here very easily It would dump out inside and as you walked out you would pass the you know the the Oktoberfest restaurant and it’s like Bratwurst, I smell Bratwurst. I need the coleslaw and some hot potato salad.
Jim Hill: It was something that was supposed to happen. fact, was it a funding thing that they couldn’t find a sponsor for it? Or was it just that we’ve got enough boat rides? Well, the interesting thing is the structure was there. They built it. it’s yeah. I mean, they’ve already built the building, right? Yeah. And it’s sort of like in the case of the Japanese pavilion where they had built the structure to put the meet the world show in. I mean, it’s still back there. They have this giant show building that no show went into. And now it’s used for temporary storage. And, you know, it just The belief was that okay in year two three you know we’ll add this stuff but not understanding that in year two three of Epcot’s life 1983 1984 Oh recession. Not only that but you change out Disney’s management. know.
Len Testa: yeah nobody yeah so that was the that was the beginning of the Eisenhower era right that was the end of the Miller era. So we’re walking up now we’re leaving Germany we’re walking past the bathrooms on our left and the miniature train set which I love by the way. It’s adorable.
Jim Hill: But yeah, so much was going to happen and just ultimately, you know, just again, ICER came in and you have to just say one of the reasons ICER came in is Disney stock took a severe hit after Epcot opened because it was like now suddenly the financial community was actually paying attention to what Epcot’s attendance was because this was his $800 million project. $800 million. It’s adorable. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, that was kind of the beginning of the end for that management team. Now, mind you, Card Walker… set up Ron Miller and Ron Miller got a lot of stuff going. mean, whether from the Disney Channel to Touchstone, I mean, the first Disney adult films, but just didn’t get enough time.
Len Testa: that’s amazing. So we’re coming up on Italy right now. We’re passing the gelato and espresso stand. We’re coming up on the replica of the St. Mark’s Square, the Basilica. You’ve got the juggler out. That’s very good. So interesting thing. I was in Italy earlier this year and I was in Vicenza so it’s halfway between Milan and Venice in the Veneto. Lovely place. It’s actually got a square that I swear to God looks almost exactly like this. Obviously it’s much larger but it’s got sort of this building. It’s got this campanile, this bell tower right here and then it’s got shops like this. The only thing that would be different, real Italy has far more gelato and shoe stores than Epcot does. I mean really like it’s like It’s like the entire business of Italy, as far as can tell, is selling ice cream, shoes, and leather goods.
Jim Hill: Well, maybe some of the Disney can make a nice shoe-shaped ice cream bar.
Len Testa: Honestly, if they put a shoe store in here and they sold gelato outside, it would be Italy, as far as I’m concerned. Wow. OK. It was lovely. was lovely. So anything going on with the Italy people?
Jim Hill: Not so much, but I… Well, they got the two restaurants around us, so they’ve got a Viannappoli that just opened. We ate lunch there yesterday. It was fabulous. They are like any other restaurant, or actually any other country in Epcot. They are looking to increase the amount of character interaction. In Italy, really? And well, they’re looking to actually do… In fact, it’s kind of bit them in the butt. They were working with Julie Taymor to do a… a live stage version of Pinocchio and they’re actually going to bring those interpretations of the characters here but Julie kinda went dark and then Julie kinda went to go work on Spider-Man and I think we all know how that ended so I don’t know if that’s actually gonna happen but it’s interesting you’ve stopped here between America and Italy because you’ll notice there’s a large chunk of space here yeah there is actually so between Italy and the United States Pavilion this actually was going to be out behind the American Pavilion they were plans based on how well Epcot did during its opening years to build and it just boggles the mind to hear this a second lagoon.
Len Testa: So a lagoon like a figure eight shaped lagoon?
Jim Hill: Well more to the effect of a large reflecting pool type lagoon the idea was there would be space back there for upwards of five to six more pavilions and what they wanted to do was actually dropped the soviet union at the other end of the reflecting pool so you have you know america across from its you know and united you know i think it was the freedom pool or they were they were discussing something to that effect that’s classic yeah but the interesting thing is that that was of course before they built you know point of vista street or bonavista avenue whatever they call out there and more to the point the Caribbean. In fact, where the Caribbean Hotel is sitting right now is pretty much where the Soviet Pavilion would have been sitting.
Len Testa: my god, that’s amazing. You know, but at the same time, mean, there are huge pieces, expansion beds, and you just don’t see them because of the ornamentation. mean, for example, when they were going to do the Swiss Pavilion, was going to, obviously because Switzerland stands between Germany and Italy, it was going to be dropped there with the Matterhorn out behind all of these places. Yeah, um, no, it’s, you know, you have to understand that there was a time that Epcot, hoped to have 32 countries in here. Wow, and so they’ve almost tripled what they have now. Well, for opening day they only had eight. Alright, let’s depart Italy and head to the often-misnamed United States Pavilion. I swear to God, Jim, it’s not called the American Adventure. That’s the name of the attraction that’s on the inside. The outside is the United States Pavilion.
Jim Hill: good, No, that’s… It’s kind of a fascinating attraction in that they tried and tried and tried to come up with a way to make this work. You know, one version, was a flume ride where you were going by figures, you know, of American folklore while… Daniel Boone, David Crockett. Paul Bunyan. Paul Bunyan? Seriously. And, but again, with a blaring, you know, this land is your land, this land is my land. And then from there, finally after like the third try and they actually brought in a Hollywood filmmaker as an outside contractor and I’ve been trying for… upwards of 10 years to get the name of the guy who turned in the really lousy version of American Adventure. Yep. And finally, Randy Bright was like, well, look, let me try. And he’s the one who came up with the show. He’s the one who came up with the whole war wagon concept of film elements and AA figures and all that. And it works. Mind you, it, you know, because of course they had to get a sponsor. Okay. Sorry, Jimmy. want to pause your, I just heard for second. So it’s food and wine.
Len Testa: You expect to see people walking around with alcohol this dude just walked by us with a beer in each hand and then a frozen slushy alcoholic drink cupped it grabbed in his mouth He’s holding onto it by his teeth. I love food and wine Jim. I love food and wine That’s American ingenuity at its finest. That’s what it is right there. That’s what made this country great. Anyway, again, he comes up with a concept The rest is they say it’s history But again, it’s only what they could get American Express and Coca-Cola to agree to. A fine company by the way, American Express. But, you know, just the whole notion of, we’re going touch on slavery, we’re going touch on World War II, and speaking of which, we’re coming up on the Japanese Pavilion and this, they actually had built the… So it’s interesting that the United States Pavilion is between Italy and Japan, two countries that we fought in World War II. We’re gonna put Morocco there right in Germany, right? So it’s it’s German It’s like the acts of the axis powers right between the American is it but we’re all friends now. That’s true We’re all friends, right, you know anyway, they did the it was actually World War two that that defeated In a weird sort of way the meet the world attraction coming into Japan. I mean they built the structure and But the word began to get out that when the show was installed you know for tokyo disneyland and i want you to send what’s weird about the stories tokyo disneyland opens in eighty three right there and so obviously again meet the world was going to be a phase two attraction was going to show you know open as the park at more popular but as people began to go over and visit tokyo disneyland and it literally get to the moment in the story of the history of japan where World War II was going to occur. they’re in the middle part of the 20th century. there’s just, the theater goes black. There’s a thunderous crash. And basically the narration says, and then something bad happened. And then it’s almost dot dot dot. And then, we, you know, we learned from those times and we became the nation we are now. And it was like, it’s like, wait a minute. In the state that is filled with World War II retirees, you’re going to put in an attraction that goes dot dot dot and then something bad happens. And I was like, that’s it. No, no sale. I mean, was just like, no, we can’t do that. And, um, and Disney then couldn’t go to its, you know, its partners at Oriental Land Company go, Oh, by the way, we’re going to change the attraction that you spent all that money on and put it in a World War II scent. That would have been offenses to them. So, so here we are. Wow. That’s amazing. So, uh, so what we got though, from a Japan pavilion actually is pretty spectacular. It’s one of the best, I think, executed pavilions, for one, without a ride. So this is, think, you contrast what Japan has with what Germany has, neither pavilion has a ride. I think Japan is much more interesting. Number one, it’s got a huge retail space, the former Mitsukoshi department store here on the ground floor. Up above you’ve got two different restaurants. You’ve got Tokyo dining and the grill. But farther back though, they’ve used the space farther back now, they’ve got a sort of a food retail thing where you can do sake samples. And then to the right, they do, they always do some sort of Japanese art. It could be, you know, cartoons or animation. One time it was tin toys, sports. And now it’s been, for a couple of years now, it’s been spirited animals, but it’s… It’s an interesting display because it’s a nice little walkthrough too. But at the same time you look literally you see this gateway. This was how you were supposed to enter. You go through these double doors and in fact you can actually see the giant set of doors that were going to be meatballed. Oh yeah so we’re actually walking farther into the Japan Pavilion. We’re coming up on the… If you guys are familiar with it you walk towards the back and there’s this nice little bridge. And it’s a sort of covered arch and you walk through the arch and I think there’s what? There’s a horse? A horseman? A samurai on horse on one side but then it’s a huge set of very formal, very heavy looking double doors like eight inches thick each and then that leads to the bridge and then that leads to the back part. It’s set up like a a courtyard like an imperial courtyard. Absolutely. But at the same time it was you driving you in again you literally that’s where just meet the world right there. That’s where the sign was supposed to be. Wow. That’s impressive. Yeah. This is a this is a great entrance. So you walk past you walk past the entrance arch and there’s this moat on a castle and you’ve got these huge rocks going up you know three or four stories to this curved sort of Asian art curved arts roof roof line and you’ve got you’ve got the it is like it’s like entering a castle this is fantastic. The color scheme is very consistent you’ve got the grays you’ve got the dark woods going in but it’s really a well conceived attraction. You have this dramatic entrance to nothing. You’ve got gallery space. again this could have been a ride. But the funny thing is that again Eisner comes on board he walks around Nebcar it’s like look we need thrill rides. and one of the things they were looking at is like, well, it has no mountains. So there was one weird moment where they were not only talking about building, know, bringing the Matterhorn, which by the way, the Matterhorn, they tried to bring the Matterhorn to Florida multiple times. fact, it was… is the world’s first tubular steel roller coaster. hear anyway, it’s a rumor going around. But Nunes actually wanted to build it in the back of Fantasyland. In fact, what he wanted to do was that the train would go through the Matterhorn And as you the train was rolling through they do a snow scene and you will literally get the blast of ice nice nice But here you know that so they had the model and so they think they drop it in behind Italy and Germany and it’s just like okay could work there, but here they were thinking well wait a minute Why don’t we do a Japan bullet train? What’s your mouth Fuji? Okay, but here’s where it gets interesting so yeah, why couldn’t they make a double train well? Here’s the problem you start by being Mount Fuji When the film company that you have to deal with for the entire theme park is Kodak. Okay, Fuji film. Yeah, so so they were so the the Kodak has got wind of this and said Can we have a call? Can we have a phone call on this? So now the project gets named Fire Mountain. good. Fire? Sounds like Adventureland. Okay. But, you know, but again, this is Eisner walking in the door. This is the Hollywood guy. And it’s like, you know what? Need something in there. And I swear to God, I mean, this sounds so unlikely, but I have talked to the Imaginers and they actually showed me the drawing. The bullet train was going to bring you three times over the course of the road in close proximity with Godzilla. me counterintuitive because you’re running out of energy at the end of a roller coaster. But you looped over Godzilla’s head and through his mouth and then you went into a… Like as the mouth was closing?
Jim Hill: Well just, I think he was… Oh he’s eating you. He’s supposed to be eating you. Ah, so again, if that was the concept I totally would not have got it the first time I wrote it. But again, it was one of these things where they went to Toho and Toho said, that’s very nice. And we would like this much money. And Disney said, don’t really like it that much. Toho being the guys that own the rights to take Godzilla. There you go. So again, propose, not build.
Len Testa: That’s amazing. So the Godzilla thing would have been interesting. And the funny thing is, is it probably would have looped back now because there was a mini Godzilla revival. Five years ago, right? But who knows what they could have done with with Disney’s with Disney’s backing on it. More to the point, there’s another Godzilla movie coming in like weeks. Is there really another Godzilla movie? Yeah. Really? So we’re walking up on we’re walking up on Morocco right now past and again, is is food and wine. And it’s more importantly, it’s food and wine in the afternoon past quitting time when more locals are out. We’ve got quite a quite a crowd coming up on Morocco. Morocco, Jim, actually, I think is my favorite pavilion in all of World Showcase. love the design and I love the architecture. I was young the first time I came here. Did they used to be a film here?
Jim Hill: No. No film? was just imagining? They had a tourism video something? I mean literally there was one of the shops that sort of had a magic mirror.
Len Testa: That’s it, that’s what I remember. Let’s walk through the Morocco Pavilion. It honestly has some of their very best theming. So the thing that I like about it is the paths aren’t linear, so it kind of curves around. And there are multiple ways to get there. It’s almost like a Moroccan market. The no one ever goes in the sword. We’re facing the pavilion You’ve got the sort of the archway the blue archway in front of us to our left is a is a display on Moroccan style. So it’s personal artifacts from Morocco. I swear to God nobody ever goes in it. We’re standing here right now No one is is opening the doors. It’s air-conditioned. It’s quiet. I guarantee Jim we go in there’s two people or less now Let’s go try it out. So we’re going through the Morocco pavilion one of the interesting things about the Morocco pavilion is that If I understand correctly didn’t didn’t the king send over like his personal? is personal artists to work on this, but so we’re in the space and there’s exactly two people besides Jimena. But it’s totally funded by the royal family. It’s a wonderful space, by way. It’s really nice. So the thing I love about this is we’re into the, we’re into the Morocco, by the way, Jimena and are the only people in the Morocco Valley, but look at the intricate tile work of the stucco on the walls. This isn’t just a flat wall. There’s All sorts of geometric patterns in the walls and each one these are done by hand. This is not, know, hey, we’re going to stamp this out in a factory in China and we’re going go do this. This is all done by hand. It’s amazing. The tile work, but even look at the ceiling. The ceiling is the same way. Literally it’s floor to ceiling. Nothing but detail. The intricate artwork on the wood that keeps you on the sides. It’s really nice. All of the tile work, mean years and years and years of craftsmanship went into this. You smell the leather. smell the It’s right. It’s cool in here. dark, it’s quiet, it’s incredibly detailed. We’re entering what might be actually my entire favorite space in all of Epcot. So you go through the back door of the Moroccan style display and you enter into this fabulous courtyard. It’s a two-story courtyard and there’s a fountain in the back. It’s two stories, you look up top and it’s incredibly detailed. all tile on the bottom, tiled columns, it’s got four columns on each side. It’s just a beautiful space. It’s open at the top, it’s a square. On the bottom floor is nothing but tiled walls, blues, yellows, reds, greens. On the second floor is sort of a white wash, a white stucco with brown wood balusters all around. then these incredibly, these very pretty lamps in shades of yellow, green, and red. And it’s opened up to a beautiful blue sky. The thing I love about this is… It’s a great place to sit and relax. Very few people ever come in here, very few people actually make it this far back in the pavilion, number one, Number two, it’s got little benches set up for just sitting and relaxing, and you notice it’s all in the shade too. And then you’ve got the fountain over here, so you’ve got a little bit of noise. I think this is my favorite space in all of it.
Jim Hill: Yeah, and the sad thing is the time this most often got used. Do you remember when Hulk Hogan and Chris Lemon were shooting that action series here? This was… They did that on Seven Seas Lagoon. Well, but you you remember they fought terrorists. they were literally… I mean this became the unnamed Arab country in countless… Morocco did? Yes, in countless episodes. So they would stay all sorts of… you can hear this tranquil, wonderfully detailed courtyard would be full of, you know, squibs and the fake machine guns so Hulk and Chris Lemon could defeat the evil. But yeah, that was in the day when they were using Epcot basically as their backdrop for these foreign sets. Yeah, traveling the world.
Len Testa: So now we’re in the very back of the courtyard. We’ve got there’s again. There’s another front in the distance. We’ve got a restaurant Marrakesh here. Have been in a restaurant Marrakesh?
Jim Hill: Yeah, it’s one of my favorite restaurants and it never gets it’s never crowded by the way Do see the see Heather doing water runoff here on the walls? So the water comes up from the ceiling and then it runs down instead of pouring off It comes down here and then ends up circulating here. It’s a very nice way of doing I love Morocco. No, you have to, if you’re going to make it back to Marrakesh, you have to do the tea ceremony here. Have you ever done that?
Len Testa: No, I’ve never done this tea ceremony. What time is it? time do do it?
Jim Hill: Actually, I’d say, again, I did this like five or six years ago. I’m not sure what the times are today, but it is such an elaborate presentation. mean, it’s at the restaurant, at the restaurant, a tea ceremony. Then it’s they do this, this hot mint tea that you, it’s so counterintuitive. You would think you’re in Florida. This shouldn’t be refreshing. It’s mint. It’s mint and it just it’s gotta be cool. Yeah. No, no, seriously If you can make sure to get there for the tea ceremony, it’s just it’s amazing. Is it part of a meal or you just just show up?
Len Testa: Well, they get it. That’s the weirdest part is that they get so little attention back there. It’s true, know, it’s like hi We’re here for the tea ceremony. Oh, okay so it’s funny cuz Morocco is number one Morocco is my the restaurant where I take people who Don’t aren’t sure whether they’re gonna like ethnic food Number one, because you can always get in last minute. Number two, literally every single person I’ve ever taken here has been surprised about how good it is. There’s really nothing wrong with the menu.
Jim Hill: And more to the point, this was actually the first pavilion that was built after Epcot opened. Obviously China opened somewhat late and there were individual films and that sort of thing. But this sort of gave you the sense of what they could do if they had full support and full money. From a government-sized entity. Have you ever been to a tangerine cafe by the way?
Len Testa: No, can’t Oh, it’s fabulous! So they’ve got shawarma, so they’ve got lamb and chicken and beef and stuff. It’s really good. Yeah, actually it’s one of the… We ate here for our pre-half marathon lunch. It was great. But you know, the saddest part of this story is that there are so many people who will use the bathrooms next to Morocco, but will not go into Morocco. The bathrooms are pretty popular, but yeah, it’s amazing because it’s a wonderful… it’s a wonderful attraction. Hey, between here and France, there’s actually enough space for a small pavilion. Like a Luxembourg. Not a pavilion, but the actual country itself. Actually, what’s fascinating, if you ever manage to get backstage… You mean legally yes all right between France and Morocco Every single one of the food things that we’ve the little individual food carts that were walking by here the pork yep Whatever they that’s where they live the rest of the yeah. So we they they walk us back there for the before the marathon and the half marathon so it’s funny because you can actually You know you’re walking back there. It’s like four o’clock in the morning They’re walking you back to the race start for the half marathon so you’re going behind stage backstage at the and you’re walking past the food and wine booths, but they’re just shuttered. They’re all there. You can see the names on them. You can see Belgium and Canada and stuff like that. But there’s nothing there. It’s really weird. It is, is.
Jim Hill: But at the same time, I’m just a fan of how the machine that is a theme park works. Yep, and that’s where they store them. They don’t store them in a warehouse. They store them outside. I think they just touch up the paint every year. No, that’s it. That’s it exactly. Just dress them up, them out. They’re there for the six weeks and they sit and wait for the next Seat Center shows. Sure, so we’re walking away to France right now. So we’re packing passing back the Crepes stand and then there’s a champagne stand. To our left is, is this Chef de France? Which is amazingly popular. You’d think French food would not be that popular.
