Theme Parks & Themed Entertainment

The Disneyland that might have been: Walt’s New Orleans Square apartment

It was the showplace that the “Old Mousetro” never got the chance to show off. On a break from SIGGRAPH, Jim Hill quickly walks JHM readers through the layout of what was originally supposed to have been the Disney family’s home-away-from-home at the Anaheim theme park.

Published

20 years ago

August 9, 2004

Jim Hill

Okay. I know. Most of you Disney dweebs out there already know about the hidden history of the Disney Gallery. Why this second story shop has such a commanding view of Disneyland’s Rivers of America. Why this New Orleans Square retail space is so beautifully laid out, so elegantly detailed.

Yes, the space that the Disney Gallery currently occupies was never actually supposed to house a store / art gallery. Had Walt Disney not tragically passed away in December of 1966, this area was to become a luxurious private apartment for the Disney family to use. Something to replace the cozy but small space over Main Street U.S.A.’s fire station where Walt would sometimes spend his weekends entertaining family & friends.

Yes, I’m sure that some of you hardcore Disneyana fans already know that plans for Walt’s new New Orleans Square apartment were far enough along that Imagineering veteran Dorothea Redmond had already put together some production paintings to show the Disney family about how she’d like to try & decorate the place. You can actually see this paintings in the hallway, right next to where Walt’s smoking room was supposed to have gone.

What’s that? You don’t know where Walt’s smoking room was supposed to have gone? Here. Let me quickly walk you through how the Disney family’s New Orleans Square apartment was supposed to have been laid out.

First & foremost … You can forget all about those stairs that lead up to the Disney Gallery today. Those were ever never part of the plan for Walt’s apartment. They were actually added well after the fact, back in the late 1980s. Back when the Imagineers decided to open this second floor space over the “Pirates of the Caribbean” load/unload area to the public.

No, if everything had only gone according to plan and Walt had actually lived long enough to get the chance to occupy this space, the Disney family would have entered their posh new New Orleans Square digs through a well-out-of-sight-of-the-guests backstage entrance. They could have made their way to this second floor apartment by walking up a set of stairs and/or taking the elegant elevator in Club 33’s lobby.

“So if there were no stairs, what’s the deal with the lobby / entrance area at the Disney Gallery?,” you ask. Actually, this area was originally supposed to have been the Disney family’s formal living room.

Where Walt & Lillian would have entertained guests and/or played with their grand children.

Of course, given that Walt always wanted to be a gracious host (And understanding — of course — that not everyone enjoyed the smell of cigarette or cigar smoke), Disney had a well-ventilated smoking room built right off of the formal living room. It’s the first door that you’ll find in that small hallway to your left.

That second door … Well, that was supposed to have been a bedroom that was especially built for Walt’s grandchildren. Which is why the handle on this door is so low. Walt deliberately had it designed that way, so that tiny hands wouldn’t have all that much trouble opening & closing this door.

Of course, the grandparents wouldn’t want to be all that far away from their grandkids. Which is why Walt & Lillian’s master bedroom was located right next door. Step through the sliding door out onto the patio, then continue to the left. You’ll find the room that I’m talking about.

The room is currently housing some pieces for the Disney Gallery’s “Haunted Mansion” exhibition. Including some of the original macquettes that Joyce Carlson sculpted for the model of the ride as well as some faux gravestones. But what I’d like you to notice (the next time that you’re up in this space) is all the outlets in the room.

“What’s the deal with all the outlets?,” you query. Well … You have to understand that Walt loved to read in bed and Lillian loved to redecorate. And it always used to make Walt sore to come home to their house in Holmby Hills & find that — once again — Lillian had rearranged their bedroom. Moving their bed to some spot where there was no outlets nearby. Which (of course) made it rather difficult to plug in a reading lamp. Which also made it kind of difficult for Walt to review any scripts before finally hitting the hay.

(Which — based on what I’ve heard about Lillian Disney over the years — may have been the whole point of this constant rearranging thing.

Mrs. Disney reportedly always felt that Walt worked too hard. Which is why she was always trying to get her husband to relax while he was at home. And — obviously — you can’t work where there isn’t light. Crafty woman, that Lillian Disney. Anyway …)

Well, when Walt had the Imagineers drawing the plans for his new Disneyland apartment, Disney was determined to thwart his wife. Which is why he ordered that electrical outlets be placed in every wall of the master bedroom. So that — no matter where Lillian had the bedroom set moved to — Walt would still be able to plug in a reading lamp.

