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A Talk with a Disney Legend: Joyce Carlson — Part I

Jim Korkis begins a three part interview with Disney veteran Joyce Carlson. In today’s installment, Joyce talks about her early days at the Mouse Factory.



I recently had lunch with Pat Williams who is Senior Vice President of the Orlando Magic basketball team and the author of almost two dozen inspirational books including HOW TO BE LIKE MIKE (Jordan) published by the same folks who publish the CHICKEN SOUP books. Currently he is working on a book to be published in 2004 entitled HOW TO BE LIKE WALT (Disney) and he has been gathering stories from dozens of folks from Ray Bradbury to Peter Ellenshaw to Betty Kimball to Sam McKim to Kaye Malins as well as Disney historians like Paul Anderson, J.B. Kaufman, Leonard Maltin, and Dave Smith. I got the opportunity to share with Pat some of the stories and concepts I use in my “Walt’s Leadership” presentation where I talk about the differences between a leader and a manager using stories of Walt and Roy as examples and then I identify ten of the key leadership skills that Walt used backed up with more story examples.

Fortunately, I had an opportunity to interview many of the folks who worked with Walt and Roy and they shared some great stories I use in the over seventy-five presentations I do at Walt Disney World. Unfortunately, too many of those folks have passed away and Pat has been in the position of interviewing the children or spouses of some of these people. Unfortunately, some of the folks who worked with Walt can’t remember some of those experiences clearly any more as age and medication has taken its toll. Unfortunately, some of those folks have been “burned” and misquoted too many times in the past by interviewers or are just too tired to trot out the old familiar stories again and have refused to be interviewed by Pat. Unfortunately, some of the same people keep getting interviewed over and over and people forget that tens of thousands of people worked at the Disney Company over the last eighty years and many of them have interesting stories and insights.

Most people realize that Imagineer John Hench is the Disney cast member with the most longevity with the Disney Company. After a stint at Republic Studios, John joined the Walt Disney Studios in May 1939 as a sketch artist in story development on FANTASIA. He still shows up for work each day and all of us are excited about the book he has just finished writing which will be appearing soon.

However, about five years after John came on board, a young lady by the name of Joyce Carlson joined the Walt Disney Studios in 1944 as a “traffic girl” which meant she delivered mail to the various departments among other responsibilities.

She soon transferred to the Ink and Paint department and spent sixteen years inking cels. In 1962, Joyce moved over to WED as a model maker for the 1964 World’s Fair pavilions where she worked closely with Mary Blair and Marc Davis.

“I really loved working with them,” Joyce told me in an interview where she revealed that Mary Blair often wore colored contact lenses to match her outfits and that you had to get to Mary before she took her lunch because of Mary’s alcohol consumption during that time period, “I used to admire Mary from afar when I was in Ink and Paint and I would see her and Walt walking around the Studios. And Marc was wonderful. He really knew what he was doing.”

Joyce was the natural choice to help bring IT’S A SMALL WORLD from the World’s Fair to Disneyland and she eventually was also the key person involved in bringing the attraction to the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World and later Tokyo Disneyland.

For several years, Joyce has been based in Florida where she still comes in to work each week at Walt Disney Imagineering and is the resident expert on IT’S A SMALL WORLD besides working a little bit on everything including the carousel horses at the Magic Kingdom. Joyce is the one who developed new figures for IT’S A SMALL WORLD including children representing Israel and Korea.

“The people are still creative and talented and so great to work with. There’s a little of this and a little of that going on. That’s one of the reasons I enjoy what I do. As long as I can come in every day and help out, I’ll show up,” Joyce laughed.

In 2000, Joyce was made a Disney Legend. The following is an excerpt from one of the first interviews I did with Joyce in 1998. No publisher was interested in it nor my later interviews with Joyce where we focused more intently on her work with Mary Blair and IT’S A SMALL WORLD. John Canemaker will be using some of that interview material in his new book on Mary Blair. This interview gives a nice overview of Joyce’s career at Disney as well as some wonderful personal opinions and stories. For many people, despite her accomplishments and the many people she has mentored over the years, Joyce is unknown. Hopefully, this glimpse into her life will bring a little more recognition to a true Disney Legend who is still a feisty little ball of energy today.

Jim: I think probably we need to start with where you were born and some of the background before you came to Disney.