Len Testa: The thing that I like about France, it feels like France, right? So there’s little alleyways and stuff that you walk through. The thing that amazes me about the attraction, well two things really. One is the film hasn’t changed. Number two, if you’re looking at the pavilion, so we’re facing the Eiffel Tower, the Chefs de France is to our left. We’ve got fountains in front of us. We’ve got the film straight ahead. There’s a pretty big distance between us where we’re at and the right. It’s a garden and then there’s a huge space back over here that really isn’t used for anything. If you go past the Parfumier, there’s really nothing over there. you wonder like, was that… Let’s walk this way. Walk it up. So we’re walking up the street. We’ve got, again, we’re walking. Chef’s is on our left. Impression de France. The theater is in front of us. We’ve got the perfume place to our right. But Jim, I want to show you this over here. This is where I think they should have moved the patisserie over here and put the parfumerie over there And I don’t know why they did it because if you walk through here Alright, if you walk through the the Beaux Arts gallery In the library, there’s a there’s a lovely little arcade right here, right and it’s sort of like a French arcade, right? Like they have in Disneyland Paris, but you walk through this side and we’re walking through it now. It smells really good actually. So after a day of walking around in front of a smelly tourist to walk through the perfume place in France, by the way, is a huge, huge relief, I must say. So we come out on on the quai, and there’s nothing here. Okay, they’re getting ready to do an aurora meet and greet or something, but, but there’s really nothing, I this is beautiful space. You’ve got flowers everywhere. You’ve got, you’ve got the, the river and the, the lake in the background you’ve got this it’s usually a paris behind you look there’s like six people here this this to me is like this is a completely unused space okay.
Jim Hill: there was at one time a plan for a crazy cabs through the streets of paris ride i mean a kind of a mr toad’s wild ride. The wild ride to Mr. Toad?
Len Testa: the wild ride to Monster Toad. There we go.
Jim Hill: As opposed to… I’m not doing the frog-leg jokes. The why… No, wait. It actually… Sorry, I’m doing iterations of this joke. It’s the ride wild to Monster Toad. There we go. But, you know, they just recognize… In fact, that’s… I remember… Talking with Gary Goddard about this and they were you know after a while it was like they were doing every pillion It’s like you gotta be kidding me. It’s another movie, and we need rides We need rides and so they wanted to do you know just figure it’ll be fun We’ll just do so a silly version of Paris and the car will rock back and forth and you know and in the end You know they did the proposal they had the artwork They just couldn’t find a sponsor and more to the point a lot of the people they approached you know neck you know you know Like the car company so it’s got a Peugeot and it’s like you know it’s like you know they were offended you know Tom you know everybody they went to.
Len Testa: And really it’s funny because I’ve seen the theme park attractions that Peugeot sponsors. They could do better. So they’ve actually got this ride in Alton Towers. It’s Peugeot mini drivers or something, whatever it’s called. But it’s the lowest capacity theme park attraction I’ve ever seen in my life. There’s no way it can get 60 people per hour, 60 people per hour.
Jim Hill: If you could go out and give people massages faster than that. Yes, so Peugeot could have done better. So I think they said no to the wrong company here. But again, so many of these Epcot pavilions were supposed to have a phase two. mean, for example, we’re going be crossing the bridge shortly. we’re going over this bridge. Is this the that was inspired by the Pont des Arts? That’s That’s correct. But for England alone, there was the English Music Hall. There was the River Thames attraction. There was even the Christmas Carol ride through. all of them designed. know, mean, that one, literally you were going to go buy show scenes out of Christmas Carol, whether it was the ghost of Christmas present. Just thinking of the souvenirs. And actually, Germany has a little bit of a Christmas place, but they totally could have done that. Wasn’t the postcard invented in Greek? The Christmas card was invented in Greek. I believe so. I do believe so. But in the end, it opened. Epcot did OK, but not the sort of attendance levels that Disney had promised and that was kind of the beginning of the end for that iteration of the Disney Company’s management team. That was when the green mailers may begin. Right, That’s the beginning of the end and the entrance. So here’s the funny thing, Jim. So we just walked through German sausage. We walked through pasta in Italy. We walked through baklava and coffee in Morocco. We just walked through wine in France. Now they make you walk up a steep bridge. is really your car. Are you dead yet?
Jim Hill: Well, you know, that was always the story about Alfredos. that yeah in Italy yeah I mean so yeah so fettuccine alfaretto is like 27 or 2800 calories right most of it bad fat literally people go in and eat the giant bowl of you know fettuccine carbonara and start to walk around the world show because and literally they’d make it in fact my understanding is they literally begin to put the the tribulators either side of Italy yeah it’s like okay so you know they typically make it as far as Japan you know so we’re gonna put the So if we need to run electrical lines for the defibrillators, it’s gonna be Japan.
Len Testa: That’s awesome. That’s beautiful. Alright, so we’re gonna walk through the English garden here. You know, Jim, as far as I’m concerned, nothing says a walk through the, a trip to the English countryside, except for meeting a man named Trevor. Hello, Trevor! Oh, Doctor Who? Actually, Timekeeper, but okay. There we go. So we’re walking through the back of the UK pavilion right now, which has like… England, think, is an old country. It’s what, three, four, five hundred years old? Just kidding, just kidding. Don’t want to get into all that. It’s got examples of every piece of English architecture here. It’s also got a nice little hedge maze, which is pretty popular in English amusement parks, by the way. And the backspace here is lovely. Number one, it’s quiet. There’s only like three people here. Number two, it’s shaded and they’ve got benches. But here, right in front of us, in fact, you can see a little bit of the International Village. we’re actually walking towards the back of the UK. We’re facing out towards the landscape. And behind us is what used to be the Millennium Village. Remember back in 2000, was a big… Epcot was the host park for the Millennium celebration. We’re looking back towards the structure that hosted the Millennium Village stuff. That was, by the way, if ever there was something that was designed while people were on drugs, Millennium Village. Absolutely. Do you remember the Israel ride? So it was a ride through biblical times and I swear to God, this is actually the first conversation you and I ever had where I knew that we would like each other. Chim and I are talking about the Millennium Village ride and we’re recounting our experience going through the Israel ride. So you got on board a ride and it was like a motion simulator but it didn’t have a roof so you were looking at a film projection and you met, was it Moses?
Jim Hill: yeah. met Moses and he was taking you through history.
Len Testa: And I was telling Jim this and we both said it almost exactly the same time. Like literally 30 seconds into the film, didn’t you think you were in a Mel Brooks film? at any minute you were waiting for the 10,000 year old man to come out, right?
Jim Hill: I’m 30 seconds into this thinking this is either incredibly bad or it’s going to be the best Mel Brooks thing ever. And Mel never showed.
Len Testa: And he never showed him. Yeah.
Jim Hill: But literally, if he would have showed up at the end, would have been brilliant parody. Speaking of Mel, and we’ll get to this at some point at the studio, but remind me to talk to you at some point about Hotel Mel, where literally, the Tower of Terror was going to be basically in celebration of young Frankenstein. Actually, I got… Craig McNair Wilson who worked with Mel on this thing said it was the greatest gig in the world. were never going make the attraction but Mel would come over every Friday to the Disney studio and we worked for like a half hour and then he’d go on the patio at the Disney studio commissary and he would proceed to tell his show business stories. It was the greatest time of my life. Great, great, great stories.
Len Testa: Line, we’re coming up on World Showcase players here. I think we’re gonna have to walk around them to get to the UK. But there’s your first iteration of Street-Misphere. That’s right, it was, wasn’t it? Yeah. Let’s walk through the sports shop here. The SAC Theatre created these, was so successful. In fact, again, that’s Craig McNair-Wilson, who worked with them and helped develop these shows. and he in turn went off to do all of the Street and the Sphear for Disney Hollywood Studios, or then Disney and Jim. Yeah, the Street and the Sphear characters are actually very, good. I like them a lot. like them quite a bit. So they’re also using this store as part of Kim Possible, right? one of interesting things about Kim Possible is you can actually go in the stores and do interactions.
Jim Hill: Yeah, mean, that’s actually one of things I love about that game. And in fact, it makes me a little concerned about Trying to sort of retrofit that sort of next-gen adventure into… The Parks, mean, for example, they play-tested and prototyped a National Treasures version for not the studios, mind you, but for the Magic Kingdom. it totally would have worked in the Magic Kingdom. Well, it was around Liberty Square, was around Frontierland, but in the end it was just sort of like, this was kind of when Nicolas Cage was spinning in and the worry was, I don’t think we’re doing National Treasure 3 now, though. Bruckheimer insists they are, so, I mean, it’s a good franchise. was great. it’s, know, I get it. So it’s one of those things where, well, how many American conspiracies can we get into? Yeah, that’s the thing. It starts to look like a, was it Dan Brown? You read the first, what was the first one?
Len Testa: DaVinci Code. The DaVinci Code, yeah. The first one, can cut it. The second one, you’re like, okay, I get the picture, right? You don’t need to go on for 500 pages. Did you have a third one? He has a third one too, right? Yeah, yeah. In fact, isn’t that to be coming out? I’ve read two. I literally have read them all.
Jim Hill: All I know is that both Tom Hanks and Ron Howard are like, you know, we’re good. Yeah, you know what? It was a magical time in my life. I will always remember our collaboration fondly. Thank you. Good night.
Len Testa: That’s why we’re coming up on Canada right now I Do love a Canada. I’ve been in Canada many times. She went to Vancouver this summer. It a lot of fun. Thank you people in it What do they call people in Vancouver Vancouverans? Lucky so Vancouver the people in Vancouver have to be the luckiest in the world number one They’ve got the mountains number two. They’ve got the ocean number three. They’ve got free health care And they’ve got martin short actually. Did you see Martin Short do the cameo on How I Met Your Mother?
Jim Hill: No! He’s doing How I Met Your Mother now. It a circle. Oh, cool. It’s nice. Good for him.
Len Testa: Alright, you wanna walk up? Sure. So we’re walking up the Canada Pavilion right now. Maple Syrup to your left. The funny thing is, Circle Vision closed? Oh, looks like it’s closed. Oh, enter right and it’ll show you. Are they doing construction here? Yep. Jim, did something used to be in this building?
Jim Hill: okay, sorry guys, sorry. in neglected dimension, so the hotel facade is completely wrapped right now in some sort of construction wrapper. So it’s the picture of the facade, but you can’t actually see the building itself and behind it is more construction stuff. Looks like they’re doing something on the inside. Restaurant space? They wouldn’t put up a wrapper that big unless there was something going No, absolutely, absolutely. But again, remember what we were talking about in regard to what was going over at Mexico. this is, you know, sort of take an individual element, buff it out. You know, they have just, well, not just, we’re talking two, three years now for the Martin Short thing. They’ve redone that. They’re looking to do some new entertainment offerings. But at the same time, it was what we were talking about earlier, that I’m always fascinated by these wraps that they throw around the buildings because it’s… It’s actually a guest recovery thing that they found that people complained less about their photographs being ruined by construction.
Len Testa: All right. If they just threw a blue tar, people would freak out. Yeah.
Jim Hill: But now to have something like this, which means that it’s an approximation of what the building looked like. It means your shot still sort of kind of works. Yeah. If you’re not looking really closely, if you’re looking at the people in the picture and not the buildings, it kind of makes sense. Absolutely. And what do you think is going here? So by the way, so we’re looking at the back of the pavilion. To our right is, sorry, our left is the retail space with the giant totem poles in front of it. But then the main building itself, again, a huge wrapper. If they were just painting that, well, I guess they could be just painting it, but that seems like an awful lot of detail just to paint. You know, to be honest, I haven’t heard anything about this, but I will go dig and find out. interesting thing is, and I’ll just mention this, there is no counter service restaurant in Canada. And it’s extremely difficult to get into La Celia because now it’s a, so it’s a two table service credit signature, Disney signature restaurant. No table service. If I had to go out on a limb here, I’d say thats either retail or it’s dining because they’ve gotten neither. Now we do have, you know, I’m looking at both stairs and a ramp, so it’s ADA accessible. There’s nothing there. mean, there’s actually nothing back there either. So on either side of the building, so you’ve got some of sort of like Newfoundland type stone cottages to the left of the path and to the right you get the huge building. You could put a kitchen there.
Len Testa: but isn’t this the queue for Icar- Oh, Canada.
Jim Hill: No, no, the Q’s the Q’s from the back. Remember you go up the stairs? Well, that’s what I’m saying. get past the waterfall and then you down the stairs and then you go to the left. Well, but this is still the feeder line for that, right?
Len Testa: So it’s got a… The feeder line, goes, goes, well, number one, when was the time there was a line that long for Oh Canada? Alright, never mind. Number two, even if there was the line, they’ve got, remember inside Oh Canada, they’ve got that huge lobby to hold some people. Then you could back out all the way. If you wanted to run the queue, you could run the queue towards the water- falls and leave this just for a restaurant service. Oh, all right. We’ll meet back here at the next podcast.
Jim Hill: Yeah, we’ll meet. Yeah, so maybe six months from now we’ll redo this one.
Len Testa: Let’s walk past LaSalle and see what’s going on. Have you been here since it’s been the two-table service credit?
Jim Hill: No, I have not. But again, I know about the dangers of eating cheese soup in Florida. Yeah. It’s lovely.
Len Testa: I told you the story about meat and cheese soup, right? No. So Pam Brandon writes the Disney cookbooks for Disney. She’s one of the authors of the Disney cookbooks. I contacted Pam and I said, hey, I love the cheddar cheese soup at Canada. Can you send me the recipe? So she sends me the recipe and now I’m a guy, right? The idea of proportion in dining doesn’t do me any good. I should have been suspicious when the first ingredient on the list was a pound of bacon. I wanted a cup of soup, Jim. She made me two gallons of soup. but you know, once you start making it, So I made two gallons of cheddar cheese soup. So it’s bacon, onion, cream, and it’s like four pounds of cheese, right? Like a gallon of heavy cream, like two chopped onions and a pound of bacon plus the bacon fat. And that’s all I ate for a week. At the end of it, I smelled like onion and bacon. It was just exuding from my pores, but I was so happy. What are the point that it says something about your health received that you your heart valves did not close?
Jim Hill: That I didn’t seize that I didn’t seize it So we’re looking over the butcher gardens the gardens thing you get the little building in the back That’s actually the sort of the cast member stuff for the very we’re looking back towards the Rocky Mountains. It really is a lovely pavilion. It’s one of the most scenic. I think it’s a villain What’s interesting is that you know in fact we’re working at another Weathal Rogers was the guy who did a lot of the mountain sculpting for Disney. Yep. And it’s it’s interesting to watch how he worked and you know I mean he did Big Thunder he did and if you compare the work that was done here with say the work that was done on Expedition Everest right clearly you know there’s a level of sophistication you know to building fake rocks. yeah yeah I mean if you think about how Expedition Everest looks as compared to the rocks that we’re looking at here which so the Expedition Everest mountainside is much more weathered and pointy here the rocks are much more angular Again, the edges are rounded so it’s gone through some weathering but they’re much more chunky I would say.
Len Testa: Yeah, but again the interesting thing is when you’re down in among it, when you’re walking along the stream, you buy this. totally, yeah could be in a canyon somewhere in the Rockies. You can’t buy off on it quite as well, where on the other hand Expedition Everest works from a lot of different angles. Yeah, from the bridge in Africa, from the bridge coming in from Dino Land. all just works. true.
Jim Hill: That’s why, you know, I of all people I’m going to be fascinated to see how they pull out Pandora. know, just the whole notion of… That’s a huge engineering and design problem. That’ll be interesting. I did get somebody though to confirm that this may be the place where, and I guess they’re doing the daytime test to see if they can pull it off, but have you seen the magic, the memories in me show on that’s projected on yeah, it’s fabulous. I think it’s better in Walt Disney World than in Disneyland.
Len Testa: Well, in fact, I was watching it from the bridge into Fantasyland near Tomorrowland. You’ve got a much bigger chunk of the castle. It’s better canvas, yeah.
Jim Hill: Yeah, because they do it on the small world facade, which is pretty big actually in Disneyland, but it’s not the same sort of scope as the castle. But supposedly the projection effect that they do for the castle is how they’re going to do literally the moon of Pandora. the shimmering? It’s a great effect. Yeah, no, absolutely. For those of you that are listening that haven’t seen Magic Memories in You, a couple of things. One, go out on YouTube and look for the show. But number two, look for the similar kinds of effects. The first time I saw it was in Europe, actually, back three or four years ago. They had taken a house for Christmas and had done a ghost project- Sorry, Halloween, not Christmas. Had done a ghost projection on the- So they made the actual- The house turned from a regular house to a ghost house. So the house became a ghost. And it turned from brown to white and then it shimmered and stuff. was amazing. So they can do that with Pandora. That’s interesting. And in fact, to sort of bring this full circle to do the, back to who we started talking about today, John Hench. John had this idea, mean the interesting thing is Disney attractions have to be, you know have to have so many people go through them an hour, have to, you know, that they have to be, you know, have to be able to operate, you know, seven days a week. Yeah. And John proposed, look, what if we went the other way? What if, you know, for example, we had a vacant lot on Main Street and and then the sun goes down and fog rises up and then you look back in the lot and there’s a house there that wasn’t there before. Nice. literally you enter the attraction through that. It’s just the whole notion of doing attractions after dark, doing special shows. In fact, they did a full presentation. They did a mock-up of Pirates of the Caribbean. The interesting thing is in the Pirates of the Caribbean building, the boats are actually kept inside the building but they’re gonna track thats just behind the facade yep which means there’s an entire loop that people don’t go on and so the idea was that when the Sun went down the attraction would close for about a half hour they’d reset so literally you now would float through these new scenes and now you would just do these projected light effects where you know you you’d have your pirates but now they you’d project desiccated faces on them and you’d then also send people through the back section and have an entire new show scenes. Nice, nice.
Len Testa: But again, that’s, that, this is, you know, the problem is again, you’ve got to get thousands of people through an hour and more to the point people get disappointed if they can’t get on their favorite attractions.
Jim Hill: Right. So yeah, you can’t limit it to 500 people a night or something like that. absolutely. Ah, it’s a shame. Ah, this is wonderful. All right. Well, any, final words on Epcot, Jim?
Jim Hill: I think we should definitely revisit this in, six months or so. No, no, absolutely. Absolutely. No, Epcot is, you know, it’s an ambitious park that, you know, in the end, when you look at the craft of it, I mean, Yes, you know future world is a little too corporate and yes, you know, there aren’t enough countries. But when you think about how many people come here and particularly this time of night after work on a month random Monday. Yeah, I mean, you know all the locals that turn out or how many of the other parks, you know dump get it out of. I mean think about you know Animal King’s Coldest League at five today all the people who are coming over here to eat and to enjoy this and to have a site You know right by the water to watch a Lumina—
Len Testa: I mean, this is how tens of thousands of people every night end their Walt Disney World vacation. It’s true. You know, it’s not a bad way to go. It’s the place that I end up every night. It is my favorite theme park and I’m excited to see what might develop here. Alright, well for Jim Hill, this is Len Tosta. Thanks very much for listening to the show. There are a couple of other episodes available for the Animal Kingdom, for the Magic Kingdom Resorts, and for the Magic Kingdom. We hope you guys listen to that. Thanks very much for listening and we’ll talk to you soon.
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Podcast
Epic Universal Podcast – Aztec Dancers, Mariachis, Tequila, and Ceremonial Sacrifices?! (Ep. 45)
Release Date: April 4, 2025
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Jim Hill and Eric Hersey return with more Epic Universe updates, rumors, and retro fun. From the Universal Portal Tour and Express Pass prices to Ghostbusters speculation and a throwback to Universal’s 1968 Mardi Gras event – this episode covers it all.
Eric’s Surprise Trip to Universal During Blackout Dates
Eric and his family were gifted a last-minute timeshare trip to Central Florida for Easter week. Unfortunately, their Power Passes are blacked out during the exact dates they’ll be there, leaving them with only April 12 and 13 to squeeze in a visit.
Jim’s Delayed Visit to Epic Universe
Jim shares that Nancy is scheduled for hip surgery on May 20 – just two days before the park opens. With flying and long drives off the table during recovery, Jim is likely postponing his first Epic Universe visit until September, possibly during IAPA.
Epic Universe Portal Tour Coming to Five Cities
Universal’s hype-building campaign hits the road with immersive Portal Tour setups featuring Kronos Tower photo ops, props, characters, and a collectible passport. Stops include:
- Orlando, FL – April 6 at Lake Eola Park
- Atlanta, GA – April 13 at Atlantic Station
- Philadelphia, PA – April 20 at Penn’s Landing
- New York, NY – April 27 at Flatiron Plaza
- Chicago, IL – May 4 at Pioneer Court
Permit Filed for Rip Ride Rockit Demolition
Universal filed a permit labeled “Project 902” that hints at demolition and reconstruction at the Rockit site. While no official confirmation has been made, the language in the permit strongly suggests a major change is coming.