Okay. That’s enough insight into what went on in Walt & Lillian’s bedroom. Why don’t we head across the way — through the outdoor patio & through the formal living room — into the lounge.

Today, this area is where the cast members who work at the Disney Gallery ring up your sales. They stand behind an elegantly appointed countertop and — after hammering away at cash register — cheerily hand you your poster, coffee mug, t-shirt, etc.

However, were you to walk behind that counter, you’d find that the Disney Gallery’s two cash registers are actually seated on top of two sinks. Yep, this was where Walt’s wet bar was actually going to be located. (FYI: One of the Disney Gallery’s other curios [And it’s something that the cast members who work here still use today] is a virtually prehistoric miniature refrigerator. These things were actually quite rare back in the 1960s. But Walt insisted on having one installed in his private apartment’s wet bar. It’s just too bad that the guy never got to use and/or enjoy any of this snazzy equipment.)

Of course, once Mr. Disney had made you that mint julep, you’d — of course — want to sip it out on the verandah. So you’d step right through that sliding glass door and find yourself looking out over the Rivers of America, as the crowd hustles by below you. (Walt was said to really be looking forward to using this particular feature of his New Orleans Square apartment. Why for? Because it would have allowed him to indulge in one of his real passions — I.E. people watching — without being observed.)

What’s that ringing sound? Oh, it’s the dinner bell. Disney’s family and friend would then re-enter the lounge area. And then … Well, if it was a large group of folks that Walt was looking to entertain, he’d lead them up the hallway (where you now find all of the Disney Gallery’s print-on-demand posters) out into Club 33’s kitchen area. They’d then continue on into the Trophy Room. Where — over the course of dinner — perhaps that audio animatronic vulture that looming over the doorway would suddenly come to life. And — in Wally Boag’s voice — begin heckling some of the members of Walt’s dinner party.

If — on the other hand — it was a smaller, more intimate gathering …

Well, then Walt & Lillian would then lead their guests and/or grandchildren into the apartment’s formal dining room. Which is the room where you can now find Rolly Crump’s “Museum of the Weird” sketches and/or the costumes from Rob Minkoff’s “Haunted Mansion” movie on display.

Of course, given that Walt wasn’t really that big a fan of messes, he had recessed sliding doors built into the walls of the formal dining room. So that — once the meal was over — he and his guests could retire to the lounge. And — by pulling closed the dining room’s sliding doors behind them — they’d then be spared the ordeal of having to stare at all those dirty dishes.

Yes, Walt’s New Orleans Square apartment would have been quite a showplace. Not overly ostentatious, mind you. But elegant & comfortable.

In a style fitting a man of Walt Disney’s stature.

If everything had just gone according to plan, this wonderful new space would have been ready to occupy by the Summer of 1967. Unfortunately, Walt passed away in December of 1966. And — after that — the Disney family kind of lost all enthusiasm for staying inside the Anaheim theme park overnight. That was something that Walt had enjoyed doing. And — now that he was gone — it was just too sad, too depressing to repeat this ritual without the family patriarch presiding over the proceedings.

Which is why this space over “The Pirates of the Caribbean” ‘s load/inload area was never really used as it was intended.

Still, I hope you folks enjoyed this brief glimpse of a bit of Disneyland that might have been. (Special thanks to D. of the Disneyland Gallery staff. Who — this past weekend — was so gracious as to give Nancy & I a special tour of this Disneyland gem and reveal much of the hidden history of this part of the park.)

Your thoughts?

Theme Parks & Themed Entertainment

Disney and Macy’s 90-Year Thanksgiving Day Parade Partnership: From Mickey’s First Balloon to Minnie’s Big Debut

Published

4 weeks ago

November 15, 2024

Jim Hill

Now, folks, if you’re like me, Thanksgiving just wouldn’t be the same without a coffee, a cozy seat, and Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade on the TV. And if you’re really like me, you’re watching for one thing: Disney balloons floating down 34th Street. Ever wondered how Mickey, Donald, and soon Minnie Mouse found their way into this beloved New York tradition? Well, grab your popcorn because we’re diving into nearly 90 years of Disney’s partnership with Macy’s.