Joyce: Sure, Well I was born in Racine, Wisconsin and in 1938 my mother and father decided to leave Wisconsin to California. That was before the war, and we decided we wanted to move to maybe San Diego but when my mother saw those sailors down there she said ‘We’re not living here” so we moved back to Santa Monica and that’s where I lived since 1938.

Jim: Did you have any background training in art either in high school or collage?

Joyce: High school. I used to carve drawings and make things so it was a natural thing for me. Of course my family, too. There’s alot of talent on my mother’s side, so I must get a little of it from them. (laughs)

Jim: You joined the studio in 1944, what made you decide to come to Disney?

Joyce: A girl I went to high school with moved to Burbank and she worked for Disney and kept saying “Why don’t you come out to Disney?” I said “I’m not a cartoonist, I don’t want to work for Walt”. And my mother kept telling me to work for Disney, and my friend said to come on out, she worked in traffic, and I said “okay.”

Jim: So you got a job in traffic. Now, allot of people don’t understand what traffic is, what was traffic at the Disney studios in 1944?

Joyce: Well, we had traffic on every floor, four floors, and the animators would need pencils, brushes or coffee so we would run down and pick them up and take it to them in their room and that’s sort of traffic. You’d also deliver the mail, I gave it right to the animator, I never gave it to the secretary, right to the animator. So I didn’t last too long in traffic. (laughs)

Jim: How long were you in traffic?

Joyce: Oh, about 6 weeks. (laughs)

Jim: And from there you moved to ink and paint?

Joyce: Well, my boss Ben Mosley and his wife, Violet, said “Bring some of your work in. They’re hiring in ink and paint” and I thought “Ink and paint? What am I going to do over there?” So I went home and sketched about six drawings with pen and ink, y’know and so Ben took my work over to Grace Bailey. She was just taking Ink and Paint over, and she was my boss, and he took my work over and I guess they decided that maybe I’d be good for inking. So they kept saying “Your only 18?” and I said “No, I’m 21” they said “You look 18” and I said “Oh, I’ll bring my birth certificate tomorrow.” But uh, I was hired for ink and paint. They programmed me for two weeks practice, and after two weeks they put me on production and we were doing alot of the war insignias and the shorts for the army and training films. That was fun.

Jim: Some people often confuse ink and paint. Inking was often a separate craft than a painter.

Joyce: Oh yes, we had three quarters of inkers, upstairs and two or three quarters of painters and of course we had checkers, final checkers. The checkers were in the quarters where the inkers were. Each quarter in inking had about 20 girls. And then we had two checkers up front and then we had a supervisor and an assistant supervisor, that was in each quarter.

Jim: Now, didn’t you even have charts where they had examples of ink lines, because you had to match the lines?

Joyce: Well you’d call for work and they’d give you six drawings of whatever feature you’re on, like CINDERELLA. I always seem to get the main character and there’s about 12 colors on each drawing, each cel. And that’s what takes time, I had to watch the girl that was before me to ink the line, because there’s a fine line, a medium line, and a heavy line, so you had to follow her lines so it runs smoothly. Otherwise, it’d jump, and that’s what we did.

Jim: Now, did you use a quill pen or did you use a brush, or both?

Joyce: They had quill. I still got some of my old pen holders and pens, and they still have ink on them. (laughs)

Jim: I understand that the ink department was on the second floor, paint was on the bottom floor but there was a tunnel connecting the building to the animation building?

Joyce: Yeah, they had ditto down there and, uh, you could go over to the animation building. So when it was raining, it was kinda nice, you didn’t get all wet. Yeah, we had that underground.

Jim: Now, there was quite a separation between male and female, right? There was supposedly no fraternization, right? That could cause instant dismissal if the woman ended up in the men’s building?

Joyce: Oh, well, I don’t know about that. We’d get a talking from the boss “You’re not supposed to fraternize with the animators” but we’d go over and see what they were working on. But we’d have fun doing that. But, uh, we were known as the “nunnery.”

Jim: Why were you known as the “nunnery?”