Ghostbusters Attraction Rumors
Fan speculation is swirling around a potential Ghostbusters-themed attraction replacing Rip Ride Rockit. Reddit and forum posts mention a vertical layout and the possibility of reusing the New York backlot theming for a ghost-busting shooter or dark ride. Jim and Eric discuss the likelihood – and whether Fast & Furious is the more realistic option.
Monster Makeup Experience Now Bookable at Epic Universe
The Dark Universe land is offering guests the chance to become a classic Universal Monster using real prosthetics and special effects makeup. At $149.99, the package includes the transformation, a collectible lanyard, themed box, and photo ops.
Jim questions whether this experience will last or suffer the same fate as past attempts like Disney’s Pirates League. Eric compares the time and money commitment to face painting and Bippity Boppity Boutique.
Express Pass Pricing and Ride List Revealed
Universal confirmed the pricing tiers and eligible rides for Epic Universe Express and Express Unlimited. Prices start at $89.99 and may increase on peak days. Eligible rides include:
- Stardust Racers
- Mario Kart: Bowser’s Challenge
- Curse of the Werewolf
- Hiccup’s Wing Gliders
Drone Show Uncertainty for CineSational
Following an FAA suspension tied to a drone incident in Orlando, Epic Universe’s planned drone elements – including flying dragons over Isle of Berk – may be delayed or canceled entirely.
Jim notes that Disney encountered similar drone setbacks, with examples like the Quinjet project and Fantasyland dragon. Operational challenges and legal constraints often ground these high-tech spectacles.
History Segment: Mardi Gras in Mexico (1968)
Jim walks through the history of Universal’s 1968 after-hours “Mardi Gras in Mexico” event – a bold experiment in entertainment that included Aztec princesses, tequila tastings, and aerial performers.
The event featured:
- A recreated Mexican village marketplace
- A sacrificial princess stage show
- The Papalanta Flyers – performers who dive from a 100-foot pole as a ritual
Jack Benny’s Vault and the Creature Photo-Op
Universal originally planned a walkthrough attraction based on comedian Jack Benny’s vault, complete with gags from his TV show. When the vault concept was scrapped, they replaced it with a photo-op featuring the Creature from the Black Lagoon. The illusion used a curtained window and well-timed movement for a practical jump scare.
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Podcast
Walking Disney’s Hollywood Studios: Lost Attractions, Muppet Studios, and Imagineering’s Unbuilt Dreams
Join theme park insider Len Testa and veteran animation historian Jim Hill for an immersive walking tour through Disney’s Hollywood Studios. In this episode, the duo explores the fascinating architectural history of the park’s entrance, uncovers the high-stakes corporate deals made with MGM, and pulls back the curtain on legendary, never-built attractions—including the mythical Muppet Studios and a massive Monsters, Inc. roller coaster. Whether you are a lifelong Disney fan or an architecture enthusiast, this deep dive reveals the Hollywood that never was and always will be.
Walking Disney’s Hollywood Studios: Lost Attractions, Muppet Studios, and Imagineering’s Unbuilt Dreams Transcript
Len Testa: Hi, welcome to another episode of the unofficial guide to Walt Disney World Disney Dish podcast with Jim Hill. I’m Len Testa. We’re here today at the Disney Hollywood Studios, the one park that we’ve not yet covered. Jim, we have a lot of pressure here because, as you know, sequels are an embedded genre within the American experience and there have been some very good sequels. The Godfather 2, The Empire Strikes Back, Break Into Electric Boogaloo. There’s a lot to live up to. Do you feel any pressure here about getting started?
Jim Hill: Well, you took my electric boogaloo joke. Sorry, man. Pressure. What pressure? I’m fine. All right, we’re All right, so we’re starting today. We’re just at the entrance of Disney’s Hollywood Studios. We’ve just passed the entrance, actually, past the turnstiles, which are designed in a streamlined modern architecture. We’ve got the Oscar’s super service across from us. And we’re standing in front of Sid Kahuna’s One of a Kind, Antiques and Curious. Jim, what do you think of when you first get to the?
Len Testa: the studio’s entrance.
Jim Hill: The reason this park is the way it is, is because of Epcot. You have to understand that, you know, you’ve heard the joke, the acronym, that with Epcot is everybody comes out tired. That was a massive park and opens in 82. And they learned the hard way by creating this giant park with huge roadways and that sort of thing that people got overwhelmed. so when it came time to do…
Len Testa: you know at that was then known as disney and jam they bob weiss did a very clever thing they think you know just you knew from the complaints that they had to get if they had to address it make they literally hit the reset button and went back to disneyland and so what’s really intriguing about and jim is in fact that sadly the had a sort of disrupted this but
Len Testa: the cd literally bob got the length from the entrance of disneyland coming under the train station to the castle and that’s literally the distance from the gates here to the compete all its interest in stiles to the convention is the same distance as the exact same distance more of the point again or the the if you honestly if you take a look at it the scale of the buildings here along hollywood boulevard are disneyland it’s that intimate you know again the notion of let’s have an intimate experience in hollywood
Jim Hill: as opposed to a large grandiose experience. more to the point, that’s also why he picked the period that he did. This is all, all the architecture here is from 1920 to 1935. You know, and all one year, but again, what’s fascinating about it is.
Len Testa: Each of the individual buildings here, the Crossroads of the World icon building to Darkroom, these are all legitimate buildings in Los Angeles. You can go see some of them. That’s right. But that Bob himself stitched together to give this unified view. It’s incredible. But no, it’s a beautiful park, and particularly at night when the neon goes on. It’s very pretty at night. It’s actually a great park for architecture. Absolutely. Absolutely. And in fact, what’s kind of ironic about this whole thing is that as the guys were designing,
Jim Hill: Cars Land for California, they came out to study the neon here. Nice. but I know it’s a very charming park except for the screaming people. There’s always screaming people in a Disney park. So Jim, know a couple of things or a couple of design elements on every Disney entrance.
Len Testa: are the same. So you mentioned, I think when we go through the Magic Kingdom, they’ve got things like the camera shop on your right and we’ve got the darkroom here. What else is the same? What else is similar on the studio? Well, again, if you think about it, pretty much if we go around the corner here, the little coffee shop, that sort of thing. The notion is that people, as they’re entering the park on the right, are looking for things, whether it’s sunscreen or hats or I need my coffee and my donut. It’s right there.
Len Testa: Sadly though, the design of this park kind of falls apart once you get past its main street or its retail corridor. Why is that? Well, part of it is because, you know, for example, Sunset Boulevard was never built the way it was initially intended. That, you know, Tower of Terror was literally supposed to be one of five e-tickets that were going to be built over there. really fun. God, between Dick Tracy’s Crime Stoppers.
Jim Hill: know, Roger Rabbit’s Choontown Transit. was some amazing stuff that was gonna be built back there. Wow. Is it still on the drawing boards? mean, still stuff that they… Well, they’re probably not gonna go back to Dick Tracy, but… Well, the interesting thing about that one is that they actually built a full-size mock-up in the warehouse in Tahunka. And even when Dick Tracy was not doing the business that they’d hoped…
Len Testa: They were still trying to sell the Oriental Land Company on building it. And so a friend of mine who actually worked the mock-up said, the thing is the Oriental Land Company executives never travel alone, they always bring their wives. And so here are all these nice demure wives of giant corporate citizens of Japan.
Jim Hill: you know so they’ll go to the to the warehouse and they literally watch their husbands do the demo nearly drive around and and it literally there in these forty style
Len Testa: The
Len Testa: And it turns out the Japanese women were so much better and lethal and blowing. They were like, can we go again? It was like years of suppression and aggravation. The Japanese executive gave kind of a cursory, it’s like, okay, this is cool. The wives were blowing up the room left and right like, this is great, we gotta build it.
Jim Hill: Sadly no, did not go ahead with it. Let’s do this. Is there anything else on Hollywood Boulevard descent that we need to discuss? Otherwise we’re going to to the left. Well it’s worth noting, in fact, again you gotta remember this was the first park that was designed understanding that was going to have street-mosphere. for example… they specifically designed… really? Craig Mcdowell, Tony, in fact just up here I believe… we’re walking up towards the Keystone Clothiers.
Len Testa: water pipes in that the cast members could open and close. know, the Hollywood, you know, the Department of Public Works would have props to work with. that’s classic. You know, you know, example, the windows here. wait, we’re, we’re… made them practical so people could open the window and yell down and heckle at other people in the street. so at the, on the vintage shops in the, What’s that, what’s that store right there? the, the hat store. There’s a, the windows actually open?
Jim Hill: yeah, you know and I guess the other thing that frankly got lost here was that if you were here during the the first six opening months of the place You know, for example the five and dime literally had five and dime merchandise I mean you could go in and get you know plastic bracelets and I mean you walked in and it was the 1940s It was amazing. That’s fantastic
Len Testa: But, you know, again, the design continued right up to their castle, the Hollywood, you know, the Chinese theater. In fact, the only thing that Disney did differently, they literally, they got them to unearth the actual blueprints for the Chinese theater. I mean, it’s, you know, the exterior detail is dead on.
Len Testa: Right up until the actual roof, which they extended slightly because again, this is supposed to be the Hollywood that never was. So just to give it that little bit more of a fantasy edge, a little more of a fun edge. That’s right. The roof is sort of in the real Grumman state of the roof is sort of shrunk a little bit. It’s not quite to the scale of the rest of the building. This is the stuff I like this. So we’re standing outside right now. actually on at Sunset Plaza and Echo Park Drive. It’s the back of the Clothier shop and it’s still really well themed. It’s sort of an Egyptian.
Jim Hill: sort of theme in the back, right? Or a Chinese theme in the back. And it’s an ATM machine, but it’s surrounded by these giant dragon mouths, almost like lions guarding the gate of an estate. And that’s the thing that’s ornamenting the ATM machine, which I really love. mean, that kind of detail is lacking in a lot of other parks. Here, it’s wonderful. Absolutely, absolutely. But again, you know, the…
Len Testa: But these parks reflect the times that they were built. you have to remember that when this park was built, know, we’re talking, know, Disney turns the key on it basically in 85. And there was considerable pressure to get this built because, know, Universal. That’s exactly. And Eisner was privy to what Universal’s plans were. knew when it was going to open and we had to have this open ahead of that, you know, to claim the higher ground. And but the problem was that, again, this is 1985 Disney.
Jim Hill: that they haven’t really had a hit film since Herbie the Love Bug in 69, which is why they had to go out and literally cut the deal with MGM, to get their film library, to get people and characters to drop into these parks. How hard of a deal did MGM drive knowing that with Disney? Well, that’s an interesting part of the story, because it honestly wasn’t a very good deal at all, that for $100,000 a year,
Len Testa: starting and then it would creep up incrementally over 20-year period till, you know, final one licensing fee of a million dollars per year. Disney got the MGM name, they got, you know, Leo the Lion.
Len Testa: and they got access to basically their entire film library. $100,000 for the first year? When Kirk Corian found out he was furious, Kirk Kirk Corian, the head of MGM, and he actually spent the better part of five years in court trying to get the name away from Disney, because of course… After they signed the contract? Sellers regret? You Because again, you have to understand that this wasn’t just going to be a single part. There was a Disney, MGM, Japan in the works. There was a Disney, MGM,
Jim Hill: In it’s part of the opening special for Euro Disneyland. They devoted five minutes to get the studio part. Well, they had to do that contractually for Paris, right? Yeah. But anyway, so they were really struggling to find things to fill this park with. So the nice thing is that MGM is filled, excuse me, that Imagineery is filled with all these film buffs. So for example, we’re standing across from Min and Bill’s here, Wallace Berry. That’s right. There’s a lot of great…
Len Testa: affection for film history here. Again, the front part of the park holds together. It’s again, we begin to wonder out things get a little weird. That’s right. So we’re over in Echo Lake right now. Jim mentioned Min and Bill’s. we’re we’re we’ve got our backs to the Hollywood and Vine restaurant. And notice that the there’s office rents signs that say no actors. That’s great. And then in front of us is Echo Lake. Looks like they’re doing a little bit of construction or they’ve they’ve drained Echo Lake.
Len Testa: Oh, mean, it’s Winsor & McKay. mean, literally, first cartoon stuff.
Jim Hill: Clicking on buttons.
Len Testa: But speaking of cartoon searches, over here, know, 1928 building here, just behind that, we have the Eddie Valien’s offices. In fact, that was honestly when this park opened in May of 19, May 1st, 1989, that was the biggest film Disney had done up until that point. So Roger was everywhere in this park. You know, I mean, they literally painted his little pink feet, well, giant pink feet on the pavement to lead you around the place. Oh, that’s great.
Jim Hill: In fact, the finale of the backstage tram tour was as you came through New York Street, you actually passed the Acme warehouse and here was the dip machine out on the street spraying you. If there are any tunes on board, they’re in trouble. Oh, that’s great. All right, so anything about the Tune-In Lounge or 50’s Primetime Cafe? Well, now this is a big favorite restaurant. fact,
Len Testa: This was sort of the starting point of a new form of Disney dining. Really? Well, think about it, prime time. mean, you’re eating in these highly themed nooks and here’s mom feeding you comfort food. And not only that, mom gives you attitude. mean, this is kind of on the parallel track of, you know, this came into the world about the same time the Adventurers Club did. right. You know, the notion of let’s do Disney show but in a different way. And, no, there’s a reason.
Jim Hill: that this has stayed as popular as it has. People just walk out of here and evangelize for the dining experience. She made me stand in the corner because I didn’t eat my vegetables. It was cool. It was cool, exactly. Oh, funny. It’s not a bad restaurant. The bar was actually pretty good, too. Have ever had the peanut butter and jelly milkshake? Not with my cholesterol. No. It’s actually pretty good. We’re walking up towards the Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular. Now, here’s something interesting,
Len Testa: So we’re walking up towards it. On the left hand side we’ve got the Indiana Jones Adventure Outpost, which is the store where they sell all the stuff. But if you go back a ways back here, they’ve actually got props. Have you seen these? Oh yeah. They’ve got props for the Indiana Jones show. They’ve got tanks and cars and stuff. But nobody ever goes back here. Is it a standing room only area? Is this where the queue is supposed to go when Indiana Jones becomes popular again?
Jim Hill: You know every 20 years, you know, if you actually look in the ground here You can see the recessed points where yes that the you know, the the poles are supposed to go in and direct people back Yes on the ground that folks know these little circles these little brass circles where the the velvet rope as it were would that would go but in the very back here back behind the Man the sound stage. We’ve got we’ve got army cars. We’ve got the national lifestyles tank
Len Testa: We’ve got like a camp and stuff, all the stuff that very few people ever see. Yeah, I mean this is prop work that actually they pulled from Last Crusade. And in fact, that was what was kind of interesting. I have to remember that when this first opened, Last Crusade hadn’t been released yet.
Jim Hill: and 89 right and so what ended up happening was they are remember very simply being here for uh… the the opening press event and they’ll only showed the sort of the the the giant you know fight on the wing part of it uh… because again this was still in technical worse with that it stayed in technical reversal to well into the middle of the first summer of operation here because they were just weren’t but you know it’s part of the press conference you know people ask well all right
Len Testa: So this references the first film and a little bit of the second film. Will we see, you know, pieces of threefold internet? It’s like, well, we hope so, you know. I guess we should be happy. They didn’t continue that. We’re now watching the Crystal Skull Show. The interesting thing is you mentioned the Prop Shroom 3 and you notice on the left hand side of the tank, the art, our right hand side.
Len Testa: There’s the gun turret that exploded when Indy the rocket. That’s it exactly. And the only reason I that was because Last Crusade was on TBS last week. I happened to see it. Other than that, I know nothing about the movie. We named the dog Indiana. Is there any plans to refurbish Indiana Jones? boy. You would think that because it’s a stage show and they’ve got such elaborate props that refurbishing the show is like a multi-year project.
Jim Hill: And Disney doesn’t do multi-year projects like that well. That’s one of those things where the budget has to be done in a year. Look, I’ll tell you from having been down here in 95, 96, in fact I was here for an after hours event.
Len Testa: It was, it’s the Minnie’s Moonlight Madness. It’s, it’s, you ever heard about this? It’s a cast member event held after I was in the park where you’re bungied to three or four of your friends and, you know, racing through the park, answering trivia questions, that sort of thing. my then wife, Michelle Smith, and I had done it the year previous with, literally, my daughter Alice, it was only like three or four months old at that point, and she was in a Snuggie.
Jim Hill: Tied to your chest. Tied to my chest. That’s great. And they didn’t have an issue. So we went the next year to do it. We literally brought Allison a stroller. And nobody caught us till we were literally in the backstage area where suddenly this is rather a Fisher’s manager. It’s like, you’re going to have to take your child out of here. And it’s like, you know, this is a contest for adults. And it’s like, but she was here last year. It’s like, well, that may be the case. But it’s like, car is miles away. I have a giant Emil Younga stroller. The guy says, all right, tell you what.
Len Testa: know, one of you, one of your two parents are gonna have to stay out. So, and watch your child. But I can take you to a conference room backstage where you can sit and watch television, and it’s like, you know, and it’s like, okay. And we’re grumbling the whole way, and they take us deep into the administration building to, open up a conference room, and literally, the walls are covered with all of the concept art for Fantastic Cover. And you’re like, I’ll stay. I’m good, I’m good here. I’ll stay with the baby, I’ll stay with the baby, I’ll stay with the baby, I’ll stay with the baby. She loves me more!
Len Testa: Literally, you know, it’s like I’ve been there for hours sucking the art off the wall. I mean this is version of Fantastic for example that instead of the Pocahontas canoes had the Nautilus and the idea was that Nautilus came out from stage left the squid came from stage right and Mickey’s on stage and again I honestly wish they’d done this because it’s Mickey on stage playing this giant organ that’s belching steam and there was there were two versions of the art one was just Mickey, know hitting the organ and the other one was Mickey literally with the half mask for Phantom
Jim Hill: Look away So but among that to bring this full circle But among the pieces of art that’s always on the wall were all of the expansion pads for this part And one of the things they designated was right behind this area here You know, they’ve literally the overlay and on it said Indiana Jones adventure as in they were seriously considering in the 95 96 timeframe Pulling this down and dropping the Indiana Jones adventure, right?
Len Testa: from Disneyland in the park. Really? Yeah. That would have been interesting. It’s one of the few rides where I would say cloning it is probably an okay thing. It’s a good ride. Oh, I agree. And if you had to get rid of this for that, think everyone would say, most people would say that’s a fair trade. Anyway, long story of the story is I wish they had invented the digital camera 10 years I was gonna say, yeah. Kill me, kill me. Jim and I are right at the Indiana Jones prop that says warning, do not pull rope. So we’re gonna pull the rope and see what happens. Here you go.
Jim Hill: come on! Fuck, man!
Len Testa: Alright, that’s a little treat for you guys. Alright Jim, let’s keep going through Echo Lake. So we’ve got, we’re passing Indiana Jones on our left. It’s shuttered right now because the first show it’s not till I think 10.30 or so, 11.30 so we got a lot of time there. They’re doing a one, two, three, four, five shows today. That’s actually not bad for a late February show. We’ve got, we’ve got coming up straight ahead what’s left of Sounds Dangerous Jim.
Jim Hill: Sounds dangerous. Well, you know, now it sounds seasonal, you know, and more to the point if what they’re saying is true, we’re going to see that, what is it? comedy warehouse show come back. Did you see that during the holidays? No, I did not. heard great things about it though. Though I also heard that frankly that, you know, when the fire marshal came through and saw the amount of equipment, you know, again, you need a lot of equipment in the theater to actually do this.
Len Testa: It was one of things where it’s like, you can’t actually put that stuff against the door! So I saw it actually over Christmas, between Christmas and New Year. yeah, it’s a relatively small stage. They had drawn a curtain behind sort of half the stage. on it was every imaginable prop that they would have needed. So they had the piano, they had boxes full of…
Jim Hill: large, goofy hats and costumes. And then they had a blinking Christmas tree, which was, you because it was seasonal and stuff. that was good. It actually wasn’t a bad show. You could tell, though, that the improv guys hadn’t done improv like that in a long time. I think we caught one of the first shows that they had done. you could tell everyone was a little rusty. Parts of it were very funny. Parts of it were, you know, I just need to get through the next 30 seconds of this skit type thing.