The Very First Parade and the Early Days of Balloons

The Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade goes way back to 1924, but if you can believe it, balloons weren’t part of the festivities until 1927. That first lineup included Felix the Cat, a dragon, and a toy soldier, all towering above the crowds. Back then, Macy’s had a pretty wild idea to end the parade: they would let the balloons drift off into the sky, free as birds. But this wasn’t just Macy’s feeling generous. Each balloon had a message attached, offering a $100 reward (about $1,800 in today’s dollars) for anyone who returned it to the flagship store on 34th Street.

And here’s where it gets interesting. This tradition carried on for a few years, right up until 1932, when Felix the Cat almost took down a plane flying over New York City! Imagine that—you’re flying into LaGuardia, and suddenly, there’s a 60-foot balloon drifting toward your wing. Needless to say, that was the end of Macy’s “fly away” stunt, and from then on, the balloons have stayed firmly grounded after the parade ends.

1934: Mickey Mouse Floats In, and Disney Joins the Parade

It was 1934 when Mickey Mouse finally made his grand debut in the Macy’s parade. Rumor has it Walt Disney himself collaborated with Macy’s on the design, and by today’s standards, that first Mickey balloon was a bit of a rough cut. This early Mickey had a hotdog-shaped body, and those oversized ears gave him a slightly lopsided look. But no one seemed to mind. Mickey was there, larger than life, floating down the streets of New York, and the crowd loved him.

Mickey wasn’t alone that year. He was joined by Pluto, Horace Horsecollar, and even the Big Bad Wolf and Practical Pig from The Three Little Pigs, making it a full Disney lineup for the first time. Back then, Disney wasn’t yet the entertainment powerhouse we know today, so for Walt, getting these characters in the parade meant making a deal. Macy’s required its star logo to be featured on each Disney balloon—a small concession that set the stage for Disney’s long-standing presence in the parade.

Donald Duck in Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade – Donaldism

Duck Joins and Towers Over Mickey

A year later, in 1935, Macy’s introduced Donald Duck to the lineup, and here’s where things got interesting. Mickey may have been the first Disney character to float through the parade, but Donald made a huge splash—literally. His balloon was an enormous 60 feet tall and 65 feet long, towering over Mickey’s 40-foot frame. Donald quickly became a fan favorite, appearing in the lineup for several years before being retired.

Fast-forward a few decades, and Donald was back for a special appearance in 1984 to celebrate his 50th birthday. Macy’s dug the balloon out of storage, re-inflated it, and sent Donald down 34th Street once again, bringing a bit of nostalgia to the holiday crowd.

A Somber Parade in 2001

Now, one of my most memorable trips to the parade was in 2001, just weeks after the 9/11 attacks. Nancy and I, along with our friends, headed down to New York, and the mood was something I’ll never forget. We watched the start of the parade from Central Park West, but before that, we went to the Museum of Natural History the night before to see the balloons being inflated. They were covered in massive cargo nets, with sandbags holding them down. It’s surreal to see these enormous balloons anchored down before they’re set free.

That year, security was intense, with police lining the streets, and then-Mayor Rudy Giuliani rode on the Big Apple float to roaring applause. People cheered his name, waving and shouting as he passed. It felt like the entire city had turned out to show their resilience. Even amidst all the heightened security and tension, seeing those balloons—brought a bit of joy back to the city.

Balloon Prep: From New Jersey’s MetLife Stadium to California’s D23 Expo

Each year before the parade, Macy’s holds a rehearsal event known as Balloon Fest at MetLife Stadium in New Jersey. This is where handlers get their first crack at guiding the balloons, practicing with their parade masters, and learning the ropes—literally. It’s an entire production unto itself, with dozens of people rehearsing to make sure these enormous inflatables glide smoothly down the streets of New York on parade day.

In 2015, Macy’s took the balloon show on the road, bringing their Buzz Lightyear balloon out to California for the D23 Expo. I was lucky enough to be there, and watching Buzz get inflated piece by piece in the Anaheim Convention Center parking lot was something to behold. Each section was filled with helium in stages, and when they got around to Buzz’s lower half, well, there were more than a few gas-related jokes from the crowd.