Joyce: All women. Just women. We had one fella, Lloyd, who punched the cels. (chuckles) He was sort of feminine himself, so he fit in with the girls. But he was the only fella that was in the ink and paint. He was a nice fella, we enjoyed Lloyd. (chuckles some more)

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Jens Dahlmann of LongHorn Steakhouse has lots of great tips when it comes to grilling



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Sure, for some folks, the Fourth of July is all about fireworks. But for the 75% of all Americans who own a grill or a smoker, the Fourth is our Nation’s No. 1 holiday when it comes to grilling. Which is why 3 out of 4 of those folks will spend some time outside today working over a fire.

But here’s the thing: Though 14 million Americans can cook a steak with confidence because they actually grill something every week, the rest of us – because we use our grill or smoker so infrequently … Well, let’s just say that we have no chops when it comes to dealing with chops (pork, veal or otherwise).

So what’s a backyard chef supposed to in a situation like this when there’s so much at steak … er … stake? Turn to someone who really knows their way around a grill for advice. People like Jens Dahlmann, the Vice President and Corporate Executive Chef for Darden Restaurant’s LongHorn Steakhouse brand.

Given that Jens’ father & grandfather were chefs, this is a guy who literally grew up in a kitchen. In his teens & twenties, Dahlmann worked in hotels & restaurants all over Switzerland & Germany. Once he was classically trained in the culinary arts, Jens then  jumped ship. Well, started working on cruise ships, I mean.

Anyway … While working on Cunard’s Sea Goddess, Dahlmann met Sirio Maccioni, the founder of Le Cirque 2000. Sirio was so impressed with Jens’ skills in the kitchen that he offered him the opportunity to become sous-chef at this New York landmark. After four years of working in Manhattan, Dahlmann then headed south to become executive chef at Palm Beach’s prestigious Café L’Europe.

Jens Dahlmann back during his Disney World days

And once Jens began wowing foodies in Florida, it wasn’t all that long ’til the Mouse came a-calling. Mickey wanted Dahlmann to shake things up in the kitchen over at WDW’s Flying Fish Café. And he did such a good job with that Disney’s Boardwalk eatery the next thing Jens knew, he was then being asked to work his magic with the menu at the Contemporary Resort’s California Grill.

From there, Dahlmann had a relatively meteoric rise at the Mouse House. Once he became Epcot’s Food & Beverage general manager, it was only a matter of time before he wound up as the executive chef in charge of this theme park’s annual International Food & Wine Festival. Which – under Jens’ guidance – experienced some truly explosive growth.

“When I took on Food & Wine, that festival was only 35 days long and had gross revenues of just $5.5 million. When I left Disney in 2016, Food & Wine was now over 50 days long and that festival had gross revenues of $22 million,” Dahlmann admitted during a recent sit-down. “I honestly loved those 13 years I spent at Disney. When I was working there, I learned so much because I was really cooking for America.”

And it was exactly that sort of experience & expertise that Darden wanted to tap into when they lured Jens away from Mickey last year to become LongHorn Steakhouse’s new Vice President and Corporate Executive Chef. But today … Well, Dahlmann is offering tips to those of us who are thinking about cooking steak tips for the Fourth.

Photo by Jim Hill

“When you’re planning on grilling this holiday, if you’re looking for a successful result, the obvious place to start is with the quality of the meat you plan on cooking for your friends & family. If you want the best results here, don’t be cheap when you go shopping. Spend the money necessary for a fresh filet or a New York strip. Better yet a Ribeye, a nice thick one with good marbling. Because when you look at the marbling on a steak, that’s where all the flavor happens,” Jens explained. “That said, you always have to remember that — the higher you go with the quality of your meat — the less time you’re going to want that piece of meat to spend on the grill.”

And speaking of cooking … Before you even get started here, Jens suggests that you first take the time to check over all of your grilling equipment. Making sure that the grill itself is first scraped clean & then properly oiled before you then turn up the heat.

“If you’re working with a dirty grill, when you go to turn your meat, it may wind up sticking to the grill. Or maybe those spices that you’ve just so carefully coated your steak with will wind up sticking to the grill, rather than your meat,” Dahlmann continued. “Which is why it’s always worth it to spend a few minutes prior to firing up your grill properly cleaning & oiling it.”

Photo by Jim Hill

And speaking of heat … Again, before you officially get started grilling here, Jens says that it’s crucial to check your temperature gauges. Make sure that your char grill is set at 550 (so that it can then properly handle the thicker cuts of meat) and your flattop is set at 425 (so it can properly sear thinner pieces of meat).