Len Testa: And that was interesting. I’d love to see them bring it back there because it adds a little bit of, you know, the old days, you actually had more live performances here. no, no, absolutely. I mean, that was the whole point of this park. It was designed with street-mosphere. You would literally bump into the citizens of Hollywood. And, you know, now, you know, it’s just that, again, it’s the classic battle between budget and ops.
Len Testa: So that’s not an expensive thing to do though, Or is it the performances, the performers themselves that… Well, it’s not just that. mean, think about it. You need six equity performers on stage. You also need a sound guy. You need a light guy. You need a person standing backstage.
Jim Hill: you know, house manager. It just suddenly becomes really, really, really expensive. that’s true. we’re over… by the way, is there any reason why they couldn’t bring back the Monster Soundstage? Does anyone know who Chevy Chase is? They could do it. He needs one more vacation film. They could do it. I think it was more the case of not so much…
Len Testa: Again, not 1899 anymore. 1989 anymore. Just the post-show stuff of maintaining those props, let alone the 3D sound show, which again was supposed to be the savior of the park. That’s interesting. So we’re over in front of Star Tours right now. Have you been on the Star Tours too? absolutely. Yes, yes. think? It’s a wonderful update
Jim Hill: of the pre-existing attraction. Though the thing I personally like about it is that, for example, the pre-show is now four times as long. mean, just literally, you could stand there, they figured there were gonna be more people because of the multiple rides going through multiple times. So they literally created four times as much material in the pre-show area. There’s more audio, there’s more in-jokes, there’s more, and it just goes deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper.
Len Testa: Um, you know, likewise, um, I mean, when you think about how much footage they put together for the, multiple versions, uh, you know, that, that, that a, it was talking with somebody who would literally take six hours to write every iteration of this thing. And there’s all sorts of in jokes and, know, they, the guys that look at someone nuts, they just literally, they, they, you can rewrite this thing for days and not see things or see things you’ve never seen before. That’s great. So.
Len Testa: Has the ride lived up to Disney’s expectations regarding number of visits and number of guests that have been on it? Actually, no. In fact, again, that’s kind of a sore point. They did not get the attendance bump, at least here at this park, that they were expecting. It’s vastly more popular in California. Absolutely. But again, you have a culture out there that goes once every six months. And so it’s exciting for them to, let’s go on Star Wars and see if we can get a different version. We’re here, I mean, again.
Jim Hill: you you’ve all people know how often people come back here it’s what three point seven years is that that’s that’s that’s that’s that’s few years between between visits you know i just eat it it didn’t hit the way they expected expected they’re genuinely intrigued to what’s gonna happen when they open in japan though
Len Testa: Oh yeah, that will be interesting. Because Japan is a much more local thing too, so that might work out well there. I wonder if they take that into account when they design rides, like how much of this was going to be local population? Or is that something where they’ve only done it a little bit, they probably don’t have enough data to know really whether something’s going to be a hit with locals or not?
Jim Hill: Well, it’s finessing that. A mindset that they’re just coming to for Disneyland though it’s kind of ironic because of course they’re finishing this billion dollar makeover of DCA which they’re hoping will finally turn Disneyland from, and I mean this in the kindest possible way, the world’s most famous regional park to an actual resort, a multi-day destination resort. you know, mean yes, they fill those hotels but not nearly as much as they’d like. That’s true. We’re over in the Muppet Plaza right now, right in front of
Len Testa: Muppet Vision 3D. Are there any plans to redo any part of this attraction or the area based on the Muppet film? You the Muppet film, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, just a nice updating. To be honest, right now we are literally in the crucial moment with the Muppets. The movie, this… It did $88 million, right? Stateside, which is literally two-thirds of what Disney expected. in fact, well, they took…
Len Testa: It’s interesting. They took the numbers that Enchanted did, they took the numbers that Tangle did. The last four holiday films that Disney had open in the Thanksgiving period and averaged them and that was a hundred and thirty-five million dollars domestic. And so it’s like, okay, that’s what we should earn off of this thing. And it literally came in at two-thirds of that and…
Jim Hill: It’s an interesting situation because within Disney, it’s like, look, the franchise was dead. You know, I mean, we brought it back from the dead and this is going to pay us dividend dividends. But, you know, we have to put the time here. We have to put the energy in. And, you know, so you’ve got to be patient with this. You can’t expect this to just catch fire overnight. It had been neglected for a long time. But again, this is Disney, you know, owner of Marvel and all of its own characters. And it’s like in order to devote more time to bringing back the
Len Testa: Muppets that means money and time and energy has to come away from somebody else. So right now literally there are accounts at Disney just you know the blu-rays and the DVDs of Muppets are in the boxes shipping to stores and it’s like okay let’s see what those numbers look like. Now to be fair here I was just talking with the Muppet folks and they say they are busier than ever.
Jim Hill: Did you ever think you would you would under the line? I was just talking with the Muppet folks Go ahead. Well, they take in there are people who put their hands up these creatures Okay, you know and get a little handcrafted poor Dave Gold’s the guy who’s been doing gonzo for 30 plus years at this point literally had shoulder surgery because after all these years of standing and holding things up and he He’d blown out his arm. know, I mean again, there’s there’s whole aspects of this that people don’t know about but yeah, if
Len Testa: If the DVDs sell well, there’s a couple of things they’re considering. One is a holiday edition of the 3D movie, but would literally repurpose footage from the Michael Caine Christmas Carol.
Len Testa: and put there were so many things they left on the table that would been here with the old pizza planet was that you know this was in the initial plan this was going to be the the swedish chefs cooking school television and you know get a quick search interest from but you walk through under all these screens of the swedish chef cooking things and then mama melrose was literally going to be you know the great gonz’s pandemonium pizza parlor where dinner
Jim Hill: It was going to be amazing. mean, like when you look at all the woodwork and beams overhead. At Mama Melrose’s or? How thick there. There was a reason they were going to do practical, you know, little rat hand carts that were rolling around the restaurant with Parmesan cheese and boxes of pasta that was supposedly going in and out of the restaurant. the great thing is that, again, supposedly there was going be a common kitchen here.
Len Testa: Again, there’s so many great gags that got left on the table here like Who is this again? The guy who does the boomerang fish? All right But he was literally going to have a store here and you’d look in the window and there were gonna be little rubber fish flapping in the window and spinning I mean this was gonna be muppets floor to ceiling. So we’re back now behind We just passed pizza planet on our right. We’re back in front of The engine company number one the Parkside antiques you guys know where the snowman is
Jim Hill: on the the on the ground there’s there’s a Christmas store and then we’re directly facing mama Melrose is in the front so the so that was going to be Gonzo’s pizza parlor yeah and just and the great thing is you’d be eating in there and you’d be watching an overhead monitor and Gonzo would backstage in the kitchen standing in front of like the vent you know and if this we’re having trouble with the vent and Gonzo would get on the stove and sort of reach into it and you’d suddenly see him sucked up into the vent work and now in the restaurant you’d actually hear him
Len Testa: moving through the vents overhead and know, 3D audio sounds of him and Camilla clucking, you know, just like, wait, I think I can find our way out. know, it’s just so much wonderful stuff. But the killer, the absolute killer thing they were gonna do was just past here. In fact, we’re coming up on the backside of Muppets past on the Melrose’s. Now there’s a, so this is the exit to Muppets and where they do the Phineas and Ferb meet and greet now.
Len Testa: And literally, some of you may remember this, if you went on the tram tour in, I want to say, 90 or thereabouts, you would have passed a fence, construction fence here, where Sweetums was looming over it. you know, and sitting on the fence next to him was Robin. And this was where they were going to build Muppet Studios. And this was going to be the home of the great Muppet movie ride. And had the meanest, funniest jokes in the business.
Jim Hill: Literally, the idea was it was a riff on the great movie ride. And you’re going to be riding in little individual Pargos, sort of the golf cart things. actually, it starts off just like the great movie ride. You’re going to see that you enter this room that’s big screen clips of famous movies, only it’s Muppet versions. And so, for example, you’re seeing the scene from Dr. Zhivago where it’s the…
Len Testa: It’s Piggy and Kermit in a sleigh where snow is blowing in their faces. And Gonzo, who’s the director and the host of this attraction, on an armature and says, do you ever wonder how the movies are made? Well, follow me. You literally duck under the screen where you’ve been watching Kermit and Piggy in the snow in the sleigh. Now what you see are Kermit and Piggy inside of the world’s largest snow globe that’s being held by four puppet monsters that are shaking it. They’re little prouder than you are.
Len Testa: It just went on and on like that. I mean, they had so many wonderful gags. They did, for example, a monster movie. Only it’s Dr. Bunsen Honeydew as Dr. Frankenstein and it’s a 12-foot-tall beaker.
Jim Hill: They did this great riff on Disney animated films. They literally took you into Peter Pan theater the bedroom of Wendy Michael and John right only it’s it’s Kermit as Peter. It’s what he’s already got the green. Yeah, I it. It’s scooter as John and I’m blanking who Michael is but of course Tinkerbell is picky
Len Testa: Alright, and the thing is that she’s hanging off of this ridiculously strong rope and she’s swinging that out of control going through all of these back but you go behind the scenes and this again like 12 puppet monsters holding this rope straight in. This was all, mean Henson himself was so excited about making this attraction because he was, for his way of thinking…
Jim Hill: The Muppets were always, always, always, you know, meant to be audioanimatronic figures. Really? Because what do think about how limited they are? That, you know, if there wasn’t a person on planet who understood more, you know, the limitations of puppeteering. Right, yeah, that’s true. And, you know, that’s all audio animatronics is. And so it’s like he could not wait to make this a direction. And then, of course, you know, he dies of bacterial pneumonia.
Len Testa: The Henson family and the Disney family have been horrible falling out. Yeah, 20 years. Yeah, gone. That’s a shame. We passed an area where we’re doing Phineas and Ferb meet and greets and they’re actually out right now as well as, looks like some cars meet and greets. Are there any plans to do anything at all with Phineas and Ferb? God. Phineas coming this summer only gets huger. There’s the teal takeover.
Jim Hill: there’s a special Phineas and Ferb series of episodes coming this season where Perry the Platypus disappears and literally seriously and for and that it becomes where has Perry gone for an entire summer people are looking for Perry and then you know then he’s magically revealed and saved.
Len Testa: But, well, I blew that story. Now I don’t need to watch it. you go. But now that’s it. You know, if anything, they’re getting bigger and bigger. In fact, there is.
Jim Hill: I’m kind of not happy about this change, but there’s some serious conversations about taking Kim Possible. I heard this. Because again, the interesting thing is that Kim is still considered quite viable by the company. In fact, what’s kind of interesting is this summer in June in Long Beach, for the first time ever, they’re having a Kim Possible convention. It’s literally called a Kimvention.
Len Testa: You know, there’s a number of people at Disney who really believe that, look, we have this amazing franchise, we should be paying attention to it, but the problem is that Mark McCorkle and Bob Scully, the guys who created it, actually left Disney and are now working for DreamWorks Television Animation. They’re the ones who doing the Penguins of Madagascar show.
Jim Hill: It’s a similar humor. I you know that I really like a Kim Possible Jimmy just the names alone But the the interactions that Kim has with her parents absolutely are hysterical absolutely It was really well written. No. It’s a great show and and it’s it’s a franchise that I think the company should definitely do something with
Len Testa: Is that the reason why they stopped doing Kim Possible because the two lead guys left? And the saddest part of it is that they were going to do a Kim Possible live-action film. And in fact, they wrote a script that the studio absolutely loved. In fact, they loved it so much they turned to Bob and Mark and said…
Jim Hill: We’ve got this other script. He such a nice job with this. Could you punch up this other thing for us? Do you remember the film Sky High? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, superheroes, kids, yeah. Flying bus promo. And it literally, it’s like, you talking with Bob and Mark later, it’s like, we screwed ourselves out of a job. We did such a nice job of punching up the Sky High script. went, you know, we can always go back and do the Kim Possible thing, but we were working on Sky High for a while now. You did a nice job. We’re going to go with this, but we’re going to circle back in your thing. And they never did. Ah. That’s shame. Yeah, because it’s a franchise. They’ve done well with it.
Len Testa: And it’s… you never get that resolution of it like it just ended. No, that’s it exactly. To talk about Bob and Mark, they actually ended the show twice. They had literally, they wrapped up the third season, were sending her off to college, and then suddenly they came back, could we have like 13 more episodes? was like, Another end!
Len Testa: The Phineas and Ferb feature length film is coming. yeah, this is not a drill. It will be out mid July next summer. Really? Yep. Wow. So mid July 2013. Fantastic. So, but again, I don’t know how much juice you can actually get out of a platypus, but they’re going to do everything they can. Yeah. It’s good series. By the way, if you guys can hear us here in the background, we’ve got some traffic and that’s because we’re on the streets of America walking down
Jim Hill: past the Chinese restaurant, past used guys, we made a left and now we’re heading towards the Lights, Motor, Action, Extreme stunt show. wanna say something? Well, you you have to understand, again, when this park opened, Disney really struggled to find things to put into this park.
Len Testa: One of the things they cut a short-term licensing deal for the character Jim Carrey’s character ace Ventura detective Literally they had a stunt show out here on that corner where you know Ace was trying to save the albino bed Which was this obvious piece of rubber dangling off of the side of a building But you know they hired a Jim Carrey look-alike sound-alike it was
Jim Hill: the most god-awful thing but again they were trying they were making a legitimate effort but again this is part of the problem with new york street
Len Testa: This was never ever designed to be a guest, know, area that the guests were supposed to be able to walk through. This was always supposed to be viewed from the tram. In fact, coming up here, I remember going through this on the tram. This is right here, the Acme warehouse. This is as you headed back into get a tram offload. This is where the Acme warehouse was and where the the dip mobile would manage you. Let me just.
Len Testa: but they use the space over here after they decided to close it off of the board to do it so you know they were uh… what is it the goosebumps show was done here the teenage beat the turtles were here uh… you know the uh… i’m blanking the japanese fighting kids uh…
Jim Hill: body more from power rangers you blink on the mighty morphin power rangers time i can’t i’m sorry i have a daughter okay general just impossible remember so that’s the this area actually is pretty pretty good for the the osborne family spectacle absolutely absolutely so if there’s one redeeming thing that for three months out of the year
Len Testa: talked about that that that’s what you have to ultimately do with a Disney theme park is sometimes you will literally hold areas in reserve for that three months out of the year that you need them and the rest of the year is just like well what is here it’s like well it’s an interesting place you know if they put like tables you know and on the in the alleys and stuff you could actually have a nice little picnic area if they ever do something similar here
Jim Hill: like they did at the Animal Kingdom with the picnic in the park, you can throw some tables back there and people would like that. Today it’s not particularly sunny, but you so you could maybe put a little, some canvas.
Len Testa: over the tops it wouldn’t be bad at all. funny you mention this because one of things that this area is constantly used for is corporate events. mean they’ll set up the rounds here, they’ll give you food, whether it’s presenting a concert or that sort of thing. That’s nice. Alright we’re back behind Backlot Express.
Len Testa: I don’t know, this is always the interesting part of the park for me because again, this is, you gotta remember that this was how, when this park first opened, this area was never really meant to be open to the public. fact, on Mickey Avenue we’re looking Is this the back lot? Yeah, well, motor of the this was back of the house. mean, this walkway that Mickey Avenue, you know, Toy Story Mania and all that is located on, never intended for guest driving, never. Alright, you know, the original version of the tram tour, you it was a two-
Jim Hill: hour long experience. You got on the trams up toward where the animation building is. You then came backstage, they dumped you out here where you had an opportunity to eat, had the opportunity to go to the Acme gag factory with lots of interactive stuff. But then you begin your walking tour. You did? right, it a two-part tour. Yeah, and there wasn’t a mother on the planet who came in here with a stroller that was told you have to leave your stroller outside here by the tram tour. It’s like,
Len Testa: Let me explain this to you. This is a child. All right, it wears a diaper. All right, I have one diaper with me. All right, this is not gonna end well. This four-hour tour of yours is not going to go up. And you know, that was it exactly. That they had basically riots, you know, among parents and it’s like, okay, fine. This is officially open to the public now.
Jim Hill: But you know, I remember, you know here on opening day because they were again, they just opened they They really struggled to make this place look big and exciting and one of the things they did literally where we’re standing here right now Yeah, we’re by the way, we’re right in front of the bacala tour behind the the Muppets show building If you guys are familiar with the park, know that giant coca-cola stand is right in front of the the bacala tour entrance That’s where we are. So to make this seem more exciting than it actually was
Len Testa: for the 1985 version redo of Fantasyland at Disneyland. They actually built a giant inflatable, maleficent as a dragon balloon that they draped over, it literally loomed up out of, was taller than Sleeping Beauty Castle. so, you know, and it put its arms out, you know, on top of the castle and it was this killer shot, you know, they, they…
Len Testa: But again, they used it for a couple of weeks that they opened, you know, that park and then it went back into warehouse and somebody remembered. And so for the opening day, it’s like they inflated and put it here. so. And between the bathrooms, you know, but it’s like, wow, that’s amazing. That’s a killer prop. And disappeared overnight, never to be seen again. That’s it. Yeah. So back somewhere in the back lot in the in closet, a very big closet somewhere. Keep your eye on eBay,
Jim Hill: So, So, well, what are they, this is the hot set. They used to do a, we’re walking towards Pixar Place and we’ve got on the left what used to be the old Mickey meet and greet. What are they doing with this space? think it’s fairly large space. they ever actually get off to pot, is the Monster’s Inc. coaster. In fact, this is where it’s gonna go. Yeah, you know, and again, I know there’s a lot of people.
Len Testa: over the story and get a double of this thing is coming but uh… it’s kind of the fascinating story of the wall does the company how it operates at the cast members usually they had to know cast member newsletters the the eyes and ears the distant line couple years ago they started using what they call the cast member portaling literally you go back to a sit down at a video screen you can access your health files you could but among the things they did to get people to actually use this thing is the included
Jim Hill: little films that Imagineering had done, know, about upcoming projects and you could see behind the scenes stuff. And so what ends up happening is one night at midnight. One night at midnight. All right, you know, people who work on Third Shift, I wake up in the morning and I have literally eight emails from people. It’s like, my God, the cast portal has all this amazing artwork and, you know, a film up about the Monsters Inc. coaster. Have you heard anything about this? And it’s like, I’ve heard that they’re considering doing it.
Len Testa: But what they ended up doing was that by the time they woke up, you know, literally, nine o’clock in the morning, West Coast time, 12 noon, file got pulled down. Somebody by accident had put this thing up and it went live. And then, you know, but this was summer of 2008. And then we, of course, we had the banking crisis in the fall. And this thing literally moved, you know, not to the back burner, but way off the back burner. But if you can actually get into this building, they literally have spray painted on the floor.
Jim Hill: where the supports are supposed to go. mean, this is… You know, they were ready to roll with this thing. And in fact, that’s always been, for a number of you all I speak with an imaginary, it’s like, that’s the canary in the coal mine. If when they green light that again. And what’s interesting is if you know your Monsters Inc. you know, for example, the design look of the world of Monsters Inc. Take a look at this bridge.
Len Testa: It’s so though. It’s the bridge that identifies the beginning of a picks our place. It’s sort of a steampunk brass always in X’s Support beam thing, but that’s straight. You know they pulled that design on what straight out of Monsters Inc. So again
Jim Hill: this will eventually continue straight on into this building. That’s good point because on the other side it’s a brick. That’s exactly. Smart. More to the point, know, again, to give you some idea of the insane level of detail, the colored brick here that’s used here is actually, you know, the color brick that’s used for Pixar headquarters in Emeryville, California. mean, nice. You know, from where the old Demelty plant used to be. But anyway, mean, here again, this is is my problem.
Len Testa: Look at this street. Look at how crowded this street is now. Yeah, so we’re inside Pixar Place right now. We’re walking up on Toy Story Mini. It’s immediately to our left. We’ve got one of the green army men signing autographs. Actually, the line isn’t for a Monday in the end of February. The line isn’t terrible right now. It’s only 40 minutes. It’s like 10 o’clock in the morning. That’s actually not bad. It’s a pretty moderate day here at the studios. But yeah, you’re right, Jim.