These balloons seem to have a personality all their own, and seeing one like Buzz come to life up close—even outside of New York—had all the excitement and anticipation of the real deal.

Mickey’s Comeback as a Bandleader and Sailor Mickey

After a long hiatus, Mickey Mouse made his return to the Macy’s parade in 2000, this time sporting a new bandleader outfit. Nine years later, in 2009, Sailor Mickey joined the lineup, promoting Disney Cruise Line with a nautical twist. Over the past two decades, Disney has continued to enchant parade-goers with characters like Buzz Lightyear in 2008 and Olaf from Frozen in 2017. These balloons keep Disney’s iconic characters front and center, drawing in both longtime fans and new viewers.

But ever wonder what happens to the balloons after they reach the end of 34th Street? They don’t just disappear. Each balloon is carefully deflated, rolled up like a massive piece of laundry, and packed into storage bins. From there, they’re carted back through the Lincoln Tunnel to Macy’s Parade Studio in New Jersey, where they await their next flight.

Macy’s Disney Celebration at Hollywood Studios

In 1992, Macy’s took the spirit of the parade down to Disney-MGM Studios in Orlando. After that year’s parade, several balloons—including Santa Goofy, Kermit the Frog, and Betty Boop—were transported to Hollywood Studios, re-inflated, and anchored along New York Street as part of a holiday display. Visitors could walk through this “Macy’s New York Christmas” setup and see the balloons up close, right in the middle of the park. While this display only ran for one season, it paved the way for the Osborne Family Spectacle of Dancing Lights, which became a holiday staple at the park for years to come.

Minnie Mouse’s Long-Awaited Debut in 2024

This year, Minnie Mouse will finally join the parade, making her long-overdue debut. Macy’s is rolling out the red carpet for Minnie’s arrival with special pop-up shops across the country, where fans can find exclusive Minnie ears, blown-glass ornaments, T-shirts, and more to celebrate her first appearance in the Thanksgiving Day Parade.

For those lucky enough to catch the parade this year, you’ll see Minnie take her first float down 34th Street, decked out in her iconic red bow and polka-dot dress. Macy’s and Disney are also unveiling a new Disney Cruise Line float honoring all eight ships, including the latest, the Disney Treasure.

As always, I’ll be watching from my favorite chair, coffee in hand, as Minnie makes her grand entrance. The 98th annual Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade airs live on NBC, and it’s a tradition you won’t want to miss—whether you’re on 34th Street or tuning in from home.

Theme Parks & Themed Entertainment

Disney’s Forgotten Halloween Event: The Original Little Monsters on Main Street

Published

3 months ago

September 22, 2024

Jim Hill

When most Disney fans think of Halloween in the parks, they immediately picture Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party at Walt Disney World or the Oogie Boogie Bash at Disneyland Resort. But before those events took over as the must-attend spooky celebrations, there was a little-known event at Disneyland called Little Monsters on Main Street. And its origins? Well, they go all the way back to the 1980s, during a time when America was gripped by fear—the Satanic Panic.

You see, back in the mid-1980s, parents were terrified that Halloween had become dangerous. Urban legends about drug-laced candy or razor blades hidden in apples were widespread, and many parents felt they couldn’t let their kids out of sight for even a moment. Halloween, which was once a carefree evening of trick-or-treating in the neighborhood, had suddenly become a night filled with anxiety.

This is where Disneyland’s Little Monsters on Main Street came in.

The Origins of Little Monsters on Main Street

Back in 1989, the Disneyland Community Action Team—later known as the VoluntEARS—decided to create a safe, nostalgic Halloween experience for Cast Members and their families. Many schools in the Anaheim area were struggling to provide basic school supplies to students, and the VoluntEARS saw an opportunity to combine a safe Halloween with a charitable cause. Thus, Little Monsters on Main Street was born.

This event was not open to the general public. Only Disneyland Cast Members could purchase tickets, which were initially priced at just $5 each. Cast Members could bring their kids—but only as many as were listed as dependents with HR. And even then, the park put a cap on attendance: the first event was limited to just 1,000 children.