Okay. Once you’ve bought the right cuts of quality meat, properly cleaned & oiled your grill, and then made sure that everything’s set at the right temperature (“If you can only stand to hold your hand directly over the grill for two or three seconds, that’s the right amount of heat,” Dahlmann said), it’s now time to season your steaks.

“Don’t be afraid to be bold here. You can’t be shy when it comes to seasoning your meat. You want to give it a nice coating. Largely because — if you’re using a char grill — a lot of that seasoning is just going to fall off anyway,” Jens stated. “It’s up to you to decide what sort of seasoning you want to use here. Even just some salt & pepper will enhance a steak’s flavor.”

Then – according to Dahlmann – comes the really tough part. Which is placing your meat on the grill and then fighting the urge to flip it too early or too often.

“The biggest mistake that a lot of amateur cooks make is that they flip the steak too many times. The real key to a well-cooked piece of meat is just let it be, “Jens insisted. “Of course, if you’re serving different cuts of meat at your Fourth of July feast, you always want to put your biggest thickest steak on the grill first. If you’re also cooking a New York Strip, you want to put that one on a few minutes later. But after that, just let the grill do its job and flip your meat a total of three or four times, once every three minutes or so.”

Of course, the last thing you want to do is overcook a quality piece of meat. Which is why Dahlmann suggests that – when it comes to grilling steaks – if you’re going to err, err on the side of undercooking.

“You can always put a piece of meat back on the grill if it’s slightly undercooked. When you over-cook something, all you can do then is start over with a brand-new piece of meat,” Jens said. “Just be sure that you’re using the correct cut of meat for the cooking result you’re aiming for. If someone wants a rare or medium rare steak, you should go with a thicker cut of steak. If one of your guests wants their steak cooked medium or well, it’s best to start with a thinner cut of meat.”

Photo by Jim Hill

As you can see, the folks at Longhorn take grilling steaks seriously. How seriously? Just last week at Darden Corporate Headquarters in Orlando, seven of these brand’s top grill masters (who – after weeks of regional competitions – had been culled from the 491 restaurants that make up this chain) competed for a $10,000 prize in the Company’s second annual Steak Master Series. And Dahlmann was one of the people who stood in Darden’s test kitchens, watching like a hawk as each of the contestants struggled to prepare six different dishes in just 20 minutes according to Longhorn Steakhouse’s exacting standards.

“I love that Darden does this. Recognizing the best of the best who work this restaurant,” Jens concluded. “We have a lot of people here who are incredibly knowledgeable & passionate when it comes to grilling.”

Speaking of which … If today’s story doesn’t include the exact piece of info that you need to properly grill that T-bone, just whip out your iPhone & text GRILL to 55702. Or – better yet – visit prior to firing up your grill or smoker later today. 

This article was originally published by the Huffington Post on Tuesday, July 4, 2017

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Brattleboro’s Strolling of the Heifers is a sincere if somewhat surreal way to spend a summer’s day in Vermont



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Some people travel halfway ‘around the planet so that they can then experience the excitement of the Running of the Bulls in Pamplona. If you’re more of a Slow Living enthusiast (as I am), then perhaps you should amble to Brattleboro, VT. Where – over the first weekend in June – you can then join a herd of cow enthusiasts at the annual Strolling of the Heifers.

Now in its 16th year, this three-day long event typically gets underway on Friday night in June with a combination block party / gallery walk. But then – come Saturday morning – Main Street in Brattleboro is lined with thousands of bovine fans.

Photo by Jim Hill

They’ve staked out primo viewing spots and set up camp chairs hours ahead of time. Just so these folks can then have a front row seat as this year’s crop of calves (which all come from local farms & 4-H clubs) are paraded through the streets.

Photo by Jim Hill

Viewed from curbside, Strolling of the Heifers is kind of this weird melding of a sincere small town celebration and Pasadena’s Doo Dah Parade. Meaning that – for every entry that actually acknowledged this year’s theme (i.e. “Dance to the Moosic”) — …

Photo by Jim Hill

… there was something completely random, like this parade’s synchronized shopping cart unit.