Jim Hill: The Pixar place is not a wide street by any means. you come here in May, June, July where it’s holding the heat and you have record crowds and it’s it’s unpleasant to come down here. Yeah, mean it’s hard to… So two reasons. One, when people see the line for Toy Story Mania in the morning, everything just backs up. Number two, the way that they’ve got the FastPass machines oriented, the lines stretch back into the walkway which makes it even more difficult to get through this place because…
Len Testa: The line for Fast Passes in the morning for Toy Story Maynard could be 10-15 minutes. No, absolutely, absolutely. And again, but when you take into consideration that, again, space never meant for the public, and yet you look up and you see the glass bridges, the walkway that connected the sound stages, and again, that was another thing that bit them in the butt. They totally convinced themselves that if they built these enclosed walkways that people
Jim Hill: would have no problem. know, filmmakers said, no problem, people are looking at me while I work. I have no problem with this. And it’s like, exact opposite. They were, they spent more time hanging drapes for the few productions that actually came here than, you know, just never ever worked the way it was supposed to. This never became, you know, Hollywood East. I mean, we had a couple of relatively high profile things, mean, like the Tom Hanks mini series from the Earth to the Moon for HBO. that was here? Yep. I love that series.
Len Testa: You know, though actually a more telling film if you can, you know, if you can, if you can watch it, actually personally enjoy it. But if you watch Ernest Saves Christmas, it was the first feature film shot here and it’s actually shot as they’re constructing the sound stages. So there’s one point where Ernest has disguised himself as a snake handler. And if you can look over his shoulder, it’s literally, they’re filming on the construction site. There are sound stages being built behind it.
Jim Hill: What’s an artist film that budget was relatively low? that’s the other thing. It’s shot totally in Orlando. So they’re shooting action scenes out on World Drive and it amazing. So we’re in front of Walt Disney One Man’s dream right now. Any place to do anything with this attraction? I kind of like it the way it is. It’s got a ton of detail. Well, as long as D23 continues with the company, this will be safe. You know, that right now it has a sponsor.
Len Testa: And D23 is the sponsor? Oh, D23 welcomes you. Oh, that’s an addition. So as long as that stays alive and well, this will be here. But again, the irony is this exhibit was actually designed for the first iteration of that attraction, which was supposed to be inside the hat, which is supposed to be outside the entrance of this park.
Len Testa: Really? Yeah. They were gonna put all of Walt Disney One Man’s Dream inside the hat? It was supposed to be the entrance to the building, and then behind it was gonna sort of a standard warehouse type of building.
Len Testa: We’re walking through the the animation arch right now. We’ve got We’ve got Little Mermaid here on our left. We’ve got the magic of Disney animation in front of us You can hear in the background a float going past and on our right. We’ve got the Disney jr. Live on stage Jim is there anything going on with with Voyage of the Little Mermaid again? This is the the Energizer bunny of shows for Disney that every two years or so they talk about changing this one out putting something new in here, but Ariel remains
Jim Hill: such a driver of merchandise and such a popular character. It’s just sort of like, why spend the money to replace something that works? And so, there she’s still here. Yeah, there’s actually a line going back now for the show lining up. They don’t use FastPass for this anymore, but it still looks like, FastPass doesn’t work for shows in general. So that’s not an indication of the popularity of Boys of the Little Mermaid. It’s just, FastPass doesn’t work well for shows.
Len Testa: That’s interesting. they’ve got no plans to do anything with the show? Well, again, it’s why fix what ain’t broke. Mind you, got to remember that Mermaid replaced the show itself back in 8990, Here Comes the Muppet Show, which again had one of my favorite moments out of a Disney theme park show in that, you know, the entrance of the Electric Graham and Dr. Teeth where it’s just sort of like…
Jim Hill: you everyone’s late for the show but it’s okay that they’re taking the monorail over and Kermit’s like the monorail doesn’t come to Disney House, does now and it literally bursts through the wall and the characters spill out of the monorail and here’s you know here’s Animal reaching down off the edges of the edge menacing the first row and it’s a giant and it’s a it’s an animal walker on costume, it’s a rubberhead and you know from there it was just one of these things where it’s like it’s okay he’s eating today don’t worry about it
Len Testa: which brings to mind that the time that you know then first lady barbara bush broader grandchildren here along with the secret services christie wants to give her a good show so they put her in the front row with the so here comes animal reaching off the stage in the secret service stands up and it the story doesn’t end well but that’s it with with three secrets of the sky’s attacking animal
Len Testa: And again, it’s pre-recorded, so the audio is still going on while get a… audio, poor animals being wrestled to the ground. It’s hysterical. I would love to have seen that. What’s going on with the Magic of Disney animation? This is like one of those shows that could use a little TLC, I think. It’s just so sad because we are in, obviously, a transmission point. mean, remember, when this was initially built…
Jim Hill: you actually had the working Florida animation studio back. That’s right, they did like Brother Bear and they did a couple of other things, right? They did wonderful stuff here. did, you know, fact they, know, Mulan, Lilo and Stitch, you know, along with some killer shorts. and I still to this day insist that they should have left feature animation or hand-run animation up and running here and just made the change out in California. But when they made the decision in 2003 to literally consolidate the units, they shut down Paris, they shut down this studio.
Len Testa: They moved everybody to California. you know, don’t get me wrong, Disney is rebuilding. Obviously, Rapunzel, you know, was a hit and hearing some amazing things about Wreck-It Ralph. and it’s official. We do have another princess or excuse me, a queen movie in the works now. thank God, because I was worried that there weren’t enough princesses going on. But they’re doing the Snow Queen. It’s actually. really? Yep. And the title has gone from frozen to frosted. So, you know. Frosted like.
Jim Hill: Like this thing. Well there you go. Tangled, frosted. Yeah, so. Get your adjectives here. Lolly, lolly, lolly. No, no, it’s Adbirds. Sorry. Yeah, sorry, wrong thing, but still same idea. What about Disney Junior Live on Stage? This is new. They actually do keep this up.
Len Testa: every four five years or so they’re doing a new stage here. think because it’s relatively straightforward to do that. And more to the point, we are literally weeks out from the launch of Disney Junior. This is what replaces Soapnet. This is the standalone Disney Junior channel. Honestly, at Toy Fair just ten days ago, Disney revealed they have 130 different Disney Junior products in the works and that’s just wave one.
Len Testa: Wow. know, mean, no, this will just trust me. This will just get bigger. And if you think you’re paying attention to it now, just wait. The amazing thing is that there’s I don’t see a gift shop over there. Give them time. Yes. Yes. Gift shop, Mr. Testa. Yes.
Jim Hill: And now again, this is this is what just kind of makes me sad we’re walking up on the other Hollywood brown derby We’ve the animation courtyard. I like the brown derby quite a bit. It’s a little expensive But it’s a it’s a great facility But did you remember when this was actually? backed up against another restaurant the soundstage restaurant the Had the bar above the yeah, those were the days Jim those were the days But they had this amazing
Len Testa: restaurant literally again, they think same thing as the ABC facility. They knew what they were doing with one restaurant But they were sharing, you know a kitchen, right? And so they’ll what are we gonna do with this one with the soundstage and they had literally just made What is it a comedy with Bette Midler and Lily Tomlin I want to say
Jim Hill: risky business. I forget the name of it, but it’s actually set at the Plaza Hotel in New York. is it the premise for the Golden Ticket thing? Remember that the Bette Midler Golden Ticket thing that was here at the studio? Yeah, but this was secondary to that. This was literally a film that was done, I think, for Touchstone. But they literally had built the Plaza Hotel in the lobby of the Plaza Hotel in New York. so Michael Eisers is like, we spent all this money, what are we going to do with it?
Len Testa: And it’s like they shipped it to Florida and you actually could eat in the set. And then what got kind of interesting is that park had only been open a year or two and somebody noticed, well, wait a minute. We got Beauty and the Beast and that’s got kind of ornate looking things in it. they changed the, Sunstage restaurant went from a Bette Midler movie to Beauty and the Beast and then Aladdin. you know, it was a charming facility for a while. They don’t need a restaurant back there?
Len Testa: Well, not so much as they need something for children, know, preschoolers. Got it. So another attraction for preschoolers. That’s right, because before Toy Story came out, they really didn’t have a whole lot for kids to do early in the morning. Well, more to the point, remember that when this park opened in 89, literally, Roger Rabbit had come out and Mermaid was six months away from coming out.
Jim Hill: the animation revival hadn’t happened yet. So Disney was really struggling because obviously the characters, classic characters, live at the Magic Kingdom. And it’s like, so what is the studio? And in fact, there’s still this internal struggle as to how does the studio, you know, what’s the symbiotic relationship between the studio? Supposedly, the way it works is characters go to the studio to be introduced. And then after a year or a couple of years, they then go to live at the Magic Kingdom.
Len Testa: That, sadly, that rule has fallen apart. know, for example, Tangled, you know, literally opened… That’s usually popular too. That’s over at where they used to do Story Time for Bellamy. And if the rumors are true, we may see Beast of the long-running Beast Show here replaced by a Tangled musical. Really? Yeah.
Jim Hill: Well, we’re on Sunset Boulevard right now. To our left is Starring World’s Cafe. We’re right in front of the Sweet Spells Villains store and across the street from the Legends of Hollywood shop. I really like this area of the studios. This is my favorite part of the studios. We talked about this on the WWCA podcast a couple of weeks ago. And one of the things that we really like about it is they’ve integrated both the building facades
Len Testa: The music and sort of like the long view terminus there, the weenie of the tower, all works really, well. The interesting thing is, one of the most popular attractions in the park, the Rock and Roller Coaster, you can’t see from where we’re standing here. That’s because it wouldn’t fit in. They really did a great job there. Anything going on with the starting rules, by the way?
Len Testa: You know, it’s, again, this part of the park works, all right? And in fact, that’s right now, you know, when they talk about this park, it’s more about how do we drive people down toward lights, action. But again, that’s only something you have to worry about nine months out of the year, because you have the Osborne Lights driving people back there. mean, again, it’s more a case of what do we need? And again,
Jim Hill: when you talk about Walt Disney World, you are in direct competition with three other parks. It’s like, you know, cause Disney Hollywood Studios isn’t really wanting for anything right now. I mean, we’re here on a, you know, on Monday in February and it’s, it’s. This part of the park actually on Sunset Boulevard is fairly crowded right now. The streets are, they’re not packed, but they’re definitely, people walking around in it. There’s, there’s already people in line, I guess for, is it lunchtime? Well, you know, you can never.
Len Testa: Exactly, and they’ve got hot dogs and stuff and this actually part of the park works I think fairly well. They’ve got a good mix here of food. They’ve you they’ve got four or five different places you can get food. They’ve got retail on the right hand side food on the left. It’s well organized. It’s I think seating is a little bit lacking on this side of the park, but but other than that, it’s not bad at all. You mentioned Beauty and the Beast the stage shows coming up right here on the on the right. Yep, I mean and
Jim Hill: But again, I guess the thing of it is, being, having seen all the plans for what was supposed to go in here, it is nice, but the stuff that was going to go in would have moved this from nice to amazing. This would have been, this would have moved up from being the park behind Epcot to the park that you had to go to right after the kingdom.
Len Testa: Wow. mean, for example, where we are right here, we’re at the Sunset Rents Market. OK, this is where the Toontown Transit attraction was supposed to be. And the idea was that you come to this. It’s literally it’s it’s.
Len Testa: What we would just passed here, for example, would have been Mickeyland, which was a recreation of the studio on Hyperion. mean, just the little slow slung bungalows, and you would have gone in and been actually able to see, you know, the classic Disney characters, the pie-eyed versions. But next to this was going to be Toontown Transit, where you would have gotten on Gus the Bus. But this was the next generation of a simulator.
Jim Hill: in that what they were going to do was couple. Not only the, were going to have screens.
Len Testa: not only in front of you, to the side of you. So as you move through Toontown, you literally move through Toontown. you know, actually what was supposed to happen is you got in your load area and you would have, your driver wasn’t there and Roger takes the wheel and Roger takes you right up to the top of Mount Toonmore. And then, know, have the pinnacle overlooking this wonderful view of,
Jim Hill: You know, the Toontown and Roger, but who’s at the top of Mount Toonmore, but, you know, Jessica and baby Herman, you know, Jessica’s there, baby Herman in the carriage and Roger turns around and says, I got to out and talk to my honey. just so he pulls the brake and steps out and you literally see him in front of the bus and he’s talking with Jessica and that sort of thing. And while you’re in the car, you see the brakes slip and now now begin to roll back down the hill. And now Roger sees you and races after you. And it’s now Roger trying to get back into the bus that’s rolling backwards down at the Toontown.
Len Testa: And what was cool about it is Disney had found this version of Vacuform plastic. They had the solution that they loved to do. And in fact,
Len Testa: when they mocked it up. they do is you would, Roger at one point would be thrown in the air over the bus and you just hear him go up and then you hear him plummet back down and then the ceiling would cave in in Roger’s exact shape. Classic. You know, and just, and you’d see him move and then, you know, it bubble back, you know, just bump back into shape and Roger would drop back into the driver’s seat and, okay, we’re going to take you back. But no, it, it, there was so much cool stuff there, but back here, was, for example,
Jim Hill: I mean just Tower of Terror alone. mean, you know, this actually started out for example as the attraction that Disney wanted to do with Mel Brooks. know, one version of it was literally, you know, this was gonna be Frankenstein’s Castle that you were going to, you know, the Frankenstein. know, and you know, then there was, you know, that was Hotel Mel.
Len Testa: And in fact, to hear Craig McNair Wilson talk about it, what was going to be interesting, there was one iteration of the plan for this where literally the hotel, this was the sealed off, this whole building was the sealed off wing of the hotel. The rest of the hotel, which guests could have actually stayed in, extended all the way to the entrance. Wow. So from the back part of the park by Hollywood Tower Hotel over to the entrance. So behind where Beauty and the Beast is. In fact, in one version of that plan, just like Euro Disney.
Jim Hill: You know, you would have walked under the Hollywood, know, Disney’s Hollywood Hotel to get into the park. there’s so many amazing ideas. In fact, Craig’s the guy who basically created Streetmasphere for the parks. And what he wanted to do with this, it was sort of the next generation of what they do in the great movie ride where you have live actors interacting with AA figures.
Len Testa: Craig thought, wouldn’t it be interesting if you literally, for example, if you went into the lobby of the hotel and there were three figures, there was one live person and two audio animatronic figures. But the gimmick of the ride was that the audio animatronic figures were on a turntable at any one time during the day.
Len Testa: they could swap out the a figure was sitting in the lobby for a lot so you’d go in and you would literally never know who the live human ones and so but they were going to that throughout the whole right now i’m too many people absolutely absolutely or i mean now headed over toward rock and roll this was actually going to be where they did the horror thing cuz you remember when this park opened up disney didn’t disney do horror universal did horror right and so they were like well how
Jim Hill: we do this? And they finally came up with a concept for the show called The Creature’s Choice and the idea was it was literally an award show for monsters. Nice. And you, the interesting thing is it was going to be built like the Carousel of Progress and that you would rotate through a bunch of show scenes supposedly as part of this award show.
Len Testa: and the finale of the show is they give a lifetime achievement award to Godzilla and literally just his foot came through the ceiling. That’s classic. But that was here along with a great show about, they wanted to explore all process of filmmaking and one of the shows they created was a ghost writer.
Jim Hill: Ghost writer or writer? Ghost writer. And the gimmick of the show is it was going to be like you were sitting, you know the Pepper’s ghost effect for the mansion? You’re sitting in a theater where this entire show is a Pepper’s ghost effect. Really? You know, the idea is you’re, in fact, borrowing a page from Hitchcock, you’re, you
Len Testa: rear window. You’re in a apartment complex looking at a guy who’s working in, you know, like a greenhouse apartment thing and he’s working on, you know, a film noir and, you know, but as he’s sitting at his manual typewriter, as he dreams up characters, they appear in the room. So it’s like, you know, the mall comes out of the typewriter and the thug and they get the little weasel-y character and all that. as he would little and…
Len Testa: as he dealt with the meat you know all of these people that he’d written them on and they’d literally fall into the trash but yeah that was here as well and but of course the problem with that is you had to figure out a way to increase capacity they were they were going to put two theaters side by side to try to bump you know a number of people through an hour for this 15 minute show but in the end what people wanted were thrills and
Jim Hill: This what we have now. Rock and Roller Coaster. Are there any plans to, I mean, Aerosmith seems like they’re, every time you count them out, it seems like Aerosmith comes back. They’re gonna be around for a while. They’re happy with this, though the one thing you will see change over here relatively soon is the Rock and Roller Coaster lounge area, which again is part of the next gen. they’re gonna do that. So remember that, yeah, so a couple years ago, last year, they tested a sort of a group waiting area instead of waiting in the line.
Len Testa: You waited in an area and you were called by group to board the ride. They’re going to do something similar? What they’re going to do is literally bump out here into where the old ESPN thing was located. And it’s literally, you’re a rock star. So it’s like, hey, your ride isn’t ready yet. Come wait in the green room. And you come back and there’s going to be, for example, a place where…
Jim Hill: They’ve got a sponsorship deal lined up with Rockstar. I mean, literally, you can play the game on a widescreen. There will be a refreshment stand. There’ll be a DJ playing music. mean, just while you wait for your turn to get a, your ride’s here, sir, okay. But they’re gonna try to create the whole fawning green room experience. that’s great. But they’re gonna have to do it on massive scale, 500 people at a time. No, no, that’s it exactly. It’s a giant space.
Len Testa: But it’s gonna be literally, I mean, you’re friendly with the scene one concept, right? Yeah, It’s the intro scene, the queue, the pre-show, or the queue for any of the attractions. So just think of this as, you know, what they’re doing with Dumbo, the flying circus, the game interaction area. Think of that for adults, all right? You know, oh, we have a place for you to sit down. Oh, we can get you a beverage. Oh, you know, get up and play a game. You know, but yeah, that goes in right to the side, and you’ll now load in.
Len Testa: You you’ll sort of come in behind to the pre-show and that movie. so what’s the idea behind that? Is just to distract people from the fact that it’s a 40-minute wait?
Jim Hill: Pretty much. And you know, the weird thing of it is, is that, You know, I mean, that is always the sore point of a Walt Disney World vacation. That people are upset about waiting the lines. And if you can distract them from that moment, if you can entertain them to distraction…
Jim Hill: Right. You know, that they don’t obsess about the fact that I waited 40 minutes to get on it. It’s like, yeah, that’s the place where you and I played Rockstar together. Not the place where we spent 40 minutes of our lives and never get back. That’s it exactly. No, it’s about to get really interesting here. don’t know if, you know, I mean, everyone seems obsessed on the notion of, how’s Disney gonna battle Harry Potter? And, you know, I think when you get right down to it, when you compare Universal’s attendance, what is it, seven, eight million a year?