A Unique Halloween Experience

Little Monsters on Main Street wasn’t just another Halloween party. It was designed to give kids a safe, fun environment to enjoy trick-or-treating, much like the good old days. On Halloween night in 1989, kids in costume wandered through Disneyland with their pillowcases, visiting 20 different trick-or-treat stations. They also had the chance to ride a few of their favorite Fantasyland attractions, all after the park had closed to the general public.

The event was run entirely by the VoluntEARS—about 200 of them—who built and set up all the trick-or-treat stations themselves. They arrived at Disneyland before the park closed and, as soon as the last guest exited, they began setting up stations across Main Street, Adventureland, Frontierland, Fantasyland, and Tomorrowland. The event ran from 7:30 to 9:30 p.m., and by the time the last pillowcase-wielding kid left, the VoluntEARS cleaned everything up, making sure the park was ready for the next day’s operations.

It wasn’t just candy and rides, though. The event featured unique entertainment, like a Masquerade Parade down Main Street, U.S.A., where kids could show off their costumes. And get this—Disneyland even rigged up a Cast Member dressed as a witch to fly from the top of the Matterhorn to Frontierland on the same wire that Tinker Bell uses during the fireworks. Talk about a magical Halloween experience!

The Haunted Mansion “Tip-Toe” Tour

Perhaps one of the most memorable parts of Little Monsters on Main Street was the special “tip-toe tour” of the Haunted Mansion. Now, Disneyland’s Haunted Mansion can be a pretty scary attraction for younger kids, so during this event, Disney left the doors to the Stretching Room and Portrait Gallery wide open. This allowed kids to walk through and peek at the Haunted Mansion’s spooky interiors without actually having to board the Doom Buggies. For those brave enough to ride, they could, of course, take the full trip through the Haunted Mansion—or they could take the “chicken exit” and leave, no harm done.

Growing Success and a Bigger Event

Thanks to the event’s early success, Little Monsters on Main Street grew in size. By 1991, the attendance cap had been raised to 2,000 kids, and Disneyland added more activities like magic shows and hayrides. They also extended the event’s hours, allowing kids to enjoy the festivities until 10:30 p.m.

In 2002, the event moved over to Disney California Adventure, where it could accommodate even more kids—up to 5,000 in its later years. The name was also shortened to just Little Monsters, since it was no longer held on Main Street. This safe, family-friendly Halloween event continued for several more years, with the last mention of Little Monsters appearing in the Disneyland employee newsletter in 2008. Though some Cast Members recall the event continuing until 2012, it eventually made way for Disney’s more public-facing Halloween events.

From Little Monsters to Mickey’s Not-So-Scary and Oogie Boogie Bash

Starting in the early 2000s, Disney began realizing the potential of Halloween-themed after-hours events for the general public. These early versions of Mickey’s Halloween Party and Mickey’s Halloween Treat eventually evolved into today’s Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party and Oogie Boogie Bash. Unfortunately, this also marked the end of the intimate, Cast Member-exclusive Little Monsters event, but it paved the way for the large-scale Halloween celebrations we know and love today.

While it’s bittersweet to see Little Monsters on Main Street fade into Disney history, its legacy lives on through these modern Halloween parties. And even though Cast Members now receive discounted tickets to Mickey’s Not-So-Scary and Oogie Boogie Bash, the special charm of an event created specifically for Disney’s employees and their families remains something worth remembering.

**The Merch: A Piece of Little Monsters History**

For Disney collectors, the exclusive merchandise created for Little Monsters on Main Street is still out there. You can find pins, name tags, and themed pillowcases on sites like eBay. One of the coolest collectibles is a 1997 cloisonné pin set featuring Huey, Dewey, and Louie dressed as characters from Hercules. Other sets paid tribute to the Main Street Electrical Parade and Pocahontas, while the pillowcases were uniquely designed for each year of the event.

While Little Monsters on Main Street may be gone, it’s a fascinating piece of Disneyland history that played a huge role in shaping the Halloween celebrations we enjoy at Disney parks today.

Want to hear more behind-the-scenes stories like this? Be sure to check out I Want That Too, where Lauren and I dive deep into the history behind Disney’s most beloved attractions, events, and of course, merchandise!