Photo by Jim Hill

And for every piece of authentic Americana (EX: That collection of antique John Deere tractors that came chugging through the city) …

Photo by Jim Hill

… there was something silly. Like – say – a woman dressed as a Holstein pushing a baby stroller through the streets. And riding in that stroller was a pig dressed in a tutu.

Photo by Jim Hill

And given that this event was being staged in the Green Mountain State & all … Well, does it really surprise you to learn that — among the groups that marched in this year’s Strolling of the Heifers – was a group of eco-friendly folks who, with their  chants of “We’re Number One !,” tried to persuade people along the parade route not to flush the toilet after they pee. Because – as it turns out – urine can be turned into fertilizer.

Photo by Jim Hill

And speaking of fertilizer … At the tail end of the parade, there was a group of dedicated volunteers who were dealing with what came out of the tail end of all those cows.

Photo by Jim Hill

This year’s Strolling of the Heifers concluded at the Brattleboro town common. Where event attendees could then get a closer look at some of the featured units in this year’s parade…

Photo by Jim Hill

… or perhaps even pet a few of the participants.

Photo by Jim Hill

But as for the 90+ calves who took part in the 2017 edition of Strolling of the Heifers, once they reached the town common, it was now time for a nosh or a nap.

Photo by Jim Hill

Elsewhere on the common, keeping with this year’s “Dance to the Moosic” theme, various musical groups performed in & around the gazebo throughout the afternoon.

Photo by Jim Hill

While just across the way – keeping with Brattleboro’s tradition of showcasing the various artisans who live & work in the local community – some pretty funky pieces were on display at the Slow Living Exposition.

Photo by Jim Hill

All in all, attending Strolling of the Heifers is a somewhat surreal but still very pleasant way to spend a summer’s day in Vermont. And that’s no bull.

Photo by Jim Hill

Well, that could be a bull. To be honest, what with the wig & all, it’s kind of hard to tell. 

This article was originally published by the Huffington Post on Sunday, June 4, 2017

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Looking to make an authentic Irish meal for Saint Patrick’s Day? If so, then chef Kevin Dundon says not to cook corned beef & cabbage



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Let’s at least start on a positive note: Celebrated chef, author & TV personality Kevin Dundon – the man that Tourism Ireland has repeatedly chosen as the Face of Irish Food – loves a lot of what happens in the United States on March 17th.

“I mean, look at what they do in Chicago on Saint Patrick’s Day. They toss all of this vegetable-based dye into the Chicago River and then paint it green for a day. That’s terrific,” Kevin said.

But then when it comes to what many Americans eat & drink on St. Paddy’s Day (i.e., a big plate of corned beef and cabbage. Which is then washed down with a mug of green beer) … Well, that’s where Dundon has to draw the line.

Irish celebrity chef Kevin Dundon displays a traditional Irish loin of bacon with Colcannon potatoes and a Dunbrody Kiss chocolate dessert. Photo by Tom Burton. Copyright Disney Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved

“Green beer? No real Irishman would be caught dead drinking that stuff,” Kevin insists. “And as for eating corned beef & cabbage … That’s not actually authentic Irish fare either. Bacon and cabbage? Sure. But corned beef & cabbage was something that the Irish only began eating after they’d come to the States to escape the Famine. And even then these Irish-Americans only began serving corned beef & cabbage to their friends & family because they had to make do with the ingredients that were available to them at that time.”

And thus begins the strange tale of how corned beef & cabbage came to be associated with the North American celebration of Saint Patrick’s Day celebration. Because – according to Dundon – beef just wasn’t all that big a part of the Irish diet back in the 19th century.

To explain: Back in the Old Country, cattle – while they were obviously highly prized for the milk & cheese that they produced – were also beasts of burden. Meaning that they were often used for ploughing the fields or for hauling heavy loads. Which is why – back then — these animals were rarely slaughtered when they were still young & healthy. If anything, land owners liked to put a herd of cattle on display out in one of their pastures because that was then a sign to their neighbors that this farm was prosperous.

“Whereas pork … Well, everybody raised pigs back then. Which is why pork was a staple of the Irish diet rather than beef,” Dundon continued.

So if that’s what people actually ate back in the Old Country, how then did corned beef & cabbage come to be so strongly associated with Saint Patrick’s Day in the States.? That largely had to do with where the Irish wound up living after they arrived in the New World.