Len Testa: Okay, and the what the 22 million? You know it’s more about look we have market dominance We just have to you know find a way to make having them here that much more pleasant so That’s a that’s a that’s good point So there’s there’s not a lot that they they have to do in and really if they if they sunk you know three billion dollars four billion dollars whatever into the
Jim Hill: into a park like the studios. What could they realistically expect for return? It’s not like they’re gonna go from 9 million people a year at the studios to 17 million a year. No, that’s exactly Well, the park infrastructure doesn’t support it, number one. They have to build that out. Number two, that’s an unrealistic expectation. mean, they have to essentially double the size of the park. And even then, think of all the people who already been here who still have that preconceived idea of what the studios is like. So even if you tell them, we spent $5 billion, we 16 new attractions, they’re like…
Len Testa: And might get back to it, we might not. And again, that’s ultimately what people need to remember is that this…
Len Testa: a theme park is a people eating machine and this is a line of business for Disney and it’s just sort of like show me my return on investment. You mean just what just happened with, well, for example, we’re headed back toward, you know, American Idol right now. And what happened with star tours? You spend all this money, you know, you, you put this brand new version of the ride in with all these amazing details and you don’t see an attendance jump. Yeah, it was really, really tight. was like maybe a couple percent for a short period of time. Essentially all the, all the local
Jim Hill: everyone within a couple hundred mile radius who who hadn’t seen it before wanted to go see it they did that was it yeah and and so you know was that money well spent and and you know again arguing about idle
Len Testa: You know, all that money, cutting that licensing deal. And now, it’s like, please, please, please come sing. That’s right, yeah. We haven’t talked about American Idol. Are there any plans to do anything with that? I get the sense from American Idol that it’s one of those things where, like with Phineas and Ferb, they’re sort of striking while the iron is hot. This was one where they maybe struck after the iron had started cooling for a couple of years. Absolutely, absolutely. And fact, that’s now…
Jim Hill: You we’re back to the same problem. We have this amazing structure right in the middle of the park. Yeah, it’s very nice. And, what do you do with it? I mean, it just, you you, you know, people literally walk into this park and, you know, reach the hat and it’s like, it’s right there on the left. And it’s like, you need to figure out what to put in this because, you know, people want to believe that they’re getting value out of their trip. So,
Len Testa: So I know that the show is the last show of the day for American Idol is usually pretty crowded, but I’m looking at it now, there’s a show going on in half an hour, I literally don’t see anyone in, not half an hour, sorry, there’s a going on in 15 minutes, I don’t see anyone out in front for American Idol. And that is the problem, just, know, on paper this worked. The ratings for the show aren’t that good. And that’s the other thing, when you live and die, know, something like that, it’s a dairy product, and right now,
Len Testa: I don’t want to that it’s its death spiral. It’s just punk star range. not the single thing that everybody had to watch all the time. And that was the thing. Disney built this thing. It wasn’t even in the white hot moment of the show. was just sort of like… The year or two after, yeah. Is there any parting thoughts for Disney’s Hollywood Studios? Other than to be honest in a weird sort of way, this park…
Jim Hill: If you know your Disney history, this park only exists because they didn’t know… When they opened Epcot, people were desperate for Disney characters.
Len Testa: And, you know, just, was on these things, it was a Disney character-free zone, they had to figure out how to do it. Let’s build another park. You and what I… We still rented the construction equipment. Well, the other thing is they had literally spaced out between the land and imagination pavilion, they were going to put in an entertainment pavilion. And this was where you were going to get to, in fact, there was a rudimentary form of the great movie ride, where you get to see celebrities. But on the other side was literally a how we do Disney animated films, and it was going to be
Jim Hill: kind of a classic dark ride only you rode through watching them make the rescuers only but all the grips were like the grips with the seven dwarfs and you know that that you know you know donald was up in the the flies working the wires holding you know the the boat up for you know bernard and bianca to ride in and it was only eisner walking through the door and seeing that pavilion and more to the point knowing that universal was getting ready to do it studio it’s like i i know what we can do with that
Len Testa: And here we are today. Jim, thanks for doing this episode with us. We’ll be back with another episode soon. Always great fun.
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Len Testa and Jim Hill walk through Universal’s Islands of Adventure, tracing how Port of Entry, Marvel Super Hero Island, Toon Lagoon, Jurassic Park, Seuss Landing, and the Wizarding World of Harry Potter reveal Universal’s evolving approach to theme park storytelling. Along the way, they discuss the park’s Disney influences, the complicated Marvel rights situation, the rise of Harry Potter as Universal’s game-changer, and why Forbidden Journey set a new bar for immersive attractions.
Islands of Adventure and the Wizarding World’s Big Swing Transcript
Len Testa: Welcome to another edition of the unofficial guide Disney Dish podcast with Jim Hill. Today we’re at Islands of Adventure theme park with Jim Hill. We’ve just entered the park and welcome to all of you. Jim, how’s it going today at IOA?
Jim Hill: it’s going great because again, we’re in… Honestly, Universal’s, or to me, yes, the most ambitious Universal park. And to be honest, in a lot of ways it’s the most ambitious park here in Orlando. Really? I mean, think about it. We were just over in Universal Studios, which again, is a film studio. And as a direct result, because they were going to shoot movies there, there’s a lot of counterintuitive language. We’re here, right from the get-go. Island’s Adventure was supposed to be a theme park.
Jim Hill: You we are now in the retail quarter. This is their Main Street USA. But at the same time, it is one of the most densely packed storytelling Main Street USAs you’ll ever see. you know, as you wander around here, for example, we have the jail over here. And if you’re paying attention, you can actually see, you know, the ropes where prisoners snuck out and you can hear the audio loop. But no, just, this is a port of entry, literally is what it It says it is. It is, you know, you’re surrounded by ride vehicles whether, for example, looking at a bicycle cart here, we passed a rocket, know, all these adventurers came here to have…
Len Testa: So the ride vehicles represent how the people who populate the park supposedly got here.
Jim Hill: That’s it, exactly.
Len Testa: The entrance of the park is interesting. On the right hand side you’ve got some like, you’ve got different kinds of buildings for… from every different period of time in every different area. looks like you’ve got steampunk stuff there on the right, you’ve got some really funny stuff over there on the left, so it’s all pretty interesting.
Jim Hill: No, again, and all deliberate, all with the idea of giving you the sense of the world that lies just beyond port of entry here. But again, what I find fascinating is that as you walk into this park, you actually pass the great light. the lighthouse, one of the seven wonders of the world. The lighthouse at Alexandria. Yeah, but here’s the funny thing that if you, again, if you remember the initial concept for Tokyo Disney Seas for Tokyo, that was the icon for that park. you know, again, in the fine tradition of, you know, great artists steal, you know, the folks at Universal, it’s like, okay, that’s a cool idea. All right, we’re doing that too.
Len Testa: That isn’t the right vehicle. Yeah, that’s what I mean. But there’s a sleigh. This is a really well done sort of entryway. It feels kind of like a Middle Eastern bizarre meets, you know, sort of Mediterranean village.
Jim Hill: But at the same time, they look at again, universal correct system six. Remember how we were talking yesterday about you walk in past the camera shop, you know, they look across the way on the right side. There’s your bakery.
Len Testa: yes, yes.
Jim Hill: So you want your breakfast and you’re right-handed, you know, that’s where your vision is driven to. So yeah, and on the right-hand side coming back you’ve got your merchandise. So in many ways it does reflect sort of the design sensibility of a regular Disney theme park. And again, you know, now borrowing from two Disney theme parks, we walk out and see the lagoon from Epcot. But what’s across the way? The castle, you know, Jurassic Park. You know, the, you know, the visitor center for Jurassic Park. And… Of course, that’s how it was originally designed, but now, what do you see when you come in? You know, it’s kind of obscured by a tree, but there’s Hogwarts Castle. And if we stand here for a moment, we will watch fully two-thirds of the guests make an immediate hard right as they head off to Harry Potter.
Len Testa: Yeah, we mentioned this on the walkover from Universal Studios, but I would say fully out of every hundred guests that were coming out of the parking garage. 80 of them were going here to Iowa and only 20 of them were going to the studios. The park already, Iowa already feels much more crowded than Universal Studios did.
Jim Hill: And the irony again is previously anybody entering this park before Harry Potter was here made the left because of course the first thing you see is the Hulk coaster.
Len Testa: The Hulk coaster, right, the big green thing with loops and stuff. It’s a great coaster, have you been on it?
Jim Hill: yeah, yeah. Sadly had to ride the fat seat, but yes, I’ve ridden it.
Len Testa: It’s very smooth.
Jim Hill: No, absolutely. It’s amazingly smooth. Though, one of my favorite… Good morning? One of the more interesting aspects of the attraction, and this had to be put in, they began soft opening of this in March of 1999, a friend of Keir was working the bridge, and they had just fired up the whole coaster for this time. He’s standing there, and he suddenly hears smash, and there’s a camera lying in the street next to him. And they realized, oh my god, because in that loop that they go into, know, everything flies out of the car. So now they literally rigged up that net there to capture things and at the end of the day they go and collect them. you know, when your belongings fly out on a hulk, there isn’t actually a chance you can recover them. So.
Len Testa: You know what they should have in the park? What? A pawn shop. You can collect all the stuff. You need a Nikon. What kind of Nikon do you need?
Jim Hill: Well, this is true. This is true.
Len Testa: Hi, so we’re walking under the Hulk coaster. starting a, it looks like a clockwise tour of the park and we’re coming up on some sort of futuristic space looking cafe.
Jim Hill: Well again, here we are with the, we’re in Marvel Island and if I’m not mistaken that’s, what is it, the Fantastic Four Cafe?
Len Testa: Yeah, I’ll go with that.
Jim Hill: Well, and This is where life gets a little complicated because, you know, again, this is a Marvel land at a Universal theme park and Marvel now is of course owned by Disney. And so the question is always, sorry about that. The question has always been when is, you know, when is Disney gonna get the theme park rights to the Marvel characters? At least here in Florida, I don’t know, does the term hell freeze over mean anything? Part of the problem is that the licensing deal, the master licensing deals that Universal enjoys with Marvel are so specific.
Jim Hill: mean, literally, for example, we’re walking by all these buildings now with giant versions of the characters on the marquees. There’s a separate deal for each of these characters on the marquees, let alone the walk-around characters in the park, let alone the attractions. And all of them are very specific to the effect of, know, Universal has the rights for 250 miles. know, nobody else can have an attraction featuring these characters. Within 250 miles. Then, beyond that, it gets a little interesting because there is some additional language.
Jim Hill: And trust me, Disney’s attorneys have gone over and over and over this and they’ve tried to negotiate some deals with Universal. In fact, that’s the interesting thing. Disney has cut deals with Universal before. I think about it. They got Oswald the lucky rabbit back after 80 years. So there is a precedent. It can be done. And they’re trying to do it through back channels quietly, but the first attempt… failed so badly universally actually put money into redoing Spider-Man. In fact, that’s not only opening in a month or two here, as sort of a F-U to Disney. It’s like, you know, not only are we gonna hang on to these characters, we’re putting money back into the attractions.
Len Testa: this is Marvel Island. We’re walking past a comic store, a diner. I wonder if there’s a Chris Eliopoulos in the Marvel stuff. We’re walking past a diner. past an ice cream store. It’s pretty well themed in sort of a, I can definitely see this as a Marvel city.
Jim Hill: No, again, it’s wonderfully done for what it is. But part of the problem for islands is they literally had to go out and find properties. In fact, we’re now just reaching the outermost edges of Marvel’s superhero island. We’re about to go to Toon Lagoon and this is where the stitching really shows.
Jim Hill: I had a friend who actually worked on the construction of this thing. It literally was in the trailer, it was in the mud. You know, as they’re building this thing and literally, you know, your boss would come in and go, we got Prince Valiant! It’s like really, know, what, for pocket chains that was on top of the dresser? You walk through here and it’s all of these comic book characters from the 60s and the 70s and this is what they could get.
Len Testa: If you listen to the other podcast… We’ve got Judge Parker ride! There you go. Mary Wirth’s. Mary Mary Wirth’s. You they just did what they could. They do have the puppy ride, or the Pup Eye ride. They do have the Dudley Doo ride. You mentioned that we’ve got the Broomhilda stand here. These are characters that you’ve seen before, but they’re sort of like the stuff that Hanna Barbera would show at 3am on Cartoon Network.
Jim Hill: absolutely. And again, you… You walk through here and it’s like looking, you know, we’re getting into the depth of the land that is Marquis after Marquis after Marquis, I Brenda Starr. know, and again, Blondie.
Len Testa: Yeah. Although, there’s Bullwinkle and Rocky. I’ll give them that.
Jim Hill: Well, but that, again, another interesting story of how personal and frankly kind of mean the battle between Disney and Universal was. If you remember- back in the early 80s of the airbugs, Disney actually had the rights, VHS rights, to the Rocky and Bollicle show and they had released eight or nine of them and Disney was actually assuming that because they had this deal that they would begin developing theme park attractions because we have this wonderful working relationship with J Ward’s daughter Ramona and so they were planning on actually, and again this is the eighties before disney had you know it’s it’s an initial revival with all that and beauty of the beast so they were scrambling for characters that did for example to put into the disney hollywood studios and universal some canny lawyer universalism wait they got the video rights but not the theme park roads and they swooped in and and literally snagged them off one disney and disney was so pissed that they actually they had plans for twenty thirty vhs is in the bowl equal dvd series And they shut it down. just, after eight, it’s like, that’s it, we’re done. We don’t do anything else with you.
Len Testa: Eight.
Jim Hill: Yep. And so again, this is a very cutthroat personal business. But again, because they got the J Ward rights, that’s where they got Dudley Do-Right from. it’s not, don’t get me wrong. It’s not that this is necessarily, you know, I mean, it’s got some charm, but it’s an awfully cluttered design.
Len Testa: And a lot of the time you’re looking at it like, do I know that character? mean, well, I mean, I’m looking at Pogo. I know Pogo. Yeah, Pogo, we got the Phantom, Buddy, sorry, Betty Boop, Kathy, Heathcliff. but you know, they gave it a shot. And to be fair, they’re iconic characters. mean, here we’ve got, you know, Little Nemo, know, Winsor McCay. Yeah. You know, there is some good stuff here. Oh, God, there is Family Circus. There you go. I was joking, it’s true.
Jim Hill: And what’s killer though is leading away from the Family Circus is they literally have the dot. You can chase Billy!
Len Testa: So on the Sunday strips of Family Circus, sometimes they’ll do a dotted strip where they show what Billy did. know, for like take out the trash and they’ll show him going through the entire neighborhood. Take out the trash, they do one of those.
Jim Hill: Don’t get me wrong, they’re clever ideas. You have your water fountain. with every cartoon strip dog known to man. I mean, there are some fun ideas here, but it’s kind of cluttered, it’s kind of busy.
Len Testa: There are definitely a of water features here. feels… cooler because the water features. that’s… Ah, the Dagwood sandwich. This is actually, and they will serve it to you here. You actually can get a Dagwood sandwich.
Jim Hill: Really?
Len Testa: What’s in it?
Jim Hill: Everything. I think actually furniture.
Len Testa: Furniture. Do they have it on the list? I’d love to see what the ingredients are in the Dagwood sandwich. Let’s take a look. We’re going to go in and see if there’s to see if there’s an ingredient. Oh, there is. It’s $8.99. All right. Our famous Dagwood sandwich. fresh baked onion and poppy seed bread piled high with baked ham, turkey, roast beef, American Swiss cheese, topped with lettuce, tomatoes, mayonnaise, and mustard. Wow. That’s a sandwich. That’s pretty impressive.
Jim Hill: I’m sorry, if it doesn’t come with a complimentary Metamucil, I’m not having it. There’s not enough fiber in that one. There we go.
Len Testa: comes with a complimentary wicker charity.
Jim Hill: Anyway, this is, you talked about the water features. One of the reasons there’s so much water in this land, this, again, this is the park where you get wet. have, know, Popeye and Bluto’s, Bill Trav, Ratfuck. And then just beyond that is Jurassic Park. And you don’t just get wet on these things. It’s literally, you can go swimming and be drier.
Len Testa: way around getting completely
Jim Hill: No, absolutely. mean, don’t get me wrong, it’s a quality ride, it’s done well, it’s certainly, you you compare this to Cali River Rapids where it’s just, know, that somebody can swatch you with a wet sponge. But they have a wonderful, do you want to go take a look? Okay. A wonderful kid play area and again, that coupled with a just flat out terrific view across the water at Hogwarts. So. But again, sad thing is that anybody who rides Popeye isn’t necessarily re-riding Popeye.
Len Testa: No, no, Once you’ve done it, you’re that’s right. Okay, I am stoked for the week, thank you. So the ride vehicles for Popeye look a lot like the ride vehicles for Collier River Rapids. It’s a similar type of ride, but I don’t think on the same scale.
Jim Hill: But at the same time, mean look, we’re as busy as the park is today. It’s a five minute wait.
Len Testa: Yeah, and it’s warm outside.
Jim Hill: Yeah. So what does that tell you? You know? But at the same time, we have the Wimpy’s burgers over here and that’s again staying, you know, consistent to give the characters of the storyline, you know, coupled with our, our Popeye themed water plate or. know, climbing area play area here.
Len Testa: Sweet Pea’s climbing area?
Jim Hill: Yeah, they do some nice stuff. And again, there’s some great design back here.
Len Testa: We’re walking past a group of people who are just completely drenched. And they’re taking their clothes off and wringing them out. And frankly, some of them shouldn’t be, Charles.
Jim Hill: But anyway. Let’s go and find something nicer to look at, all right?
Len Testa: I think I’m blind, though, Jim. I think I’m blind. and uh… we’re walking up towards the olive which is uh… it’s like a boat play area for
Jim Hill: no and again great climbing great playing but again you know think about it you if you’ve been out to disneyland and been to you know the miss daisy compared that to you know uh… this three story structure
Len Testa: We’re walking over the bridge that is the Popeye attraction and we’re walking past a tugboat scene that is just dumping water all over one half of the rafts in the Popeye ride. I’m not talking about like a sprit. It looks like the waterfall on Jungle Cruise. It’s that much water. That’s incredible and we’re walking up now so we’re kind of elevated right now. We’re kind of up about one story. Have a great view of the Hulk, a great view of the other parts of the park. Jim, what’s that land straight across?
Jim Hill: Well again, we’re looking at Marvel. In fact, we’re looking at the footings for the Hulk coaster. And then if we come over here, we’ve got Sus’s Landing.
Len Testa: then Mithos. Mithos, is that a restaurant?
Jim Hill: Yes, but that’s, and again, this is where things get interesting. This is supposedly the best review of theme park restaurant in all of Orlando. And I’ve always had a little trouble with that story because it’s like, it’s never open. How could it be the best reviewed when anytime I ever go by it, it’s closed. You know, I mean, again, you know, just the fine people get in there.
Len Testa: Rape. It’s like Victoria and Albert’s. That’s why it must be one of them. Ah, got it. OK. But for burgers.
Jim Hill: So, but anyway, now you see just sort of the tale of Hogwarts.
Len Testa: Okay, so we’re looking, uh, Mithos, to the left of Mithos is Hogwarts Village.
Jim Hill: And Plymouth Rock!
Len Testa: Oh my Oh wow, I thought it was farther north. It’s shaped like a Plymouth. That’s funny. Okay. Um… No. The cruiser might be little quieter. We’re about 200 yards away from the Hulk Coaster, which tells you how loud that thing is. If you can hear it in the background.
Jim Hill: But as we stand here, you can see kind of one of the problems with this part. So much of it. mean, look over at Soos’ landing. All right, the vibrant, vibrant colors. it just, means when you commit to Soos’ world, you commit to Soos’ world. In fact, we were watching their little train thing work. That was an opening day attraction that never made it off the table. That was supposed to be Gerald Bucky McBean’s amazing train machine. Never quite worked the way it was supposed to. So this is what they were finally able to jury-rig it into working.
Len Testa: It’s an elevated, slow-moving train ride through Susa’s land, looks like. You’re right. In terms of visual contrast, going from right to We’ve got the green of the Hulk coaster. We’ve got the Mediterranean sort of look of the end of the the entryway. We’ve got Seuss’s landing, which is all sort of Technicolor odd-shaped structures. You’ve got a roller coaster in the back. That’s RupRide. You got Mythos, which is it looks like it’s carved out of rock. And then you’ve got Hogwarts. You’ve really got, you know, you know, we’re missing here is the Chrysler building because that would be that would be every every type of architecture you could possibly do.
Jim Hill: Well again, the irony here is if they had actually gone ahead with the Two Universal Project, right there was where Gotham City was going to be built and Marvel was going to be Metropolis. And in fact, what was kind of interesting is the lagoon, how they were going to close the park out every night, was they were going to do this massive lagoon show. In fact, the path we’re on was where guests were going to go to stand to see it, literally, idea was that elements from all four islands would come out and form a brand new island that will only come out at night and you know for example sailing out of Gotham City would be an iceberg that had been created by Mr. Freeze you know and now it would have been an amazing nighttime show but never quite again they did make that deal though interestingly enough one of the only reasons that Universal got Harry Potter was because of Seuss.
Jim Hill: Well, interesting thing that, you know, Disney had the first shot at JK Rowling and they actually, designed two attractions. There was a defense against the Dark Heart ride and then there was going to be, if you can believe it, a care and feeding of magical creatures petting zoo.
Len Testa: Wow.
Jim Hill: But it was only these two attractions. was only going to be, you know, and Disney was going back and forth about whether it was going to be in Fantasyland at the Magic Kingdom where they’re going to build it at the studio. And they basically… They totally mishandled J.K. Rowling. Long story short, this is a woman who was very hands-on. In a sort of way, Disney should have known better because it was like, it took them 15 years to convince P.L. Travers to give Walt Disney himself the rights to Mary Poppins. And Travers was a pushover compared to J.K. Rowling.