Theme Parks & Themed Entertainment

The Story of Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party: From One Night to a Halloween Family Tradition

Published

3 months ago

September 7, 2024

Jim Hill

The spooky season is already in full swing at Disney parks on both coasts. On August 9th, the first of 38 Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party (MNSSHP) nights for 2024 kicked off at Florida’s Magic Kingdom. Meanwhile, over at Disney California Adventure, the Oogie Boogie Bash began on August 23rd and is completely sold out across its 27 dates this year.

Looking back, it’s incredible to think about how these Halloween-themed events have grown. But for Disney, the idea of charging guests for Halloween fun wasn’t always a given. In fact, when the very first Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party debuted on October 31, 1995, it was a modest one-night-only affair. Compare that to the near month-long festivities we see today, and it’s clear that Disney’s approach to Halloween has evolved considerably.

A Not-So-Scary Beginning

I was fortunate enough to attend that very first MNSSHP back in 1995, along with my then 18-month-old daughter Alice and her mom, Michelle. Tickets were a mere $16.95 (I know, can you imagine?), and we pushed Alice around in her sturdy Emmaljunga stroller—Swedish-built and about the size of a small car. Cast Members, charmed by her cuteness, absolutely loaded us up with candy. By the end of the night, we had about 30 pounds of fun-sized candy bars, making that push up to the monorail a bit more challenging.

Mickey’s Halloween Treat 1996 – Photo: Disney

This Halloween event was Disney’s response to the growing popularity of Universal Studios Florida’s own Halloween hard ticket event, which started in 1991 as “Fright Nights” before being rebranded as “Halloween Horror Nights” the following year. Universal’s gamble on a horror-themed experience helped salvage what had been a shaky opening for their park, and by 1993, Halloween Horror Nights was a seven-night event, with ticket prices climbing as high as $35. Universal had stumbled upon a goldmine, and Disney took notice.

A Different Approach

Now, here’s where Disney’s unique strategy comes into play. While Universal embraced the gory, scare-filled world of horror, Disney knew that wasn’t their brand. Instead of competing directly with blood and jump-scares, Disney leaned into what they did best: creating magical, family-friendly experiences.

Thus, Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party was born. The focus was on fun and whimsy, not fear. Families could bring their small children without worrying about them being terrified by a chainsaw-wielding maniac around the next corner. This event wasn’t just a Halloween party—it was an extension of the Disney magic that guests had come to expect from the parks.

Disney had some experience with seasonal after-hours events, most notably Mickey’s Very Merry Christmas Party, which had started in 1983. But the Halloween party was different, as the Magic Kingdom wasn’t yet decked out in Halloween decor the way it is today. Disney had to create a spooky (but not too spooky) atmosphere using temporary props, fog machines, and, of course, lots of candy.

A key addition to that first event? The debut of the Headless Horseman, who made his eerie appearance in Liberty Square, riding a massive black Percheron. It wasn’t as elaborate as the Boo-to-You Parade we see today, but it marked the beginning of a beloved Disney Halloween tradition.

A Modest Start but a Big Future

That first MNSSHP in 1995 was seen as a trial run. As Disney World spokesman Greg Albrecht told the Orlando Sentinel, “If it’s successful, we’ll do it again.” And while attendance was sparse that night, there was clearly potential. By 1997, the event expanded to two nights, and by 1999, Mickey’s Not-So-Scary Halloween Party had grown into a multi-night celebration with a full-fledged parade. Today, in 2024, it’s a staple of the fall season at Walt Disney World, offering 38 nights of trick-or-treating, character meet-and-greets, and special entertainment.

Universal’s Influence

It’s interesting to reflect on how Disney’s Halloween event might never have existed without the competition from Universal. Just as “The Wizarding World of Harry Potter” forced Disney to step up their game with “Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge,” Universal’s success with Halloween Horror Nights likely spurred Disney into action with MNSSHP. The friendly rivalry between the two parks has continually pushed both to offer more to their guests, and we’re all better off because of it.

So the next time you find yourself trick-or-treating through the Magic Kingdom, watching the Headless Horseman gallop by, or marveling at the seasonal fireworks, take a moment to appreciate how this delightful tradition came to be—all thanks to a little competition and Disney’s commitment to creating not-so-scary magic.

For more Disney history and behind-the-scenes stories, check out the latest episodes of the I Want That Too podcast on the Jim Hill Media network.