“When the Irish first arrived in America following the Great Famine, a lot of them wound up living in the inner city right alongside the Germans & the Jews, who were also recent immigrants to the States. And while that farm-fresh pork that the Irish loved wasn’t readily available, there was brisket. Which the Irish could then cure by first covering this piece of meat with corn kernel-sized pieces of rock salt – that’s how it came to be called corned beef. Because of the sizes of the pieces of rock salt that were used in the curing process – and then placing all that in a pot of water with other spices to soak for a few days.”

And as for the cabbage portion of corned beef & cabbage … Well, according to Kevin, in addition to buying their meat from the kosher delis in their neighborhood, the Irish would also frequent the stores that the German community shopped in. Where – thanks to their love of sauerkraut (i.e., pickled cabbage) – there was always a ready supply of cabbage to be had.

“So when you get right down to it, it was the American melting pot that led to corned beef & cabbage being found in the Irish-American cooking pot,” Dundon continued. “Since they couldn’t find or didn’t have easy access to the exact same ingredients that they had back in Ireland, Irish-Americans made do with what they could find in the immediate vicinity. And what they made was admittedly tasty. But it’s not actually authentic Irish fare.”

Mind you, what Kevin serves at Raglan Road Irish Pub and Restaurant at Disney Springs (which – FYI – Orlando Magazine voted as the area’s best restaurant back in 2014) is nothing if not authentic. Dundon and his team at this acclaimed gastropub pride themselves on making traditional Irish fare and then contemporized it.

Copyright Disney Enterprises, Inc. All rights reserved

“Take – for example – what we serve here instead of corned beef & cabbage. Again, because it was pork – rather than beef – that was the true staple of the Irish diet back then, what we offer instead is a loin of bacon that has been glazed with Irish Mist. That then comes with colcannon potatoes. Which is this traditional Irish dish that’s made up of mashed potato that have had some cabbage & bacon mixed through it,” Kevin enthused. “This heavenly ham – that’s what we actually call this traditional Irish dish at Raglan Road, Kevin’s Heavenly Ham – also includes some savory cabbage with a parsley cream sauce as well as a raisin cider jus. It’s simple food. But because of the basic ingredients – and that’s the real secret of Irish cuisine. That our ingredients are so strong – the flavors just pop off the plate.”

Which brings us to the real challenge that Dundon and the Raglan Road team face every day. Making sure that they actually have all of the ingredients necessary to make this traditional-yet-contemporized Irish fare to those folks who frequent this Walt Disney World favorite.

“Take – for example – the fish we serve here. We only used cold water fish. Salmon, mussels and haddock that have been hauled out of the Atlantic, the ocean that America and Ireland share,” Kevin stated. “Not that there’s anything wrong with warm water fish. It’s just that … Well, it doesn’t have the same structure. It’s a softer fish, which doesn’t really fit the parameters of Irish cuisine. And if you’re going to serve authentic food, you have to be this dedicated when it comes to sourcing your ingredients.

Copyright Mitchell Beazley. All rights reserved

And if you’re thinking of perhaps trying to serve an authentic Irish meal this year, rather than once again serving corned beef & cabbage at your Saint Patrick’s Day Feast … Well, back in September of last year, Mitchell Beazley published “The Raglan Road Cookbook: Inside America’s Favorite Irish Pub.” This 296-page hardcover not only includes the recipe for Kevin’s Heavenly Ham but also it tells the tale of how this now-world-renown restaurant wound up being built in Orlando.

On the other hand, if you happen to have to the luck of the Irish and are actually down at The Walt Disney World Resort right now, it’s worth noting that Raglan Road is right in the middle of its Mighty St. Patrick’s Day Festival. This four day-long event – which includes Irish bands and professional dancers – stretches through Sunday night. And in addition to all that authentic Irish fare that Dundon and his team are cooking up, you also sample the fine selection of beers & cocktails that this establishment’s four distinct antique bars (each of which are more than 130 years old and were imported directly from Ireland) will be serving. Just – As ucht Dé (That’s “For God’s Sake” in Gaelic) – don’t make the mistake of asking the bartender there for a mug of green beer.

“Why would anyone willingly drink something like that?,” Dundon laughed. “I mean, just imagine what their washroom will look like the morning after.”

This article was originally published by the Huffington Post on Friday, March 17, 2017

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