Jim Hill: But they basically… told her, honey, know, we’re Disney, we’re the very best at what we do, when we want your input, we’ll ask for it. And the negotiations just crashed and burned. Meanwhile, Universal gets wind of, you know, that the fact that she’s on the market again. And they’re so smart about it. They contact her and literally it’s like, look, Miss Rowling, understand you. know, theme park rides are available and we’d be so honored if you’d be part of our, you know, and we’d love to work with you. In fact, we’d consult you on every phase of the park.
Jim Hill: And so they fly around here and they literally walk her over to Seuss’s landing and say, look, you know, the Dr. Seuss stories. Look at how carefully we sculpt the characters. Look how lovingly we maintain these buildings. You know, we, we followed exactly what, Geisel did. And better yet, here’s Audrey Geisel, Dr. Seuss’s widow. Give her a call. Tell her, ask her how it was to work with Universal. And Audrey, Audrey was a huge pain in the ass. Audrey, when they were opening this park back in 99, she’s walking around going, that’s the wrong color, it. And they painted it.
Jim Hill: And that was the thing that said, look, I was really, really demanding. I put these guys through hell, and they did it. They did exactly what I want. I have no complaint at all about Universal. if you’re thinking of bringing Harry there I wholly you know a big thumbs up go with those guys and that’s what happened she decided to sign because of Suzy’s landing so that’s a great story yeah so anyway speaking of go Potter and walking for another three hours we’ll get there
Len Testa: I haven’t been to this park in years so it’s a completely lost as well right we’re walking back towards Jurassic Park is that it
Jim Hill: well we’re sort of screwed in the water here trying to figure out if we can actually get back out to Dudley Duroyd here.
Len Testa: We may have to swim for it, Jim.
Jim Hill: Well that’s another little, you know, of fascinating story of universal history because Dudley was supposed to be the attraction that opened the spring after the park opened. It was deliberately held in reserve.
Len Testa: Okay. for something else to do?
Jim Hill: And… They’re four months out from opening and they’re not, you know, we’re gonna need it. Is that all right? I think we go down here and go right. All right. problem is, we’re not ready. So…
Len Testa: that’s a dead end. And apparently we’re meeting up with other people who are stuck in the dead end. Do think we have to go back up that way? Okay. Alright, I’m following you at this point.
Jim Hill: Anyway!
Len Testa: And they were never heard from again. Let this podcast be a recording of our last thoughts on Earth. Alright, anyway, back to… I didn’t look like it went anywhere. Let me check, hold on, there’s an area over here. let me look, me look, let me look, let me look. Nope, that’s nothing, dead end. Does anybody have any food?
Jim Hill: said, I’d miss.
Len Testa: Jim’s playing Battleship. that’d be funny. Anyway. That’s what we need, a theme park based on board games.
Jim Hill: Do not give them any ideas. Remember, Battleship the movie is actually opening this year.
Len Testa: Is it really?
Jim Hill: yes. Yes.
Len Testa: Seriously. What? There’s a plot?
Jim Hill: Aliens. And fact, what’s fascinating is that when the aliens actually attack the battleship, they fire what look like big white plastic pegs into the side of the ship.
Len Testa: that’s beautiful. if you’re a literalist when playing the game, you’ll be completely happy. There you go.
Jim Hill: Anyway, back to Dudley again. So they have four months and they get it open. But it’s like, look, we don’t we have show scenes that aren’t done. like, I don’t care.
Len Testa: And they’re still not done.
Jim Hill: They’re still not done. Still not done. 15 years later. Yeah, was one of these things where it’s like, we’re going to have to get back to that at some time. And I never have. Wow. Now, you’ve ridden Dudley at some point, right?
Len Testa: Oh, yeah. I got soaked on it.
Jim Hill: So, but you remember the Pirates of the Caribbean gag at the end?
Len Testa: No, I don’t remember it.
Jim Hill: Well, the last scene before you get to the offload area is Snidely Whiplash, you know, in jail, literally. aping the scene from Pirates of the Caribbean.
Len Testa: a dog?
Jim Hill: Only in this case it’s a beaver holding the set of pears.
Len Testa: That’s great. I think we can go up and to the right to to Jurassic Park.
Jim Hill: I Anyway, pushing on. So, I don’t know, I remember from… Angela my friend who actually worked this project just the poor thing being out here in this mudfield This was literally the last land to get done because they didn’t know from day to day Who they’d land the rights for? Which which characters that we’ve got and it’s just sort of like okay, and let’s hurry and get that facade built so
Len Testa: Wow, all right, so we’re walking over we’re leaving the The land of cartoons and we’re heading over towards Jurassic park.
Jim Hill: And again, this was when this place opened. This was their castle. This was what was supposed to drive you ever deeper into this park. some of this stuff works back here and some of it does not. I mean, for example, we’re working at Pterodon Flyers right now. And a wonderful attraction if you weigh three pounds.
Len Testa: Yeah, it’s got height requirements that prevent lots and lots and lots of people from riding it,
Jim Hill: Absolutely, and coupled with the fact that it’s got virtually zero capacity. Charming idea, you know, when it came time to actually build the thing, it just never quite came together the way it was supposed to.
Len Testa: Anyway, here we come up on Ripsaw Falls, which has the wonderful exploding building effect. Here we go. so we’re passing by Ripsaw Falls. on our left. It’s got a sort of a splash mountainy type feel to it. There’s tons and tons of water just pouring out of the rapids, actually, Ripsaw Falls, I guess. And as each ride vehicle goes down, water can shoot out and spray everywhere. It’s just a ton of water. It’s a great effect, though. very, visually, it’s very interesting.
Jim Hill: Absolutely, absolutely. Again, it just would have been interesting if it had been built as designed and more to the point finished. But I’m funny that way. I complete it still.
Len Testa: We’re coming up on the entry to Jurassic Park. It’s got the big doors from the movie. Yeah, the Pterodon flyers look like it’s a relatively straightforward attraction, hanging sort of coaster for kids.
Jim Hill: So that said, one of the nicest things about the success of Harry Potter was that because they were suddenly dealing with that many more people in the park, they actually brought back their Triceratops encounter attraction here. You ever done that?
Len Testa: No.
Jim Hill: It’s… It’s this incredibly sophisticated… You know, again… Basically, it’s the guys in Canada who did the robotic space arm for the shuttle. And what they did is they built an audio animatronic triceratops that you literally go into the barn. And there’s a trainer there who’s, you hi, you have a four and five minute encounter with an animal that doesn’t exist. It’s really, really clever. But they actually shut it down because… Well, again, circling back to our Tomorrowland story, the entrance path was so obscure. that people didn’t know what to do.
Len Testa: We’re now walking through the Jurassic Parkland. So one of the things I like about the entrance here, Jim, is just like the Animal Kingdom, they’ve themed the walkway. So it’s got plant imprints on it, like fossils and stuff. And the plants themselves on either side are representative of early time, so ferns, simpler plants, and things like that.
Jim Hill: No, absolutely. Though the flip side of this is this comes at a cost, that if you’re in a wheelchair or you’re in a DA vehicle, it makes the pavement that much rougher. you know, so it’s always a balancing act when you’re talking with ops. Never mind the fact that these are harder to maintain, because you know, not only have to paint the pavement, but you have to paint in a little shadow to sell the idea that, that’s a fraud, or that’s a footprint, you know, nice.
Jim Hill: Speaking of nice though, the Camp Jurassic here, the kiddie play area, I think again among the best in Orlando. The only thing, as an adult, if you take your child in there, you can lose them for days. I remember coming here with EJ and Jonathan White and just two small boys who, I think we were here for two hours and then eventually it’s like look, Let another family adopt you. We’ve waited long enough. We can’t find you. That’s it.
Len Testa: Wow. So that was a boat that just came out of the Jurassic Park ride. That is a tremendous amount of water.
Jim Hill: Absolutely. Absolutely. But that’s the interesting thing is people here like to do the water triathlon. They will do this, then they’ll go over and do Dudley, and then they’ll build Dread, and then they’ll dribble throughout the rest of the park.
Len Testa: Wow. It’s good way of universal to irrigate the rest of the park. moisture wicking from the guests.
Jim Hill: Yeah, because of course, know, in Florida they have that, they need more humidity.
Len Testa: Yeah, that’s it. This is a place that just, you know, it’s not damp enough. It needs to be, it’s so arid normally that we need more moisture. We’re walking past one of those fans that… blow the missing fans. That’s a little bit of noise. So I think Camp Jurassic one entrance so at least you you have a half a chance of actually getting your children back. You can play zone. There we go. we go. So the Jurassic Park land has a restaurant, has a gift shop of course, and it’s got two or three attractions if you include the camp right?
Jim Hill: Absolutely. But again remember the Triceratops thing and actually there’s an expansion pad that they have yet to use back here.
Len Testa: Really?
Jim Hill: Behind the outfitters? Yep. And this is actually for a Jurassic Park Jeep attraction that they have, they literally, they’ve had it designed now for 15 years. They’re ready to go. But it takes the thing from the movie that everybody saw, riding in the ride vehicle and something goes horribly wrong. Right. But, you know, who knows? Maybe someday, I know that there is talk at Universal about doing a fourth Jurassic Park film, fact, maybe rebooting the series. And perhaps as part of that, they’ll finally take that idea out of, know, out of hock, so to speak.
Len Testa: We’re walking now towards the, through the back end of Jurassic Park. We’re coming up on, I guess there’s place to get temporary tattoos, pizza. You know, the interesting thing though, still, I mean, we’re, the view leaving the Jurassic Park isn’t terrible. Hogwarts castle looming in the distance but this pizza place, the theme fits in with the land. It’s really not bad. They’ve got a show building that’s, I guess the Hogwarts show building which is pretty big but overall they’ve done pretty well with the… with the sight lines.
Jim Hill: No, and again, the only problem is that, in fact, this is why we’re seeing, you know, when Hogwarts bumps out, it’s going to go down the hill toward Sinbad, let alone what they’re doing over at Universal Studios Florida. just, this is as far as they can go in this direction. This is as far as Hogwarts can go without taking out the Jurassic Park stuff. And, you know, the sad part of it is that they were… They were hoping that they’d actually be able to do here the dining experience. They give people a meal in the Great Hall and they’re still circling around on that idea.
Len Testa: Would they have to expand out this way?
Jim Hill: Well, that’s the problem. You’d really want to take out, I mean, don’t know what sort of support buildings are behind here, but you’ve got restrooms, you’ve got a pizza place, you’ve got room to do it. Well, the problem is that as they want to do the Great Hall, first of all, know, when are you going to pay $60, $70, $80 for for that sort of character dining, is what we’re talking about. They’re gonna wanna at least think that they’re going into Hogwarts Castle, so you have to build it in this area, and you have to figure out how to load people in.
Jim Hill: More to the point, though, it’s gotta be built. The Great Hall itself has to be built on the second floor, because the kitchens have to be below. There’s an effect they’ve got planned for the show that’s absolutely killer.
Len Testa: That, what is it?
Jim Hill: Well, basically, again, if you know from the Harry Potter films, starts with the food magically appearing. So people who are dining at the Great Hall are going to want to see the food magically appear. and they’ve figured out how to do it. And it’s actually a really clever idea that that. What they’ll do is that you’ll sit at long common tables and there’ll be what appears to be an empty silver platter in front of you. And then the wait staff will walk in with the top of a tureen, which they show you without showing you that it’s empty. There is nothing in it. It’s light.
Jim Hill: They’re sort of spinning. And they put it down on the table and on a five count they lift it and it’s filled with food. It’s steaming hot chicken and beef. And everyone’s like, wow, how did you do that? Well, how they do that is that again, kitchen blow and they put the food on a hydra. like ram. The platter in front of you literally is like a drawer. It slides out of place, food comes up, and the food is there. The couple of tests they’ve done, it’s really good with chicken, it’s great with beef, not so much with the mashed potatoes.
Len Testa: Well that’s exactly, you lift up the top of the turian and you scoop out the mashed potatoes.
Jim Hill: But they’ll figure it out. that’s what they wanted, because again, the survey work, that was literally one of the top three that people who came to Harry Potter they love what they have here but they want to ride the Gingras Coaster they want to ride Hogwarts and they want to eat the Great Hall and so it’s like two of those they figured out and now it’s just finding space for the third.
Len Testa: That’s good segue so we’re about to enter Harry Potter land here. We’re still going sorry sorry sorry no this is the visitor center here. I totally edit this out so it doesn’t make us make me sound like I don’t know what I’m talking about and by totally edit out I mean let’s keep it in because that’s what happened. this again I guess is closed for the season now but this is where the Triceratops attraction is located that I guess now it’s open on a seasonal basis which is a shame it’s great fun to see the gate through there. see the queue.
Jim Hill: So, by the way again this is your castle this is what’s supposed to drive you deep into the park but you know if you do hear a complaint about islands it’s that The walkways are very, very, very twisty.
Len Testa: It is,
Jim Hill: But again, you want to give that sense of more space than there actually is here. Because that’s the other problem with this park is that given how massive so many of these attractions are, you need giant show buildings. mean, if you’re out driving on Sand Lake Road, you can see the size. of the Jurassic Park Riveride building. It’s huge. It’s like the tiny version of the vehicle assembly building at NASA.
Len Testa: I think they have tons of room for expansion. We’re walking past the dinosaur in the Discovery Center. It doesn’t look like that populated to me.
Jim Hill: Here’s the problem. this is this to me universal owns Jurassic Park They don’t have to pay and it well, okay. All right, have to pay Michael Crichton’s estate. Okay and Random House Okay, but everything else they own Whereas with Harry Potter everything is in negotiation, you know, you got to go back to JK. In fact, you know You take for example that this One the reasons they haven’t officially announced what they’re doing over in USF is that they still haven’t got her to completely sign on board with it. So it’s like, you’re going to agree to do this? Yeah, in principle. It’s like, well, could you sign a contract? In principle. In theory, I could sign a contract.
Len Testa: All right, we’re leaving Jurassic Park. We’re about to go over the bridge to, I guess this is Harry Potter Land?
Jim Hill: All right, this is a good place to stop. We’ll pick up again in a minute.
Len Testa: Alright Jim, we’re getting ready to walk into the Dr. Seuss Land? What’s the…
Jim Hill: Seuss Landing. And again, just for those of you who are purists, yes, we cheated. Alright, we were in Jurassic Park, we are now, you know, at Seuss Landing.
Len Testa: Magically in Seuss Landing.
Jim Hill: We, and through the magic of editing, we may splice all this together to appear seamless.
Len Testa: there we go. Alright. Okay. this is…
Jim Hill: Again, the… This is the land where Universal really, really, really tried to show, you know, this is their equivalent of Fantasyland and what they could do. And the fact that it’s such a great physical representation of Geisel’s books doesn’t necessarily mean that it was all successful. I for example, we’re standing across from the long-shuttered Green Eggs and Ham Shop, which… You know, again, a great idea on paper, because they did it authentically. They actually sold green eggs. They sold green eggs and ham.
Len Testa: Really?
Jim Hill: It was eggs with green food coloring. And people would get in line and this is wonderful. This is cool. And I’m not eating this. so they were trash cans full of this just right off to the side where people would take one bite and then throw it away. Because, you know, green eggs and ham.
Len Testa: And the ham was green too?
Jim Hill: No, the ham was actually the right color, but green eggs. anyway, we have, cool. Did you, I’m sorry, you just missed it. Universal has feral cats. No, seriously, one just ran out of, in fact ironic, if I ran the zoo, ran out of, you know. The feral cat ran out of the, if I ran the zoo exhibit. In if you’ll notice, we have a Universal employee with a net trying to catch the feral cat. so with really big gloves to like, Like the kind of gloves that if you were blowing glass, then you need to stick your hands in an oven. Those are the kind of gloves the man has on.
Len Testa: He went that-a-way. He went that-a-way. Jimmy’s directioning in the way the cat went. Okay.
Jim Hill: Anyone? No! It’s kind of ironic they’re trying to catch it because Disney, least in California, actually cultivates its feral cats because, of course, they keep the rodent population down. You know, which is kind of ironic. Again, Mickey Mouse, but we’ll get into that later.
Len Testa: We’re walking past the Carousel.
Jim Hill: Which, again, you Disney collectibles fan, a lot of the authentic Seuss animals for the Carousel were actually sculpted by Maggie Parr, the Imagineer who You know, worked for years on sadly projects that didn’t get made for Disney like Beastly Kingdom for Disney’s animal kingdom. But you know, she now mostly makes her living painting wonderful Disney paintings that recreate settings from the parks and put the characters in them. But one of her earlier gigs after she left Disney was doing this carousel.
Len Testa: Nice. We’re walking past the Cat in the Hat right now. What does that look like,
Jim Hill: Well, to be honest, it’s a dark ride that is very well done but could have benefited from a little less spinning. fact, that’s one of the complaints that parents make a lot about this ride is that their kids would love it except for the fact that… Every so often, the vehicles really whip around and sort of freak out the kids.
Len Testa: Ah, that’s a shame. And then we’re passing one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish, which is essentially Dumbo. It’s a spinner ride.
Jim Hill: Dumbo when you get spat. Well, it’s actually closer to the magic carpet to Aladdin because you do get spat on in this thing.
Len Testa: That’s right. There’s water feature where the fish spit on you during the ride.
Jim Hill: again, they did such a nice job when it comes to sculpting. you know the Seuss characters and just taking the world of the books and making it three-dimensional and And but the interesting thing is the back door component of this is that because they had this working relationship now with Audrey Geisel that then allowed them to make movies like The Grinch which we won’t talk about and just opening this week in The Lorax.
Len Testa: and we’re walking by the other Trafila trees right now and the Lorax was behind us. The Trafila trees here are a little bit faded.
Jim Hill: Yeah well that and and again this is part of the problem with committing to something like this that because the colors and the stylization in the Seuss books are so distinct. know, a painting crew basically starts at one end of this thing, finishes, and then goes right back. Because, you know, this is central Florida, colors get burned out immediately.
Len Testa: You can tell actually where they’re at right now. So they’re not quite at the Lorax yet, but they’ve definitely completed the Dr. Seuss All the Books You Can Read store because those colors are really, really vibrant.
Jim Hill: Absolutely, and as we get deeper in here, mean, just the Gerter McFuzz, you know, I mean, this part of it pops, but…
Len Testa: It’s hysterical, the difference, because I that’s a great green right
Jim Hill: Yeah, yeah. But again, come back in three months and it’ll be faded. You know, just these sorts of colors just can’t, you know, just can’t deal with the harsh Florida sun, central Florida sun, so… But again, to be fair, they have committed to doing it right. And now, again, everybody knows about Hidden Mickeys. What I love about Seuss’ landing is we actually have a hidden Dr. Seuss.
Len Testa: We have a hidden Dr. Seuss in Seuss’ Okay, over here.
Jim Hill: Alright, we’re over by the police car. Mulberry Street. If you see the police car, there’s a band full of three dignitaries. Look at the one on the far left. That’s Cedar Rock Castle. could also be Bob Salinger. I’m not entirely sure. I’m going with Geisel. Okay, but again, they do a nice, nice job.
Len Testa: That’s great. We’re passing the Mulberry Street store, the Gizmo’s Gadgets and Goodies Galore.
Jim Hill: And it’s nice to see they got the train attraction finally going through. This was an opening day thing that never quite got out of the box. It took them four and five years to finally get something up and running.
Len Testa: Wow. It’s an elevated train ride around Seuss’s Landing. I like the name of the store. Goose Juice.
Jim Hill: I think around the corner we actually have Moose Juice.
Len Testa: Goose Juice and Moose Juice?
Jim Hill: Come on. Gotta read your Dr. Seuss.
Len Testa: And now we’re walking over the bridge. we’re at the end of the Seuss Landing. We’re at the bridge to go to Harry Potter Land.
Jim Hill: Shall we go, Injun? Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun will probably go under the knife in the next four or five years. The only thing that’s supposedly hands off is mythos and even then there’s talk of you know would this be that much more popular as a Harry Potter themed restaurant. mean face it you can’t really go wrong at Universal these days when it comes if you put Harry Potter something you know people get on line for it yeah and you know and it’s right now they have the demand exceeds supply and they’re just looking for ways to bump that out.
Jim Hill: So, I take for example here, we’re walking up on the edge of Poseidon’s fury. One of the concepts that has been kicked around is using this theater, this facility for a chamber of secrets show. Second Harry Potter book, you know, the notion is that you would go into this space and, you know, to be deep under, you know, the hills of Hogwarts and, you know, come face to face with a basilisk. So, but again, it’s a shame because this has, you look at, I love the statue that fell in and it’s over. I mean, here you have Poseidon’s head, his foot, his arm. mean, there’s so much great detail, great work here that, but again, you have to, this is the second iteration of the show because the first version, people were like, the show’s called Poseidon’s Fury. Where is Poseidon? You know.
Len Testa: They had to literally change it out to create a new version that heavily featured Poseidon. So this is another, another of the Seven Wonders of the World, right? So out front was the lighthouse at Alexandria. Another one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World was a Poseidon sitting astride the harbor at, and then it was destroyed in an earthquake.
Jim Hill: that’s interesting, that’s interesting theme. there any other wonders in the? I think, you see the problem is that was the design idea that they were married to initially, but continued to fall away. And you know, it’s a shame. But again, I just, love these giant chunks of the statue. just.
Len Testa: It’s really well done. You see the feet. standing in stride, the entrance to the theater. That really is thinking, actually. It’s pretty clever.
Jim Hill: Again, there’s some wonderful storytelling in this part. And sadly, the story is coming to an end relatively soon. Make way for more Potter. Like some background music back here, it’s nice. And again, just fun little retail shops, but of course, who, I can’t know. No one’s buying Poseidon merchandise these days.
Len Testa: There there you go. It’s like, you’re walking by somebody reading a Harry Potter book. It’s just, all right, okay. Just some notes. They’re starting before they ride the ride, just to make sure.
Jim Hill: I want to make sure I get There’s a quiz at the end right here. So anyway, if all… If what they’re saying is true, that what will happen in phase three of Pawdakas, phase two of course is the Diagon Alley project for Universal Studios Florida, you’re now going to bump out the borders of Hogsmeade Village and this is going to be basically the hillside that the students walk down to go to the Hogwarts at Cress and there will be pretty much approximately where Sinbad is right now. by a train station that will run back and forth between the two parks. in fact, the disaster attraction over there will be redressed as white, there’s a white chapel, no, King’s Cross Station. And that’s where, back and forth, you’ll ride from one Harry Potter experience to the other.
Len Testa: So you’ll get on the train, you’ll go to one park, you’ll get off the train, you’ll be in another park, then you get back on the train to come back to your original park?
Jim Hill: Yes, that’s it exactly. but again, they’re hoping that you do in fact wander out away from Harry Potter at some point. that you don’t just get off the train and get back on? And here’s the sad part, we’re gonna lose fun little… I mean… Now mind you, the fountain didn’t used to play music like this, but this is the interactive fountain where the… You know, there’s a playoff stage watching through a camera who’s busy assaulting children via water.
Len Testa: So we’re out in front of the eighth voyage of Sinbad and there’s a water fountain that’s normally just sort of a relatively calm fountain, you know, that the water stays inside the area that it’s supposed to. But then apparently it occasionally erupts. and sprays water 20 feet across. The one disconcerting thing that Jim mentioned is that the background music that was playing while the fountain was going off was Cypress Hills, Insane in the Membrane. Not exactly true to form for. I’ve seen this in bad movie. Maybe there was in the stop motion one that I didn’t see entirely all the way through. Moving on, moving on. Now that song is going be in our heads for the rest of the day.
Jim Hill: But again, just, to be honest, you look around this, this isn’t going to be an area that necessarily is going to be missed. I we’re in a gaming section. It’s not designed, it’s the area.
Len Testa: No, and as much money as the games make, they probably make more with Potter.
Jim Hill: absolutely, absolutely. But, you know, as we walk up to the gates of Hogsmeade Village, just picture this going 300 feet further back there.
Len Testa: Frankly, mean, looking at it, I’m surprised they haven’t done it already.
Jim Hill: Well, because you have to close it to do it. And it’s like, you’re gonna turn off the money machine? yeah, yeah. Again, one of the things they hope to address while doing this is the issue with the Dragon Challenge Coaster. When this was the Ice Dragon, the Fire Dragon, back when it was lost content, this was one of the most popular attractions in the entire park. They would have epic lines. And now, it does less than a third or the fourth of the business. But again, it comes back to a theme that we’ve talked about before. mean, come on over, take a look.
Len Testa: Hi, we’re over in Harry Potterland. We’ve just passed the Hogwarts Express train. We’re passing by Hogsmeade Station. We’ve got Honeydukes on our left. We’ve got these amazing Butterbeer Cruts. It’s really like walking into Grand Central Station, you know, on New Year’s Eve. There’s just people everywhere, all around. It’s the middle of the day. It’s really, really warm. Excuse me, go ahead. Kids running underfoot, it’s a circle.
Jim Hill: As busy as it is, notice how few people are actually going to Dragon Challenge. It’s because it’s this little modest recessed door. There’s a five minute wait right now for Dragon Challenge. So we’re in the busiest land, in the busiest of the Universal theme parks, and there’s a Harry Potter themed attraction for which there’s a five minute wait. And the amazing thing is if you go up the hill here, there’s wonderful props. And in fact, that’s the other thing to understand about the The Wizarding World of Harry Potter. It’s a very specific time. This is set in the fourth book, the fourth film. You’re literally in the middle of the Triwizard Tournament. you are in the world of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire on the day of the Dragon Challenge, before things start to go south. So it’s still a relatively happy time in the Potter universe. And that’s literally where they’ve frozen the characters.
Jim Hill: And in fact you go up the hill here and hero all of the banner the handmade banners by the Hogwarts students for their their heroes and If I get as smart as they’ve been with all of the propping here is you actually go in a top of the hill There is a goblet of fire when you go into the next room There are these wonderful amazing fifty thousand dollars worth of tapestries that Universal had made in Hungary that are gonna depict the great wizards of the past watching the tournament However, they are in the room with the candles dangling down. And in order to sell the candle effect, they had to turn down the light. So literally, if you want to see some amazing tapestry, bring your camera with a flash, all right? And when you’re in that space, wait till other guests pass through and take a couple of shots. So when you go home, look at the wonderful tapestries, because you can’t see them here.
Len Testa: Wow. Just walking to see them here. Sure, sure, So walking past one of the Butterbeer carts, and I’m going to count the number of people in line. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. There’s like 50 people in line for Butterbeer.
Jim Hill: In a lot of ways it’s the biggest attraction here and certainly it’s the most profitable. mean, when you think about, know, it’s not exactly in Coca-Cola country as in Coca-Cola is what? eight ounces of water and you know three pennies worth of syrup but it’s a relatively short list of ingredients relatively cheap to make and they’re making money hand over fist.
Len Testa: that’s great. Anyway to get- What’s this structure right here that we’re Sort of like a-
Jim Hill: This is if you know your Harry Potter stories that- Okay all messages travel by owl the owl post and so what you’re seeing here is literally you know the owl read that this is where all and in fact what I love about their attention to detail is we have plastic owls in here that’s heads that swivel but again assuming that they’re real owls there’s owl poop under each of the…
Len Testa: there is, there is.
Jim Hill: you know just but again the idea was to make this as lived in you know I mean literally the idea is you walked into the books you walked into the movies and the only problem with that is that and this this really only becomes an issue during the summer months but because This area is almost all black and gray stone. It doesn’t just hold the heat. It’s an easy bake oven. again, there’s a reason that people are looking for beverages because they’re dying here. But no, has, there is honestly so much, we could do an entire podcast just about this land. There is so much attention to detail. Whether it’s the snowy roofs of Hogsmeade Village. or the individual windows of each of the stores that, for example, where you buy your quidditch equipment, there’s a snitch flying around in the window. I mean, just so much, the only problem right now is this is so hugely popular, it’s almost impossible to move in here. just, you know.
Len Testa: I wouldn’t want to bring a stroller in here.
Jim Hill: Well, and that’s the thing. In fact, at certain times of the year, it’s a… one way traffic only. You come in one side and they direct you out the other. You know, they cut off access through Jurassic Park area.
Len Testa: What’s that straight ahead, Jim?
Jim Hill: That is the three broomsticks along with the hogshead tavern. fact, let us stuck in there and get you a beverage.
Len Testa: A beverage, you say? All right, we’ll walk over there and see what we can do about a beverage. I’m intrigued. You guys hear the background music? So this is a bar, shop, drink shop? place where we file taxes. We’re going into the Hog’s Head. Apparently some sort of refreshment stand. We’ll see how long the line is for whatever it is that we’re doing. it’s a bar, it’s a bar.
Jim Hill: it is. Now, I was actually here for the grand opening of The Wizarding World. again, through, again, didn’t do this deliberately. was, the first went off of the press bus. They had a red carpet set up and I ended up, but it was covered with, was raining, it was covered with plastic, and some Universal employee shooed me off of it. And I finally wound up. in the day out, see? My prom day found work. So, I was the only reporter let in to the Wizarding World for 90 minutes. And I had the place basically to myself.
Jim Hill: And so I ended up going from store store interviewing people and got some amazing information about, for example, the typical guest when they got into the Harry Potter stores during the soft opening, they were spending $175 a person. on robes and on average. they were talking about there had been some families, one family that came over from Britain that spent $1,500. They had to have one of everything. anyway, so I end up here in the Hogshead Tavern frantically taking notes. And I’m really not paying attention to what’s going on around me.
Jim Hill: And they had decided to bring in 30 to 50 Universal employees and dress them as wizards. for the press event. And this became the facility that they held them in. So I look up and I’m literally I am now in the movie, all right? Because they’re all sitting here waiting. And it’s like, oh jeez, know, it’s literally in my brain, was like, one of these things is not liked yet. So I gotta get out of here. I’m trying to discreetly get out of the room and I must have stepped on the back of 30 different cloaks because it was like, ow, ow, ow, ow.
Jim Hill: So I end up back in the three broomsticks portion, which is now empty. And I’m sitting there and there’s this English family, you know, just sort of sitting alone and I grab the other table and sit down. and eventually become aware of the conversation and it’s like, what do you think, Her Majesty is coming out this evening? It’s like, well, she has to. She’s been working with them all week. And it’s like, I eventually realized it’s J.K. Rowling’s family that had flown over for the event. And they proceed to talk about how the poor woman had been out in the park after hours with literally, I mean, her attention to detail here was almost insane. She was walking around talking about correcting the moss on the side of the building here.
Jim Hill: I have different species in mind. It would have been here longer, so it needs to be a little larger here, and this is damp, and it just, it was fascinating, and again, it’s just one these things where you’re sitting, listening, and trying not to, I’m really not a creepy eavesdropper, you know, I happen to be in the area hearing this conversation. But, but again, I just, I love this facility, but.
Len Testa: But the other thing is, think about it, you just talked about 50 people being in line. In line for a beverage. Okay, we just walked into this place, we are now what, fifth in line? Yeah, so a quick tip is if you actually want the Butterbeer, it’s faster to go into the Hogshead Tavern? Yes. Hogsmeat Hogs
Jim Hill: It’s also the only for the audio and the metatronic hogshead behind the bar that periodically comes to life.
Len Testa: Yeah, it’s kind of interesting, it’s a pretty large hogshead. So what are you gonna do? You’re gonna do… You gonna do Frozen or you gonna do…
Jim Hill: How about one of each? That way you can…
Len Testa: Are you buying the butter beer?
Jim Hill: I’ll buy the butter
Len Testa: Jim is buying the butter beer, folks. excited here. This line is a… Actually this is fairly detailed. Is there upstairs seating? that what those stairs are for? that a prop?
Jim Hill: No, no, no. In fact, we’ll step into the deeper part of the bar here, but with this…
Len Testa: Oh, it goes way back.
Jim Hill: In fact, what’s fascinating is if you actually go in into the… Again, this is a geeky little touch. But go into the three broomsticks and look up. This is Florida. They need air conditioning. They need duct work. You can’t see it. Alright, they’ve literally put a false ceiling in of a tavern, you know, in the Harry Potter world. And then all the duck work is above that, hidden away. mean…
Len Testa: It’s genius.
Jim Hill: Yeah, absolutely. So…
Len Testa: So we’re doing one of these.
Jim Hill: One frozen and one regular. Fabulous.
Len Testa: Alright folks, we’re gonna pause this for second until we get our Butterbeer and then we’ll be back. Alright, so we’re taking a break inside the Hogshead Brewery. We’ve got Jim’s buying the drinks. Thank you Jim. Ha, interesting. Alright, so we’ve got two drinks here. We’ve got the frozen version and then we’ve got the liquid version. So on the non-frozen version, it looks like this bubbling marshmallows.
Jim Hill: The head is added at the end. It’s literally the finishing touch. It’s a separate station where they added almost like the whipped cream on a cake.
Len Testa: It looks like a… It’s hard to describe. It looks like it’s wet bubbles. All right, here we go. It’s like gum. Cream soda, butterscotch, and it’s really sweet. Sweeter even. Laurel’s making the yucky face. It’s been a while. I’m going to try the frozen version now. Here, give it a shot. It’s almost like a mocha. It’s a different flavor for me.
Jim Hill: Maybe they need to chain the hog head. I could get used to the frozen versions. The cold really helps it a lot. The downside of this is, as Nancy pointed out at lunch today, it’s a fast lane to a brain freeze.
Len Testa: yeah, I can already feel it. It’s really good, thank you Jim.
Jim Hill: But it’s almost worth it alone, rather than to pay cash to do this at a credit card because they literally hand you a quill.
Len Testa: Really?
Jim Hill: So it’s like, well, you have to sign your card. It’s in.
Len Testa: So, no, I’m Here’s your inkwell. There you go.
Jim Hill: No, there’s, again, I think the storytelling particularly here in the Three Gorms, Six Hogs, is so well done. What’s fascinating though is that at the opening, I got to chat with Stuart Craig and he said the problem was that we had done three movies that featured scenes in, you know, The Hog’s Head and The Three Broomsticks and each time we had changed the look of it, you know, coupled with what it said in the book and what the layout of this place was like. And so it was literally trying to take all of these elements and give it a unified view while at the same time making it a restaurant that worked at a theme park. that they can plug with like, you know, fire regulation.
Jim Hill: But at same time, just across the way here with the three broomsticks, they, that’s authentic English fare. I mean, you know, you can get scotch eggs, can get bangers and mash, fish and chips. And what’s particularly fun about it is that their menu board is done in the style of the wanted posters from the movies. So, you know, where you saw serious black screaming that, It’s that large woodblock kind of print with images that fade out. But again, the details, the dedication to bringing the world of the books and the movies to life here is just kind of stunning. now, you know, that’s where kind of the gauntlet has been thrown down for Disney.
Jim Hill: It’s going to be interesting, you know, between Cars Land in California coupled with Fantasyland Forest as to whether or not… Disney can reclaim the high ground when it comes to themed entertainment. It’s going to be difficult for them to reach this level of detail in Venezuela because they probably started this…
Len Testa: I don’t know if they aspire to this level of detail. The room that we’re in is, what, three horse stories tall? Yep. And it’s detailed from the ground all the way up to the very top of the ceiling. I mean, just look across the way at the dining room. You have all of these mismatched chairs.
Jim Hill: Yep. Because again, this is a tavern. This is a place where people just come to eat, and it’s got to service a lot of people. But again, they’ve done… Such a nice job, and to Disney’s credit, it’s gonna be interesting to see what happens when Be Our Guest opens. Because that is gonna be… That’s gonna be a joint comparison here. That’s exactly it. You can dine in the West Wing, you can dine in the Grand Ballroom, or you can literally dine in the Be Our Guest dining room, with the giant tables and all that. That’s gonna be fascinating.
Jim Hill: The one thing I was hearing about that though is they have been having trouble with the Living Character Initiative figures. that they wanted to do that. If you remember the early concept paintings for it, you would actually see sort of tea trays being pushed through and on each of these there was an audio animatronic lumiere, there was a Mrs. Potts and Chip, and it’s like, it’s one thing to do Remy the Rat when he’s six inches tall and really doesn’t have to say anything. Me, me, me, me, me, me, he’s done. It’s quite another thing to figure out who’s backstage doing the Jerry Vorbach impression. Hello! You know, so.
Jim Hill: But I don’t know, again, the only complaint you can make about Harry Potter is that literally the Wizarding World is too popular. It’s not big enough. It’s not big enough. And that’s kind of a good problem to have. But yeah, universal internally fought about this, about how big is too big. when it came down to it, it’s like, well, obviously we have to do the ride right. In fact, that’s…
Len Testa: That’s where we’re headed next, you think? Or… We are. Just one last thing on this. One of the things that’s amazing to me about the architecture of the Tamarisk, obviously it’s a modern restaurant. It meets fire code. It meets all the health and safety measures. But you don’t see like a giant air conditioning turret at the top, you?
Jim Hill: No, absolutely. And in fact, that’s really one of the wonders of… This complex you can look up and it looks like an authentic 16th century tavern But the ductwork the electrical, you know, again, this is air-conditioned right here. It’s all here You just can’t see it, you know, they’ve hidden it all very very well
Len Testa: This tremendous trying to I’ve been in temperature in England and this is pretty darn close. I mean I Would imagine you’re not going to get the same response from asking for butter beer though.
Jim Hill: No, I will tell you this much while I was at the bar There’s this interesting conversation, again, this lovely suburban woman comes up and she’s negotiating that she and her family want six butter beers and a real beer and they want an empty glass. Because they want to pour Amstel Light into a glass with butter beer and see what it tastes like. I’ve never seen, you the Universal employee was so trying to talk her out of it so hard it’s like, you don’t understand, this will all separate. All right, the alcohol will mix with this. and you’ll have glop. And in fact, I don’t know what it will form, but I wouldn’t drink it.
Len Testa: There’s a small chance of potential explosion.
Jim Hill: But she was determined. She was walking off with her empty cup in her amp still and all of her children with their butterbeer. So watch the news tonight, folks. There could be a really ugly story.
Len Testa: I would love to know how they make this. We’re going have to do a… All right, should we go ride the ride?
Jim Hill: Sure.
Len Testa: See you in a minute. Sorry, so you’ve just ridden Forbidden Journey with Harry Potter. It’s a remarkable attraction. It’s got an incredible amount of detail in the queue. The ride itself is fantastic. You’re on a Kuka arm that goes along a track, and you’re swinging from scene to scene. I thought it was gonna be all CGI, Jim, but a lot of it is actual sets that they’ve established. But the interesting thing is, going through the queue, you realize that there’s so much detail in there, it’s gonna be really interesting to see how Disney responds to that.
Jim Hill: No, in fact, again, Cars Land Radiator Springs Racer is supposedly Disney’s response. And don’t get me wrong, they’re wonderful characters, but again, it’s two films versus seven books and eight movies. you know, and in fact, that’s the thing I think that was so smart about this is getting the actual cast to film this before, you know, they got to work on, you know, the last of the half-bored prints. it’s just, you know, between the audio and the visuals, and it’s just… and mixing back and forth from the film to the practical sets. it’s the new gold standard for a themed attraction.
Len Testa: It really is the, you you’re walking through the queue and it’s not just static rooms you’re going through. There are things to interact with in virtually every room. There’s films or there’s paintings that come alive. There’s lighting, there’s rich detail everywhere.
Jim Hill: And I say this as a fat guy and remember that the big worry and the big problem with this attraction initially was that they had, know, that people of a certain heft couldn’t ride. And a few months in, they very bright thing, they took the two outside seats and made them fat friendly. And now, again, it’s just a question of, yes, you get on board the ride and it’s like, again, suck it in, fatty, but basically anybody can ride.
Len Testa: It’s really good. Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see what Disney does in response to this. I can’t imagine how Beast’s Castle or anything in the New Fantasyland is going to… be as detailed as this but I’m really excited to see it. It’s been really good. Any last thoughts, Jim, before we close this episode?
Jim Hill: I expecto patronus.
Len Testa: Okay, there we go. All right. Well, thank you guys for listening to the to the podcast We’ll be back with with more really really soon Don’t forget to leave comments on iTunes and rate the show, please if you like it We’ll do more if you don’t like it. We’ll probably do even more than that. Talk to you guys later. Thanks.
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